XJS ( X27 ) 1975 - 1996 3.6 4.0 5.3 6.0

Quick engine bay rust fix?

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  #21  
Old 12-12-2022 | 11:08 PM
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These cars are a great opportunity to expand one's breadth of technical skills and knowledge, it's sort of like paying for an education. Desperation breeds ingenuity after all! I say go for the DIY route; you'll be able to look back at your car with even more pride.
 
  #22  
Old 12-13-2022 | 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg in France
Mouse
I had never welded before I started doing so at 56 years old. I am entirely self taught and it is not difficult to learn.
You need a (preferably) a three phase electricty supply and a 3 phase-using MIG. If no three phase supply, sinlge will do. Plenty of how-to books on MIG welding.Then cut out all the rust, clean up the edges to bare metal and weld in new stuff. NOT that hard. Buy some metal and practice first. Cost not much and job done. With this Forum you will be steered towards the using right parts, so no worries there about bad new ones. Spending ANY monry on the car before you fix the rust is madness, a complete waste. Either decide to fix it or bin it. Attached some photos of my welding efforts, you can do this, if you want to. Having an XJS means you must do the work yourself, or give up the idea of having an XJS.


What primer did you use Greg? It seems to go on nice and thick and not run from metal edges.
Cheers,
LeeP
 
  #23  
Old 12-13-2022 | 03:29 AM
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I used a speciality paint from Indestructible Paints of Birmingham England, it is a zinc-chromate type, although not actually zinc chromate. It is a military grade paint and eye wateringly expensive, but has lasted really well in all sorts of exposed places like wheelarch lips.
 
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2022 | 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mouserider
Thank you for supporting, i was actually planning to get there eventually, just didnt plan that it will happen this soon. Im not really scared of welding, i did it once, but i am scared of pulling out the engine on my own. i wish that rust would be in the beginner friendly spot and not in hard reach inner wing section.
Looking at the pictures I agree it needs to be repaired - eventually. I don't think it is bad enough that it cannot be driven as is, at least as long as you planning on using it as a road car, not on track. I would want to inspect the subframe to make sure there is no severe rust there. I would go with your plan to upgrade the car as your time and budget allows and get to the rust repair in the future. And, I would learn to weld. You can do a lot with an inexpensive flux core welder if that is the best you can afford. They work pretty well on sheet metal although the welds are not as pretty as a true MIG. I believe you can repair that with the engine in but it probably will be necessary to support the engine from the top and lower the subframe. I would not panic about the rust. Good luck!
 
  #25  
Old 12-27-2022 | 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mouserider
Not sure i can go this road now, look, i understand the correct process, how much time and money it can take, i restored completely dodge charger 1971 (everything was done by someone else) it took 3 years and still not really drivable( as new parts issues coming here and there) , and it emptied my pockets. One of my friends said once about sailboats, after buying new sailboat, first year or so you will be sitting in the dock, as all new parts will get broken randomly, however used sailboat will look like **** but can take you anywhere, because everything already been tested.

Same with my charger, it has all new parts and they fail!

I dont want to go this road with my jag, not now at least, even if i will set it on fire now, it still will be less damage on my wallet, than doing full resto.

I will try to get it step by step, first cooling, then ingition, then fuel system, then IRS, and THEN one winter i will get engine out and rebuild front subframe and treat ALL rust in the car, im pretty sure, its not this ONE spot.

i cant weld, i cant cut, im new home mechanic, and just learning, so should get there step by step.

Can’t weld or don’t want to weld? Welding isn’t some magic art that only the privileged few can do. It sounds like you have the basics needed to learn.
It’s a skill like typing that improves with practice. 2 weeks of a few hours a week will have you welding confidently.
You can buy a modest MIG welding unit and learn. A Budget of $300 will get you started. I found it worth while to buy a better brand like Miller or Lincoln the hard way. Buy it from a welding supply place and they will be a great source for information and supplies. I’m self taught but there are classes taught at local night schools that will help you master it. Or try going to UTube and learning? I learned long before UTube by watching an old Geezer and giving it a try.
Or if you buy a used unit you might get the previous owner to teach you the basics.

Once learned you might get out of practice but a little practice and you’ll do well. Like riding a bike.

When you’re done you can sell the welder for about 1/2 what you paid for it and consider the other 1/2 rent. Or hang on to it and use it the rest of your life.
Whatever you pay for a welder it’s a tiny fraction of what having someone else do your welding for you. Plus the confidence of learning a skill. And no longer will you have to wait on others schedules plus hauling it back and forth.
 
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  #26  
Old 12-28-2022 | 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mguar
Can’t weld or don’t want to weld? Welding isn’t some magic art that only the privileged few can do. It sounds like you have the basics needed to learn.
It’s a skill like typing that improves with practice. 2 weeks of a few hours a week will have you welding confidently.
You can buy a modest MIG welding unit and learn. A Budget of $300 will get you started. I found it worth while to buy a better brand like Miller or Lincoln the hard way. Buy it from a welding supply place and they will be a great source for information and supplies. I’m self taught but there are classes taught at local night schools that will help you master it. Or try going to UTube and learning? I learned long before UTube by watching an old Geezer and giving it a try.
Or if you buy a used unit you might get the previous owner to teach you the basics.

Once learned you might get out of practice but a little practice and you’ll do well. Like riding a bike.

When you’re done you can sell the welder for about 1/2 what you paid for it and consider the other 1/2 rent. Or hang on to it and use it the rest of your life.
Whatever you pay for a welder it’s a tiny fraction of what having someone else do your welding for you. Plus the confidence of learning a skill. And no longer will you have to wait on others schedules plus hauling it back and forth.
Thank you so much for tips, i actually really want to learn weld and i can imagine its not that hard. The only reason i was asking for a quick fix, is because im not ready for pulling the engine out right now. I didnt drive the car even for 30 minutes since i bought it. I want to do post purchase full work, including cooling, ignition, fuel delivery, all the rubber parts and mb next winter get to the body. In the meantime i will follow your advise, get a welder and start practicing, maybe i will do few other spots that are easy to access from outside. That particular spot doesnt look like a beginner friendly one. Also i cant really imagine the structure behind it, as i understood there some sort of thicker panels under the body metal, and as of now i cant really understand how to properly do 2 layers of metal of a different thickness.
 
  #27  
Old 12-28-2022 | 07:18 AM
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There are a number of techniques available, you need to think of it as a jigsaw and not try to do the whole lot in one go, I could write pages on ways to do this but it is best to advise in steps when you are actually ready to play and take some pictures. Please consider that the longer you put this off the harder it is going to get, I do understand your reasoning even if I don't entirely agree with it.

The typical way for two thicknesses is to work from the thicker to the thinner. First phase would would be to repair the thicker, particularly with a suspension component because you must maintain its location / orientation - this may require tacking in temporary supports to stop it moving depending how bad the damage is. Once the thicker is repaired spray thoroughly with weld through primer, then form the thinner to shape and trim as needed to get the smallest gaps possible, spray it also and dry fit into its final location, then clamp the thin and thick together either by drilling and bolting temporarily or clamping, they would then be spot welded together which is essentially keeping the heat going into the joint longer than normal so that it penetrates the thin and into the thick, the thin plate edges can then be tacked and welded into place. You then fill the bolt holes if there were any with weld. If you wanted to put some fillets on the thick side you aim the arc at the thick and 'weave' the torch such that it bridges the gap - if you try it the other way you will blow through the thin because you need a higher current on the thick.

You need something with a specification like a Clarke 151TE which is the MIG I use, personally I wouldn't use a 'gasless' mig, how can it be IG if it is gasless - that's stick welding but with wire in my opinion with all the challenges for inclusions and bad welds that stick welding brings. Be prepared to use real bottles not those pathetic disposable canisters that don't last 5 minutes, or buy a secondhand welder that has been set up already - you don't need to buy new but seek somebody that knows how to check a welder over if you don't, or see if your local welding supplier has any good trade in units, you need to be sure the problem is you not the welder because as a beginner you won't know. Don't cheat on the size of the welder, the smaller sub 120A units aren't worth the space they take up (once you learn to weld the reason will be clear). Stay conscious of the welding thickness capability of the welder and aim for 5 to 6mm, you need to ensure that the unit has a low amp capability 30 or less is better, once you get the hang of welding the reason will be clear, you need to get enough heat / penetration in the joint - there is a fine line between too much heat and too little, the latter will not create a good joint but it will look to the inexperienced eye OK - only experience will tell you this so set yourself up for some practice, buy the welder and a pile of sheet steel to play with and be prepared to practice. There's a ton of advice on welders out there but also a ton of 'biased/sponsored' advice trying to get you to spring for a $10k welder. My whole MIG set up cost less than $300, was bought secondhand, only think I've done is maintenance and purchased a true color welding mask - actually have two now.

Welding truly isn't that hard, car bodywork is more about being able to spot weld - you won't be laying down any long fillet welds - 80% of the job is preparation, learning the process can be fun in itself (and frustrating in equal measure sometimes).

 
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2022 | 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BenKenobi
There are a number of techniques available, you need to think of it as a jigsaw and not try to do the whole lot in one go, I could write pages on ways to do this but it is best to advise in steps when you are actually ready to play and take some pictures. Please consider that the longer you put this off the harder it is going to get, I do understand your reasoning even if I don't entirely agree with it.

The typical way for two thicknesses is to work from the thicker to the thinner. First phase would would be to repair the thicker, particularly with a suspension component because you must maintain its location / orientation - this may require tacking in temporary supports to stop it moving depending how bad the damage is. Once the thicker is repaired spray thoroughly with weld through primer, then form the thinner to shape and trim as needed to get the smallest gaps possible, spray it also and dry fit into its final location, then clamp the thin and thick together either by drilling and bolting temporarily or clamping, they would then be spot welded together which is essentially keeping the heat going into the joint longer than normal so that it penetrates the thin and into the thick, the thin plate edges can then be tacked and welded into place. You then fill the bolt holes if there were any with weld. If you wanted to put some fillets on the thick side you aim the arc at the thick and 'weave' the torch such that it bridges the gap - if you try it the other way you will blow through the thin because you need a higher current on the thick.

You need something with a specification like a Clarke 151TE which is the MIG I use, personally I wouldn't use a 'gasless' mig, how can it be IG if it is gasless - that's stick welding but with wire in my opinion with all the challenges for inclusions and bad welds that stick welding brings. Be prepared to use real bottles not those pathetic disposable canisters that don't last 5 minutes, or buy a secondhand welder that has been set up already - you don't need to buy new but seek somebody that knows how to check a welder over if you don't, or see if your local welding supplier has any good trade in units, you need to be sure the problem is you not the welder because as a beginner you won't know. Don't cheat on the size of the welder, the smaller sub 120A units aren't worth the space they take up (once you learn to weld the reason will be clear). Stay conscious of the welding thickness capability of the welder and aim for 5 to 6mm, you need to ensure that the unit has a low amp capability 30 or less is better, once you get the hang of welding the reason will be clear, you need to get enough heat / penetration in the joint - there is a fine line between too much heat and too little, the latter will not create a good joint but it will look to the inexperienced eye OK - only experience will tell you this so set yourself up for some practice, buy the welder and a pile of sheet steel to play with and be prepared to practice. There's a ton of advice on welders out there but also a ton of 'biased/sponsored' advice trying to get you to spring for a $10k welder. My whole MIG set up cost less than $300, was bought secondhand, only think I've done is maintenance and purchased a true color welding mask - actually have two now.

Welding truly isn't that hard, car bodywork is more about being able to spot weld - you won't be laying down any long fillet welds - 80% of the job is preparation, learning the process can be fun in itself (and frustrating in equal measure sometimes).
you made me actually want to start welding even more now. Thanks!
 
  #29  
Old 12-28-2022 | 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve M
This is like the first time I watched Jaws.
LOL, I was about to post a scary movie title too. BenKenobi, you photos reminded me of the "best of the best" Frankenstien movies, where the poor cadaver is strung up by wires just to hold the dead bits in place until re-animation is accomplished.
But Steve's suggestion of Jaws beats my Frankenstein. EEEwwww, God!

Great photos!
 
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