Shout out to Warrjon or any other Electrical Genius out there 'Brake Pump Problems'
#1
Shout out to Warrjon or any other Electrical Genius out there 'Brake Pump Problems'
Long Story Short
The Full Version with Photos will be on my 'Cherry Blossom' restoration thread in due course
Put 12 Volts direct to the Brake Pump I took off 'The Ice Princess' (1990 XJS V12)
result (No dice!) the Brake Pump wouldn't run
Did the same with the Brake Pump that I took off my Parts Car and that wouldn't run either
With the Pump removed from the Car, I then Tested the Output Voltage from the Plug that would normally be connected to the Brake Pump and got 0.36 Volts!
Hardly enough to light up a Torch Bulb!
I also checked and replaced the 32 amp Fuse in the ABS and the 32 amp Fuse in the Brake Pump, so why only 0.36 Volts?
Any ideas?
The Full Version with Photos will be on my 'Cherry Blossom' restoration thread in due course
Put 12 Volts direct to the Brake Pump I took off 'The Ice Princess' (1990 XJS V12)
result (No dice!) the Brake Pump wouldn't run
Did the same with the Brake Pump that I took off my Parts Car and that wouldn't run either
With the Pump removed from the Car, I then Tested the Output Voltage from the Plug that would normally be connected to the Brake Pump and got 0.36 Volts!
Hardly enough to light up a Torch Bulb!
I also checked and replaced the 32 amp Fuse in the ABS and the 32 amp Fuse in the Brake Pump, so why only 0.36 Volts?
Any ideas?
#2
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orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#3
Hi Bladerunner
The Brake Pump kept blowing the 2 X 32 Amp Fuses for the Brake Pump and the ABS under the Passenger kneepad
So I took the Brake Pump out of the Car and then tried to test it by giving it 12 volts on to the 2 pin plug of the actual Brake Pump Motor and it wouldn't spin
The Brake Pump Motor appeared to be seized and so I separated it from the actual Brake Pump itself
Where while I could turn the Brake Pump part by hand, I was unable to turn the Spigot that was sticking out of the Motor
The spigot sticking out of the Motor Part of the Pump would not revolve even if I gently tried to turn it with a spanner
Any ideas as to what may be wrong?
Although the Pump (on the right of the pic) turned freely The Motor with the Spigot (on the left of the pic) would not turn at all and appeared to be seized up
The Brake Pump kept blowing the 2 X 32 Amp Fuses for the Brake Pump and the ABS under the Passenger kneepad
So I took the Brake Pump out of the Car and then tried to test it by giving it 12 volts on to the 2 pin plug of the actual Brake Pump Motor and it wouldn't spin
The Brake Pump Motor appeared to be seized and so I separated it from the actual Brake Pump itself
Where while I could turn the Brake Pump part by hand, I was unable to turn the Spigot that was sticking out of the Motor
The spigot sticking out of the Motor Part of the Pump would not revolve even if I gently tried to turn it with a spanner
Any ideas as to what may be wrong?
Although the Pump (on the right of the pic) turned freely The Motor with the Spigot (on the left of the pic) would not turn at all and appeared to be seized up
#4
Just to backtrack a bit, going back to the voltage at the brake pump connector, plug the connector back into the pressure switch, the blue plug, and you should then see 12v at the pump power connector.
As for the pump, if it won't turn then it is clearly dead - have a look at this link to the same kind of pump on a Range Rover: ABS Pump
If you can get into it, you may be able to do something with it depending on what's going on inside?
As for the pump, if it won't turn then it is clearly dead - have a look at this link to the same kind of pump on a Range Rover: ABS Pump
If you can get into it, you may be able to do something with it depending on what's going on inside?
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orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#5
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orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#6
Hi Bladerunner
Genius!
Thank you so much for that Link, as now I think I know what may have happened!
Stuck Relay that didn't cut out, Motor Overheats and Fries all the windings and probably also melts those Plastic Brush Holders
Hence the reason the Motor Part won't even turn with a Spanner, it's Seized Solid!
Where getting inside that Motor is an 'almost' impossible task, as there are locking pieces that have been hammered in place, that would need a Hammer and Chisel to remove them
And even if I did so, finding spares to repair it, could not only be a difficult job but probably not worth the hassle
So no wonder it kept blowing Fuses if the Motor doesn't Spin round, which probably means there is nothing wrong with the Cars electrics
But if I try and Re-Test it by Plugging in the Pressure Switch on the Brake Pump, it will probably keep Blowing Fuses, as the Brake Pump Motor has Seized up
Unlike XJS's there are lots of places round my way that dismantle Range Rovers, so finding a Pump 'may' not be much of a problem
But first I need to check out my electrics
Also one of my XJS's takes longer to build up Brake Pump Pressure than the other one does, as one takes 30 Seconds and the other one takes 60 Seconds
Could it be that 'The Black Ball' Accumulator is a bit down on Pressure and needs replacing?
Thanks again for all your help
Much Appreciated
Genius!
Thank you so much for that Link, as now I think I know what may have happened!
Stuck Relay that didn't cut out, Motor Overheats and Fries all the windings and probably also melts those Plastic Brush Holders
Hence the reason the Motor Part won't even turn with a Spanner, it's Seized Solid!
Where getting inside that Motor is an 'almost' impossible task, as there are locking pieces that have been hammered in place, that would need a Hammer and Chisel to remove them
And even if I did so, finding spares to repair it, could not only be a difficult job but probably not worth the hassle
So no wonder it kept blowing Fuses if the Motor doesn't Spin round, which probably means there is nothing wrong with the Cars electrics
But if I try and Re-Test it by Plugging in the Pressure Switch on the Brake Pump, it will probably keep Blowing Fuses, as the Brake Pump Motor has Seized up
Unlike XJS's there are lots of places round my way that dismantle Range Rovers, so finding a Pump 'may' not be much of a problem
But first I need to check out my electrics
Also one of my XJS's takes longer to build up Brake Pump Pressure than the other one does, as one takes 30 Seconds and the other one takes 60 Seconds
Could it be that 'The Black Ball' Accumulator is a bit down on Pressure and needs replacing?
Thanks again for all your help
Much Appreciated
Last edited by orangeblossom; 05-02-2018 at 12:10 PM.
#7
Hi Sidescrollin
It's after the Fuse, so it probably powers the Relay that turns on the 12 Volts to the Pump
But as the Brake Pump has Seized Up, I can't see anyway that I can Test it, as the Brake Pump will keep Blowing Fuses
Thanks for your help
It's after the Fuse, so it probably powers the Relay that turns on the 12 Volts to the Pump
But as the Brake Pump has Seized Up, I can't see anyway that I can Test it, as the Brake Pump will keep Blowing Fuses
Thanks for your help
Last edited by orangeblossom; 05-02-2018 at 03:35 PM.
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#8
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orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#9
#10
Sorry, you misunderstood my question. You implied the circuit is not getting a full 12v. You indicated that it had 0.36v at the plug. I was asking you to check voltage at the other connectors in the circuit to find out where it is dropping 12v. The fuse was just an example of one of those connections because its often easy enough to pull a fuse and see if it has 12v coming to it.
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orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#11
#12
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orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#13
Dismantle the motor and check the bearings turn freely and windings are not fried. If the windings are bad you can have the motor rewound.
I would think this will be a brushed DC motor so also check the brushes and commutator are not worn. If the Comm is badly worn and a brush is damaged it is possible for the brush to jam the comm and stop the motor from turning.
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Don B (05-03-2018),
orangeblossom (05-02-2018)
#14
#15
When it comes to replacing the unit, I would make the assumption that the pressure switch is faulty and contributed to the motor burning out. I assume you'll be looking to replace the whole unit anyway.
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orangeblossom (05-03-2018)
#16
Hi Bladerunner
Yeah! I had a feeling that's what you meant, so I'll just plug in the Blue Plug into the Pressure Switch and hopefully get 12 Volts out of the Plug that 'Would' normally go on the Brake Pump
But She's all Covered up at the moment as up until today its been like November, so I'll probably have a go at it over the Bank Holiday
And Yes! I'll replace the whole unit, if I can find one
Thanks again for your help
Yeah! I had a feeling that's what you meant, so I'll just plug in the Blue Plug into the Pressure Switch and hopefully get 12 Volts out of the Plug that 'Would' normally go on the Brake Pump
But She's all Covered up at the moment as up until today its been like November, so I'll probably have a go at it over the Bank Holiday
And Yes! I'll replace the whole unit, if I can find one
Thanks again for your help
#17
Tell me about it! What a strange week of sun and terrible weather - I commute into London by motorbike so I'm very tuned into the weather! Where in the UK are you?
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orangeblossom (05-03-2018)
#18
Do not try and run a seized motor or you will let the smoke out and it will never work again.
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orangeblossom (05-03-2018)
#19
Hi Warrjon
Its got Steel Rings that are hammered flat into the side of the Casing, so while I could probably get it apart if I had to, it won't be a 'Walk in the Park' for me like it probably would be for you
And I very much doubt if they'd be any Change out of £100 to fix it, although I'm going to keep that as a 'Fall back option'
But there is a place not far me that dismantles Range Rovers where apart from a Slightly different Plug they look exactly the same and over the phone they were talking around £70 including the Ball
Which sounds OK to me, so after the Bank Holiday and when I know I've got 12 Volts at the Plug, after the Pressure Switch has been Plugged in, then I will pop over and see what they have got
Thanks for your help as always, I really appreciate that
ALex
Its got Steel Rings that are hammered flat into the side of the Casing, so while I could probably get it apart if I had to, it won't be a 'Walk in the Park' for me like it probably would be for you
And I very much doubt if they'd be any Change out of £100 to fix it, although I'm going to keep that as a 'Fall back option'
But there is a place not far me that dismantles Range Rovers where apart from a Slightly different Plug they look exactly the same and over the phone they were talking around £70 including the Ball
Which sounds OK to me, so after the Bank Holiday and when I know I've got 12 Volts at the Plug, after the Pressure Switch has been Plugged in, then I will pop over and see what they have got
Thanks for your help as always, I really appreciate that
ALex
#20
One week out of April gone and we haven't even been out for a Trip yet
Thanks for all your help and one way or another, I'll get 'The Ice Princess' back on the road.