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Rescue
The ORANGE wire from the pump relay is the EARTH wire. It actually runs to the ECU which earths it, and cuts the earth if the engine does not start to turn after 2 or 3 seconds.
If you run a wire direct to earth from the relay socket terminal that this orange wire connects to, and turn on the ignition, the pump will run continuously providing 12v is going to the relay trigger circuit from the ignition switch.
If you are saying, ignition on, there is no 12v to the relay to trigger the pump circuit, then that is your problem. Fixing which is a separate issue.
Under these circumstances, to test run the car or to test the pump, remove the cover beneath the battery to reveal the pump. Run an earth wire from the pump negative to the battery/chassis, and run a 12v wire to the pump positive. This will make the pump run regardless of whether the ignition is on or not, so just use it as a test and then disconnect it.
As to why no 12 v at the pump relay:
On the diagram you posted above, the high-current to the pump relay comes direct form the battery, check that theer IS 12 v at this terminal of the socket
The 12v to the trigger circuit comes from the relay next to it, assuming nthis is the circuit you describe as no voltage, I would clean up the sockets, test the other relay is outputting 12v to the pump relay trigger circuit, and if still not 12 v at the pump relay, rewire between the two.
Ok ill try that after work.
And to be clear when you say earth you mean ground right? Never heard the term earth before yesterday.
The Red socket relay, Main Relay), activates the Black Socket relay (Fuel pump relay).
The main relay has 2 X 87 terminals, one of them goes TO the Pump relay, among other things.
Test that wire for 12V when Ign ON.
Then look at the Black socket, and locate the Solid Brown Wire. This is Battery LIVE, and is 12V as long as the battery is connected. This is via those 2 wires in that plastic arrangement in the battery main cable, about 6" down, Greg mentioned.
Inertia switch test. Pull the plunger UP, and then push it DOWN again. If you really are unsure, remove the 2 wires and join them, thus by-passing that switch. DO NOT leave it by-passed please.
That Orange wire earth for the pump relay, I would simply splice a 2nd wire into it, and earth that 2nd wire. This will activate the pump relay whenever the Ign is ON, and that should run the pump whenever the Ign is ON.
It will be something simple, always is with this pump circuit.
The Red socket relay, Main Relay), activates the Black Socket relay (Fuel pump relay).
The main relay has 2 X 87 terminals, one of them goes TO the Pump relay, among other things.
Test that wire for 12V when Ign ON.
Then look at the Black socket, and locate the Solid Brown Wire. This is Battery LIVE, and is 12V as long as the battery is connected. This is via those 2 wires in that plastic arrangement in the battery main cable, about 6" down, Greg mentioned.
Inertia switch test. Pull the plunger UP, and then push it DOWN again. If you really are unsure, remove the 2 wires and join them, thus by-passing that switch. DO NOT leave it by-passed please.
That Orange wire earth for the pump relay, I would simply splice a 2nd wire into it, and earth that 2nd wire. This will activate the pump relay whenever the Ign is ON, and that should run the pump whenever the Ign is ON.
It will be something simple, always is with this pump circuit.
Ok. I've test the inertia switch and it tested ok.
I'll recheck the relays. I did get nojoy.12v from the black.one. I have a replacement coming tomorrow. So today just want to check to make sure the pump is ok. And get the car moved so I can do a brake job on the wifes Ford edge
The Red socket relay, Main Relay), activates the Black Socket relay (Fuel pump relay).
The main relay has 2 X 87 terminals, one of them goes TO the Pump relay, among other things.
Test that wire for 12V when Ign ON.
Then look at the Black socket, and locate the Solid Brown Wire. This is Battery LIVE, and is 12V as long as the battery is connected. This is via those 2 wires in that plastic arrangement in the battery main cable, about 6" down, Greg mentioned.
Inertia switch test. Pull the plunger UP, and then push it DOWN again. If you really are unsure, remove the 2 wires and join them, thus by-passing that switch. DO NOT leave it by-passed please.
That Orange wire earth for the pump relay, I would simply splice a 2nd wire into it, and earth that 2nd wire. This will activate the pump relay whenever the Ign is ON, and that should run the pump whenever the Ign is ON.
It will be something simple, always is with this pump circuit.
So I took the main relay off, when I tested the connector I get 12v at 85, and 12v at 30. 86 is ground and nothing at the 2 87s
Do I chekc with the relays in or out because I can't get my prob in to touch the connectors with the relay in the socket
Worse case I hot wire the pump. Can I run like this for say 20 minutes. About 10 to 15 for warmup then another 5 to 10 for test drive around the block?
Sometimes I will take the cover off of a relay to see what I can see. They are a pretty simple device and lots O times it's as simple as a ratty contact, especially on such and old machine...
Sometimes I will take the cover off of a relay to see what I can see. They are a pretty simple device and lots O times it's as simple as a ratty contact, especially on such and old machine...
Any luck yet?
I cant get past the wires in the back. My probe must be to big lol.
Well if I trust my testing lol it may be the main replay is faulty. I suck when it comes to electrical. I can wire a whole car audio system froms scratch but for some reason all the other stuff I have issues.
At least its not the pump...which for some reason I though would be bigger lol.
I'll have at least the fuel pump relay replacement here tomorrow. Now to find a main one. They look the same but i guess its a little different inside and they have seperate apart numbers.
I had a similar problem a month or so ago. The relays didn’t work when pushed in all the way, but if they’re in 3/4 of the way everything works great. It’s something that needs to be fixed at some point, but it would be an easy thing to test.
The main relay has a diode in it. If you connect the battery backwards it presents damage.
The Main Relay is a Standard Cube 5 pin, with 2 X 87 terminals, NO 87a or 87b. So be careful there.
The Red stripe indicates a diode, as mentioned. I do not run a diode relay in that position. It is, as said to protect the ECU is come clown connects the battery backwards, and actually turned ON the Ign. I reckoned at the time, that the sparks and smoke when connecting the battery wrong would be more than enough to alert even the silliest operator, but I suppose, Jaguar had to do what they could for "any event", HA>
The Pump relay is a Standard Cube 4 pin, with 1 X 87, although mine has the 2 relays the same, as there are no wires on the pump relay socket for that extra spade..
Back when I changed them, $5 each.
When the Main relay activates, it sends 12V to the pump relay to activate it, BUT, it that Orange wire is not getting an Earth path, that Pump relay will remain DEAD.
YES, you can hot wire the pump to move the car, nothing sinister will happen.
I've been driving my wifes Ford edge because the front brakes were shot (she commutes so she has my new van) while I waited for the parts. So had the parts last Friday but because of working on the jag I didn't get to it. So today at work when I pulled into the parking lots after lunch I heard a bang and lost a lot of braking power.
So found this on the ground
So told my Sgt im heading home. Limped it home and finally replaced the front brakes
Much better now lol
Also since I had 2 wheels off I decided to put the winter tires and rims on. It had snowed yesterday and they have to be on Nov 1 for insurance anyways.
so while I was working on the Ford I got a notification my relays were delivered. Walked to mail box and got them
Replaced the fuel pump relay.....no joy....hmmm I ordered 2...replaced the main relay....pump primes...well it was already primes but I could here it kinda top up. So took out the new relay in fuel.pump spot and put old one in. pump primes again....
Conclusion...it was the main relay not the fuel pump relay.
I didn't turn over the jag though as my garage had old brake parts everywhere.
So tomorrow afterwork ill finally get to try the Jag and transmission.
I've been driving my wifes Ford edge because the front brakes were shot (she commutes so she has my new van) while I waited for the parts. So had the parts last Friday but because of working on the jag I didn't get to it. So today at work when I pulled into the parking lots after lunch I heard a bang and lost a lot of braking power.
So found this on the ground
So told my Sgt im heading home. Limped it home and finally replaced the front brakes
Much better now lol
Also since I had 2 wheels off I decided to put the winter tires and rims on. It had snowed yesterday and they have to be on Nov 1 for insurance anyways.
so while I was working on the Ford I got a notification my relays were delivered. Walked to mail box and got them
Replaced the fuel pump relay.....no joy....hmmm I ordered 2...replaced the main relay....pump primes...well it was already primes but I could here it kinda top up. So took out the new relay in fuel.pump spot and put old one in. pump primes again....
Conclusion...it was the main relay not the fuel pump relay.
I didn't turn over the jag though as my garage had old brake parts everywhere.
So tomorrow afterwork ill finally get to try the Jag and transmission.
Will update tomorrow.
Thanks for all the relay info
Good show!!! Except,,,,
Brother,,, it's not a good pattern to get in ta start neglecting good peoples (wifey) for an ol car, lol.... You might pay a hefty price... Jus say'n. Spread the LOVE, hahahaha...
This is a whole new meaning to brake disc wear, HAHA.
hahaha ya ive seen that before. funny thing is now i can hear the back brakes starting to go now that the front ones are silent... got a tasking for next week so will get to it the week after. wifey also got a new position at work and is now no more than 8 min drive to work instead of 1 hr one way. so this ford which we I got on a trade and was only for the commute is at least paid for and is awd fully loaded so even for a 2010 with 215k km on it the engine is still strong so im gonna make it last unitl it just dies one day then Im gonna go get her something fun...not the xjs its all mine lol
it lives! Still adding fluid but transmission shifts like butter...
I'm up to about 10L added so I add .5L then cycle through gears and then let sit for a few minutes and recheck.
Man when I stepped on it...because I had to...the front lifted and it took off. I braked quickly as there's still more left to fix but still 100% better now.
So time to start planning for the winter project... engine. 5 to 6 months time frame
I'm starting a lists but would like input as im likely to miss something.
So basically stripping everything down to the heads (not removing the heads as of now)
Goals are to replace everything that can be replaced and remove all the emissions stuff (not needed here)
Replace all the cooling components (hoses, rad, thermostats)
Replace all the fuel injection components (hoses, referb injectors)
Replace any gaskets I come across
Maybe add a catch can
Clean / referb all parts I can
Clean the engine bay
Im open to make mods etc as im not a purists. If it can be upgrade to be better I'll do it.
I'll be removing the front bumper for easier access.
I'm not sure if this is the time to work.on fabbing a cold air intake system. I think it is.
I'll be wanting to replace the headlights from the 1 piece to the 2 piece as I want to use one hole on each side for air intake. So I got to find the frame as i don't need the actual lights as im gonna be putting aftermarket lights with built in DLR as well.
I'm sure there's more but I got a couple of weeks to plan it out before I start tearing into it.
10-27-2020, 04:27 AM
