Good afternoon,

I am looking for a Jaguar Specialist that can travel to Farnborough, Surrey, to inspect an XJS 6.0 before purchase.

I already called Surrey Jag Centre, but they don't do outcalls, and the seller works every day and is unable to drive anywhere for an inspection.

Thanks in advance. Tommaso

 

Tommaso,

You could try Peter Bell in Guildford and see if he'll do it. (It's on the Surrey / Hants border, but Farnborough is in Hants)

Car Inspections | Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club (jec.org.uk)

Also, I had sent you an email some days ago but have been getting bouncebacks that the email address is undeliverable. Can you drop me a PM and just confirm your email address again

Cheers

Paul

 

Thanks, Paul! ... and I thought that you were a tea totaller upset by my offer of good wine 🤷🏻‍♂️😄 I'll PM you. Alex found me what send a really good XJS within budget!

 

Update.

The garage that Paul recommended was unwilling to inspect on out-call basis, but recommended one John Vines at https://www.classiccarinspector.co.uk/ who is willing.

He's not a Jaguar specialist and I was wondering if there is a list of known faults (as rust around the windscreen) that an inspection can report on, if pointed to look for them. I appreciate that many known faults cannot be found with an inspection, but I would appreciate a list of what can be found. I searched this forum and could not find one. Any idea?

Inspection will be the week after Feb 16th. It's a 6.0, cardinal red, 76,000 miles, within the budget, all recent MOTs seem clean and good, seller had the car only one year but has done some regular maintenance and - claims - no known faults and absolutely no rust.

Tommaso

PS: Paul, I sent you another PM with phone number and email, did you receive it? We seem to have PM messages problems...

 

Inspection points, you MUST have it on a ramp:

• wheel arches, NB the parts attaching to the sills
• where radius arms attach to the body in front of the rear axle
• front floors (carpets must be lifted) from interior and exterior
• Exhaust tunnel sides and bottom corners
• between door rear and start of wheelarch
• knock VERY attentively at windscreen scuttle in front of wwindscreen corners. You cannot see it but you MAY hear it. Paul has horrifying photos of what can be beneath the paint.
• VERY important: behind the front shock absorber strengtheners. Look inside the engine bay having removed the air boxes, at the sheet metal below the shock absorber top when it goes down to the chassis rail
• VERY important: there is a cross member that runs under the radiator, it is covered below by the undertray; BUT it rusts out notoriously along the top. You can JUST get access to it from behind the undertray and using a piece of metal with a right angle bend in it, the R/A bit being about a cm long, run it along the crossmeber top and probe for rust holes, and rust.
• Door corners
• ANY bubbling up under the paint anywhere indicates rust
• front and back of sills, requires careful knocking to detect
• Front wheel arches where they join the under-bumper piece that curves round to the lower grille
• Front and rear subframes and associated rubber parts; you are looking for rubber cracking and perishing on the rubber and rust on the subframes
• leaking oil anywhere on the engine but particularly rear bottom by the gearbox join.
• leaking oil on or around the differential
• look for evidence of greasing having been done on the rear axle
• look for any weeping calipers and cracked brake flexibles, also discs being in good condition
• test the air conditioning in ALL modes and temperatures. This can be costly anto repair if not working and certain parts are NLA.
• look at coolant colour and condition, it should be clear, the proper colour and not rusty or dirty
• hoses and drive belt condition
• warm up engine, drive it, and look for steady coolant temps and even tickover
• ensure engine bay wiring is not brittle
• inspect tyre age markings
• ensure no fuel smells in the boot before starting the car and afterwards
• look at colour of autobox fluid, it should be clear and pink
• check all electrics work on dashboard switches

Cheers

 

Brilliant! Thank you! I sent this list to John Vines and I am waiting for a confirmation as we may not have a ramp available.

 

Tommaso,

Great list from Greg! I've added a few more comments in Red below

Cheers

Paul


• Wheel arches, NB the parts attaching to the sills
• Where radius arms attach to the body in front of the rear axle. Also check inside the car in the floorpan in this area.
• Check the seatbelt mount points on the floorpan
• Front floors (carpets must be lifted) from interior and exterior. Particularly look for rust at the front edge of the floorpan where it meets the bulkhead. And the joint of the floorpans at the side to the sill area. Check for any damp in the foam insulation under the front and rear carpets. This can be indicative of screen corrosion.
• Exhaust tunnel sides and bottom corners between door rear and start of wheelarch
• Knock VERY attentively at windscreen scuttle in front of windscreen corners. You cannot see it but you MAY hear it. Paul has horrifying photos of what can be beneath the paint. If there is ANY small bubble of rust where the windscreen chromes adjoin the scuttle panel, then there will be MUCH worse rust underneath and probably in the windscreen flange. Even if you can’t see a bubble of rust, there may be a problem under the windscreen chromes.
• VERY important: behind the front shock absorber strengtheners. Look inside the engine bay having removed the air boxes, at the sheet metal below the shock absorber top when it goes down to the chassis rail
• Door corners & lower edge of doorskin generally
• Look for any bubbling of rust in the outer corners of the rear windscreen by the buttresses
• ANY bubbling up under the paint anywhere indicates rust
• Front and back of sills, requires careful knocking to detect
Also look underneath where the curved sill panel then becomes a short vertical section. This is spot-welded along its length to a vertical return of the floorpan. Look all along on the inboard edge of this join for rust.
• Front wheel arches where they join the under-bumper piece that curves round to the lower grille. This can be difficult to examine on a big-bumper car.
• Front and rear subframes and associated rubber parts; you are looking for rubber cracking and perishing on the rubber and rust on the subframes. On this car, it’s really important to look at both the front & rear subframes. Both of them were referenced as corroding in 2012 and again in 2016. So what has been done to them to remedy this? Have they been removed and fully refurbished?
• Also, springs have been referenced as corroding for some years. Check the state of all six springs & shocks.
• Leaking oil anywhere on the engine but particularly rear bottom by the gearbox join.
• Leaking oil on or around the differential
• Look for evidence of greasing having been done on the rear axle. There are greasable UJs on the rear axle.
• Look for any weeping calipers and cracked brake flexibles, also discs being in good condition
• Test the air conditioning in ALL modes and temperatures. This can be costly to repair if not working and certain parts are NLA.
• Look at coolant colour and condition, it should be clear, the proper colour and not rusty or dirty
• Hoses and drive belt condition. Also look at the state of the fins in the lower third of the rad. They are prone to corroding. Also look for debris trapped between the radiator, aircon condenser and oil cooler.
• Look for any oil on connections to oil cooler. Any leaks here will probably require a new cooler as it is almost impossible to remove the pipes without destroying the cooler connections.
• Warm up engine, drive it, and look for steady coolant temps
• Ensure engine bay wiring is not brittle
• Inspect tyre age markings. Also tyres have been referenced in recent MoTs as unevenly wearing. Check condition of tyres and track rod ends, and also steering rack bushes
• Ensure no fuel smells in the boot before starting the car and afterwards
• Look at colour of autobox fluid, it should be clear and pink
• Check all electrics work on dashboard switches
• Check for any cracks or damage in the headlights or rear lights. These are NLA and used replacements are very expensive.
• Carefully look for alignment of chrome strips on top of bumpers. Any misalignment can indicate accident damage. It’s difficult to see, but try and check for rust on underside of those chrome strips. It’s very expensive to find used replacements.
• Check condition of seats. They look very clean. Has the leather been repainted?
• Are the door mirrors slightly wobbly? This happens when the shafts seize.

• Check the basic operation of the ABS pump & accumulator as follows:
o Turn off ignition
o Press brake pedal 25-30 times. This will discharge the accumulated brake pressure. The pedal should now be extremely hard.
o DO NOT touch brake pedal in next step
o Turn on ignition and listen to ABS pump running. Time how many seconds it runs for – expected 25-45 seconds.
o Wait until ABS pump stops running
o Press brake pedal once, Does pump cut in?
o Press again. How many presses before pump cuts in?

• Look through Service documentation and note frequency of fluid changes of:
o Engine Oil & Filter
o Autobox fluid & filter
o Diff Fluid
o Coolant
o Brake fluid (really important that this has been changed in last 2 years)

 

Hi Tommaso

Why not ask the Owner if he would have any objection to having the Car MOT Tested while you are present (you could even offer to pay for the MOT) even if the Car already has a Long MOT

Because at least that way the Car will be up on a Car Lift and so providing the Garage has no objection, you could have a good look round her, while she is up in the Air, or ask the MOT Testing Guy to have a good look round the Car, for any possible issues that could occur later on

This could be a LOT Cheaper than having a Third Party do an inspection for you, as they won't want to be responsible for anything they missed, if a fault develops later on, MOT Test about £50 vs Independent inspection £100+ which could be a waste of money, if he is unfamiliar with the XJS

The Single biggest reason for having the Car MOT'd (even if She already has an existing Long MOT) is to Check on something that hasn't been mentioned Yet and that is the Hand Brake and in particular 'The Hand Brake Brake Pads'

Hardly worth a mention on a Normal 'Daily Driver' But on an XJS 'its a Very Big Deal!

The Reason being the Hand Brake 'Brake Pads' are Tiny! about 1in X 1in and they are bonded to a Backing Pad, which is then Bolted to the Hand Brake Calipers, that work when the Handbrake Lever is Pulled on

Not really a problem in Normal use but The 'Rolling Road' that they use for The MOT Test, has a reputation for Tearing the Handbrake Brake Pads off their Backing Pads, as some MOT Testers who don't know any better, may just pull on the Handbrake Hard to Test it

And in doing so the Handbrake Brake Pads get ripped off their Backing Pads or Mountings

This is an ULTRA EXPENSIVE repair! as replacing the Handbrake Pads, verges on an almost impossible Job or at best an extremely difficult one as the 'Cognoscenti' (bet you didn't know I could Speak Italian!) among us

Explain the problem to the MOT Tester before the Test and ask him to go easy on the Handbrake and not to suddenly pull it on to Stop the Car, because if the Handbrake Pads so get pulled off their mountings 'Its happened to me and its happened to Greg' and if want a Garage to Fix it for you

Then this could Cost around £500! and maybe over £2,000! if the Garage in Question says that they cant do it (or don't want to do it!) unless they take the Rear Axle (IRS) out of the Car, as its a really horrible awkward little job, that attracts a very High Labour Charge

Both Greg and myself have both made our own versions of Hand Brake Pads for our XJS's to help minimize the risk that this could happen, so definitely something to look out for

Also Check the Power Steering isn't leaking as although its not an MOT Failure (unless its really bad and chucking Oil out everywhere) its also a very expensive repair to have done

Try and have a sit in the Car even before the inspection just to get the feel of how it feels and to make sure its your kind of Car

Alex

 

Hi OB!

Looking at the photos of the car and the fact it was first registered in May 1994, it should have the outboard brakes, so won't suffer the handbrake pad issue.

Like others, I'm looking forward to see which car Tommaso ends up buying!

Cheers

Paul

 

Oh Yeah Paul (ptjs)

Trust you to Spot my deliberate mistake! so Thanks for pointing that out Lol!

My only excuse being that I have been sifting through so many XJS's as no doubt you may have being doing yourself, to try and find the Perfect Car for Tommaso in hopefully Pristine Condition as well as at the right price, where after looking through so many it can become a 'blur'

Although I still think its a good idea to arrange with the Current owner, to take your prospective purchase for another MOT regardless of how many Months may be left on the existing one, as that way at least you have the chance to see the Car up in the Air

Where copious amounts of underseal could be covering a Rust Problem, that may well reveal itself after purchase and as such involve the New Owner in more unexpected expense, as there is nothing more Expensive than an inexpensive Jag @(Doug)

And so whenever possible it is often better to Spend more money up front and buy a Good one

But for anyone who maybe contemplating going for one with Inboard Brakes, having the Hand Brake Pads torn off during an MOT Test on the Rolling Road, is unfortunately 'A Thing' that can sometimes happen and this has happened to my own Car twice

Where with Summer approaching, it can literally leave you with a very big Mountain to Climb, as replacing the Hand Brake Brake Pads, is neither a very Fun or easy job, though 'Nightmare' of epic proportions could well be a better description, especially if you haven't got a Ramp to do this

Or maybe £500 burning a hole in your pocket, to get a garage to fix the problem for you

That is the reason that 'Greg' and myself both designed what we hoped would be 'Bullet Proof' Brake Pads, that no 'Rolling Road' could tear apart where although we came up with different designs they both do the same job and so it would be hard to say which design works better as they both do the job

But just in case your interested an even if your not, the following Thread describes how I made mine, including 'Shed Loads' of Photos that may help you

How I made Reinforced Handbrake Pads for my Inboard Axle XJS where as Paul (ptjs) correctly points out, are not needed for later Cars that have Outboard Brakes

Making Reinforced Handbrake Brake Pads for an XJS with Inboard IRS Brakes 'Braking Bad' Page 129 of my 'Cherry Blossom' Restoration Thread

 

OB,

Your advice will still be very valuable if Tommaso ends up considering one of the early facelift cars that he has identified which have the inboard brakes. And I'll be considering it also when I eventually have a look at the brakes on my pre-HE!

 

Thank you, all, for the excellent advice all round.

The inspector, John Vines, was recommended by Peter Bell, in turn recommended by Paul.

Peter Bell declined to inspect and added: «However, I would suggest getting in touch with John Vines at https://www.classiccarinspector.co.uk/
He is local to the area and is very familiar and experienced with classic Jaguars.»

I emailed him asking if he has a nearby garage to lift the car. I'm waiting for his reply.

The cost is more than 3 times the £100 that Alex mentions but it's a good investment if it will save me from more costly faults.

Alternatively, I could look for an MOT garage and hand then over The Greg/Paul list.

I'll update you once John Vines will reply. Once more, thank you all for the help!

 

Thank you. This is an excellent idea. I am now looking at two alternatives:

1. MOT garages near him (I hope to find a good garage where they understand the the Greg/Paul list).
2. Use John Vines - he uses 3 TON trolley jacks.

Any comments on the trolley jacks? Should they suffice? I imagine that they are more than capable of lifting the car for an inspection.

 

Hi Tommaso

Not really, as Trolley Jacks won't lift it up that high, so try and find a Garage that uses an Inspection 'Pit' instead but then rather than use a so Called Jaguar Expert to Check your Car over, how about you sounding out Paul (ptjs) to see if he would be willing to come and inspect her instead

When it comes to all things 'Jaguar' Paul (ptjs) is the 'Real Deal' who could very probably, not just give you the name of the Guys who built her but also the name of the Schools that their kids went to!

But now let me throw you a 'Curve Ball' since you may not be doing your own Maintenance, and many Garages these days, may have never Worked on or even seen an XJS before

So have you considered an 'F' Type as if I was buying another Jag, that would really be the one for me, as it has 'The Look' and 'The Performance'

 

Tommaso
MOT places miss LOTS of things! No substitute for someone who is an experienced car inspector.

 

Yes, also Paul commented that it's not a good idea to use an MOT garage. So that's scrapped.

The seller offered a garage with a ramp for a fee. He will let me know the cost for a 30 minutes use.

 

I wish! I'd be more than happy to pay!

Thanks, but I do not like modern cars. The XJS & the Double Six are the only 2 exceptions, as I don't like electronics in a car.

 

Update! Monday morning we will inspect this 6.0 XJS. Wish me luck!

 

Hi Tomasso,
I know I am replying on a slightly old thread but I think I went to see this exact car today. 😃

Did anything significant come up in the inspection that made you decide against it?

Happy for you to PM me if you want.
Thanks.

 

Yes. There were a few problems that my Jaguar specialist picked up.

I cannot PM you, as Forum rules require a minimum number of posts before you can PM. Try to PM me. If also that won't work, then post here again, and we'll find a way to communicate. I could send you his report and photos.