I saw an article on the use of Propylene Glycol instead of ethylene Glycol as the new anti-freeze component. The Propylene Glycol is used in food products and is not poisonous to humans or animals(?).
There are some reports about toxic effect on dogs by the propylene glycol
additives in some dog foods.

But, it has to have some sort of metal additive that makes the new
compound 60% more effective than the regular ethelyne glycol anti-freeze.
This may mean smaller radiators from now on in cars.

I wonder what effect this new compound would have on the XJS 4.0L six and the V12s?

I see that PEAK and Prestone advertise the propylene glycol based anti-freeze products now.
But, do they have the metal additive that supposedly make the product more efficient?
Does anyone have any real world experience with these "safe" products?

 

Propylene glycol is LESS effective at heat transfer that ethylene glycol. A big disadvantage.

 

and after you change it, it is still toxic

 

Mikey, I know the part about Propylene glycol being less efficient at heat transfer.
But, the article I read mentioned the use of a metal additive that made the Propylene
version 60% more efficient that the ethylene version.
No brand names were mentioned. I would try it just for the improved heat transfer
characteristics.
I wonder how that would affect the engine management in regards to fuel
combustion if the engine stayed cooler longer?

P O R (Press On Regardless)

 

Could you post a link the article please? I'm curious.

The engine itself would not experience a change in operational characteristics. The thermostat regulates coolant flow to keep the system within a certain and fairly narrow range. Added to this is a common misconception that it's better for efficiency to run a engine cooler rather than hotter. The opposite is true.

 

The article was posted in the GIZMAG daily updates:

Food additive could find use in more efficient non-toxic antifreeze

I was thinking that if this was a safe to consume product then why not add some Maple
flavor to it and then you could have some Hot Maple flavored syrup for pancakes or waffles
after a morning drive?
On second thought, it sounds too much like an episode of Top Gear. . .

P O R (Press On Regardless)

 

I read an article by "Smokey" Yunick (race car engine engineer) who explained that
a automotive engine was in nature an EXO-thermic device (It generates heat
as part of its function) and he designed an engine that recycled the heat back into
the engine to heat the fuel to 400F to vaporize it completely before entering the
combustion chambers and as a result it was a very efficient design.
A 2.5L 4 cyl engine that output 250HP and got 50mpg+ without turbocharging.
He called it a Hot Vapor engine.
The Hot Rod article was in the June 1984 issue.
I wonder what the 4.0L six and the V12s would do if that technology had been used?

He also predicted that high horsepower 4-cyclinder engines would be the
normal engine for cars rather than V-6 and V8s by use of turbochargers and the efficiency
of car engines would be increase with the use of his Heat Conservation designs.

 

They have relatively similar performance. Radiators already are smaller, because engines are more efficient, meaning less waste heat, as well as smaller and make use of electric fans and other things.

If you want to save critters, then the easiest and most foolproof way is to fix the leak in your car.

I also don't think any coolant would be non-toxic for a dog, even the lifetime type that you can run without the caps on and doesn't boil.

That being said, I have been around open coolant and cars being worked on and different stages of project throughout my life, with as many as five dogs around at one time, and never had a problem. I've never even had a dog take any interest in it, even a completely open pan of it. Maybe I have good dogs that aren't stupid, idk, but the whole thing is definitely an exaggeration. They need to drink more of it than people make it seem and are less interested that people make it seem.

YES it is sweet, but its not like it smells like sprite, it still smells weird and unlike any other drink. Not saying you shouldn't make an attempt to get some other type, i am just trying to say the whole thing is exaggerated and that as with many other examples, you are better off being responsible and making sure it stays where it goes.

and Yes, the type you mentioned is in some dog food, but it is typically very very low grade dog food.

Babies can't drink bleach, but that isn't a reason to use only vinegar to clean my house, it just means I should lock my cabinet or put it somewhere that isn't reachable and teach kids to stay out of stuff.

 

Sounds like the product is not commercially available as an automotive coolant.

 

In my day job, I'm a veterinarian. You are absolutely correct about being careful where antifreeze goes and being careful about handling it it. However, I want to correct a couple of statements made in your post. It takes a VERY SMALL amount to cause damage to an animal. If a cat walks in it, then licks their feet, that is enough to kill them. An average sized dog would only need to ingest 4-5 tablespoons to cause death. The antifreeze (ethylene glycol) itself is not toxic, but it is metabolized by the liver into other compounds which cause kidney damage and failure. If treated early after exposure before renal damage is extensive, most animals will survive.
Also, most dogs and cats find antifreeze to be attractive due to it's sweet taste. It's got nothing to do with a dog being smart or not. Some animals will leave it alone, but most will ingest it given the opportunity. We really do need to be careful with it. Clean up spills quickly, cap containers and cover those catch basins!
Okay, I'm off the soapbox. Let's fix some Jags and keep 'em on the road.

 

I wasn't trying to imply that they can drink a gallon, just that people act like if a dog so much as touches it. Death at 4-5 tablespoons doesn't sound like much, but when people dive across the floor with a paper towel and cleaner to clean up a single drop, as if shielding their pet from a grenade, in case their dog ever gets out and for some reason licks it, is being a little ridiculous. Also, being smart does have something to do with it, the same way my dog knows not to steal food or drink from soda cups, he also knows to not going drinking anti freeze. I've also read a study where a group of dogs were provided sugar water, water, and anti-freeze. 91% of them chose regular water. Not trying to downplay anti-freeze as a poison, as if people should be less responsible with it. I am just trying to say that taking a pretty normal level of responsibility and preventative action is all that is needed. Noone needs to freak out when their 45lb dog eats a crumb from a cookie or walks around in the garage with you.

Like I said, the best way to 100% prevent poisoning from anti-freeze is to fix leaks in your car. It is also better for the car lol.

 

hey guys google EVANS WATERLESS COOLANT.com.

i been using it since 1989, some different cars, 1st one a 7.4L BBC , 2nd in a Mazda turbo rotary engine(500whp out of 1.3L), now in my 1978 Jag XJS V12!
if used properly it works great, it will not boil, so you get no hot spot weak head gaskets,perfect lube for w/t pump seals,etc. also zero corrosion or rust!

can be reused,never goes bad, topped up when needed,like once a year,1/2 cup!

was developed by NASA for cooling the hydraulic systems in military helicopters(not the engines,they gas-turbines), now used in many other apps!

check it out , may be useful for some of you!

 

Thanks Dr Bill. It needed to be said.

 

.

scarbro,, Smokey Yunick was a personal friend of mine, Daytona FL till he died!
all of his hot vapor engines used what he called a homogenizer(AKA turbocharger), to help vaporize/mix the liquid fuel/air mixture,into a completed gas, it did work quite well(for that era 80s),todays direct injection and turbocharging,along with controlled combustion, has refined and improved some of his theories!

i have driven some of his cars,sometimes for a day or two, to give some feedback and opinions.

also there is a guy in San Antonio TX that bought one of his cars at auction about a year ago, went to see him and talk about Smokey!

and deffinetly a good modern turbo 4 cylinder is adequate for todays daily driver, like Ford Ecoboost engines! 305 hp and good torque++ MPG.

Smokey was famous for developing the SBC chevy into a performance engine, truth be known he was friends with Corvette guru Zora Duntov, who would explain controlled combustion using squish,squeeze,quench, and turbulence, engines! that old Russian was a pretty kool engineer!

 

thanks, "waterless coolant" was the phrase i was looking for. It sounds dumb and weird, which is probably why i couldn't think of it.

It is expensive but if you fix all your leaks i think it is worth it

 

There's an extensive debate over the S-type section debunking many of the supposed advantages of waterless coolants.

 

My thoughts in general on green, organic, free range, environmentally friendly etc. products.

Increased cost for no perceived personal benefit. When the entire industry shifts and can offer these products with equal performance and similar price to existing staples, I will switch.

Not compromising on my 12 cylinder GTs.

 

I too, am a waterless coolant fan. I have Evans High Performance coolant in my 86 XJS. I love it for all the same reasons Ronbros does. My brother uses it in his 69 XKE and wouldn't dream of using standard antifreeze. If you love your vehicle do a little research and see for yourself. I believe it is low in toxicity also. The main reason I like it, is no corrosion of internal engine parts that WILL happen with water based products. Yes it is expensive, but more than worth it in my opinion.
By the way, don't confuse waterless coolant with water wetter. Very different products.
Brent