Non ABS for 'The Ice Princess'
#1
Non ABS for 'The Ice Princess'
Having now got 'Cherry Blossom' and '50 Shades' my Grey XJS back on the road again, I have now got another one in need of Restoration.
Which is called 'The Ice Princess' that hasn't been on the road since 2003.
Lots of Problems with this one, including fitting a New ABS Valve Block, which I picked up at an Auto Jumble for only £50!
But since the Master Cylinder Actuator is out of the Car, I am seriously toying with the idea of going Non ABS.
Where instead I would fit a Brake Booster.
When I learned to drive many years ago, it was on a Car without ABS and since my Merc also has a Non ABS System.
Maybe its just me but I prefer it, as its such a simple system that has a great Brake Pedal feel, of really being there. (if you know what I mean)
So what better time to try that out than now.
But in the event it doesn't work out and I find that I don't like it in this Car, then it would be very easy to Swap it back over.
There is a Chance I may already have the 'Kit' I need, as I have a Scrap Mercedes 190d that already has the Brake Booster System.
So with a bit of modding, I can swap the Pedal over (I've also got a spare pedal for an XJS)
Maybe not a piece of Cake to do this, as already there could be a Problem, as the Scrap Merc 190d has got a Manual Gearbox.
Which means that this Brake Booster has a pipe leading off it onto the Clutch.
Could I just Block this Pipe off?
As this Brake Booster is in good condition and already has a Master Cylinder fitted.
Which altogether could save over £200.
Ideas/Suggestions Please.
There will be a Photo of 'The Ice Princess' on my 'Cherry Blossom' restoration thread.
Brake Booster System from a Mercedes 190d
which also has a pipe coming off for the Clutch
but could I 'Mod it' to fit 'The Ice Princess'
Which is called 'The Ice Princess' that hasn't been on the road since 2003.
Lots of Problems with this one, including fitting a New ABS Valve Block, which I picked up at an Auto Jumble for only £50!
But since the Master Cylinder Actuator is out of the Car, I am seriously toying with the idea of going Non ABS.
Where instead I would fit a Brake Booster.
When I learned to drive many years ago, it was on a Car without ABS and since my Merc also has a Non ABS System.
Maybe its just me but I prefer it, as its such a simple system that has a great Brake Pedal feel, of really being there. (if you know what I mean)
So what better time to try that out than now.
But in the event it doesn't work out and I find that I don't like it in this Car, then it would be very easy to Swap it back over.
There is a Chance I may already have the 'Kit' I need, as I have a Scrap Mercedes 190d that already has the Brake Booster System.
So with a bit of modding, I can swap the Pedal over (I've also got a spare pedal for an XJS)
Maybe not a piece of Cake to do this, as already there could be a Problem, as the Scrap Merc 190d has got a Manual Gearbox.
Which means that this Brake Booster has a pipe leading off it onto the Clutch.
Could I just Block this Pipe off?
As this Brake Booster is in good condition and already has a Master Cylinder fitted.
Which altogether could save over £200.
Ideas/Suggestions Please.
There will be a Photo of 'The Ice Princess' on my 'Cherry Blossom' restoration thread.
Brake Booster System from a Mercedes 190d
which also has a pipe coming off for the Clutch
but could I 'Mod it' to fit 'The Ice Princess'
#2
#3
#4
Not all master brake cylinders are the same. Connections, threads for pipes, etc., all differ. Also if ATE, Girling, Bosch, Delphi, blub... Every one sits different. And then for the XJ-S rather important: 3, 4, 5 or 6 pipes The XJ-S needs 3. I think most Mercs had 4 (brake pressure balance for the rear brakes was achieved in the brake cylinder rather than in a little unit at the rear, like in the XJ-S)
I personally(!) would never fit a different master cylinder than the ones originally used. They can cause really big PITA problems.
I personally(!) would never fit a different master cylinder than the ones originally used. They can cause really big PITA problems.
The following 2 users liked this post by Daim:
Grant Francis (08-20-2017),
orangeblossom (08-18-2017)
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orangeblossom (08-18-2017)
#6
Not all master brake cylinders are the same. Connections, threads for pipes, etc., all differ. Also if ATE, Girling, Bosch, Delphi, blub... Every one sits different. And then for the XJ-S rather important: 3, 4, 5 or 6 pipes The XJ-S needs 3. I think most Mercs had 4 (brake pressure balance for the rear brakes was achieved in the brake cylinder rather than in a little unit at the rear, like in the XJ-S)
I personally(!) would never fit a different master cylinder than the ones originally used. They can cause really big PITA problems.
I personally(!) would never fit a different master cylinder than the ones originally used. They can cause really big PITA problems.
Cheers! That makes sense.
#7
Hi OB,
I really do understand why you might want to do this, but I just wouldn't! Even if you fit a completley original Jaguar XJS setup (I wouldn't do it any other way) you're going to have a fight on your hands every time you MoT it to prove to the tester that it has no components anywhere in the car relating to the ABS that they expect it to have. And you'll probably never be able to sell the car in the future for reasonable money because of the unexpected brake system.
You're developing a reasonable expertise in the ABS system so I'm sure you're more than competent to sort out any ABS problem that the Ice Princess might throw at you!
Just my view, with your absolute prerogative to completely ignore it!!
Cheers
Paul
I really do understand why you might want to do this, but I just wouldn't! Even if you fit a completley original Jaguar XJS setup (I wouldn't do it any other way) you're going to have a fight on your hands every time you MoT it to prove to the tester that it has no components anywhere in the car relating to the ABS that they expect it to have. And you'll probably never be able to sell the car in the future for reasonable money because of the unexpected brake system.
You're developing a reasonable expertise in the ABS system so I'm sure you're more than competent to sort out any ABS problem that the Ice Princess might throw at you!
Just my view, with your absolute prerogative to completely ignore it!!
Cheers
Paul
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#8
One of my first XJS's was non ABS and what I remember about it most, was the way that it could be relied upon to Stop you, no matter what.
What I also remember about my ABS Cars, was the way the ABS nearly killed me when one of the ribbon connectors inside the Valve Block broke.
And very nearly Spun me off the Road.
So being that I was able to find a Non ABS System, I would like to Retro-Fit it in this Car, except that no Car Breakers Yards has got one.
From time to time they do come up on ebay but some of them look in pretty rough condition.
#9
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orangeblossom (08-19-2017)
#10
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orangeblossom (08-19-2017)
#11
#12
Hi xjsv12
Many thanks for the drawing
(I've been trying to find this photo)
If I disconnected the Pedal where those 4 Bolts are, would I be able to bolt that part straight onto a Vacuum Servo Brake Booster.
The Photo is of my New ABS Master Cylinder Actuator but I have got an Old one that I could use instead.
XJS V12 Master Cylinder/Actuator
If I undid the 4 Bolts in the Photo, would a Brake Booster Servo bolt on in its place.
Many thanks for the drawing
(I've been trying to find this photo)
If I disconnected the Pedal where those 4 Bolts are, would I be able to bolt that part straight onto a Vacuum Servo Brake Booster.
The Photo is of my New ABS Master Cylinder Actuator but I have got an Old one that I could use instead.
XJS V12 Master Cylinder/Actuator
If I undid the 4 Bolts in the Photo, would a Brake Booster Servo bolt on in its place.
#13
#14
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orangeblossom (08-20-2017)
#15
Hi Greg
Cheers!
It looks like I am halfway there already, that Pedal bit on its own must be quite expensive (very)
I've seen some Brand New Brake Boosters on ebay for an XJS Circa: £100
So would make sense to Start with a New One, in case the diaphragm is leaking.
But what would I do about a Reservoir?
Could I just make something up?
Cheers!
It looks like I am halfway there already, that Pedal bit on its own must be quite expensive (very)
I've seen some Brand New Brake Boosters on ebay for an XJS Circa: £100
So would make sense to Start with a New One, in case the diaphragm is leaking.
But what would I do about a Reservoir?
Could I just make something up?
#16
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orangeblossom (08-20-2017)
#17
#18
OB, always remember: sod engines and trannies. DON'T be a cheapskate when it comes to brakes and tires. They are the ONLY things which make the car stop. DON'T (please!) just bodge something together to make it work somehow... And if you remove the ABS system, remove the LOT. Not just deactivate... Means removal of wiring, ABS ECU, pump, ABS sensors, ABS rotors (would look suspicious if you have the rotors on the hubs (visible from behind) and no ABS sensors), ...
A lot of work for something, which actually very rarely goes wrong and if it does, is easily serviced and repaired. Please don't get me wrong, BUT this is just one heck of a stupid idea. I personally(!!!) when it comes to brakes DON'T experiment around and play with things. That is especially one of the reasons the German TÜV does NOT allow alterations with ABS systems. If your car had it from factory, it HAS to have it when taken in for inspection. It also has to work (no lights staying on etc.).
You have the new unit which won't be getting better the longer it sits on a shelf. You also have 2 other cars with the same ABS unit (IIRC). Why would you want to stock up on parts for a car without ABS? Kind of like having 4 dogs and then getting a cat. Your shelves are full of dog food but a cat is a good idea at first, until you have to stock up on cat food... And kitty litter. And...
Please give it a think over before you take any action. Just please seriously give it a think over...
A lot of work for something, which actually very rarely goes wrong and if it does, is easily serviced and repaired. Please don't get me wrong, BUT this is just one heck of a stupid idea. I personally(!!!) when it comes to brakes DON'T experiment around and play with things. That is especially one of the reasons the German TÜV does NOT allow alterations with ABS systems. If your car had it from factory, it HAS to have it when taken in for inspection. It also has to work (no lights staying on etc.).
You have the new unit which won't be getting better the longer it sits on a shelf. You also have 2 other cars with the same ABS unit (IIRC). Why would you want to stock up on parts for a car without ABS? Kind of like having 4 dogs and then getting a cat. Your shelves are full of dog food but a cat is a good idea at first, until you have to stock up on cat food... And kitty litter. And...
Please give it a think over before you take any action. Just please seriously give it a think over...
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orangeblossom (08-20-2017)
#19
Hi Daim
Ok I think it over but my immediate Plan is to get the 'Ice Princess' out of the Garage, so that 'Cherry Blossom' can be under cover over the Winter just for a change.
'The Ice Princess' is the worst of the fleet and what's more I don't even know if the Engine will Start.
Not used since 2003!
Ok I think it over but my immediate Plan is to get the 'Ice Princess' out of the Garage, so that 'Cherry Blossom' can be under cover over the Winter just for a change.
'The Ice Princess' is the worst of the fleet and what's more I don't even know if the Engine will Start.
Not used since 2003!
#20
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orangeblossom (08-20-2017)