OMG! Now that is what I call a disaster movie!

I'm even expecting to see Bruce Willis come jumping out in another attempt to try and save the World.

I'd love to see a Breakdown Service, trying to fix that at the side of the road!

So what the hell happened there!

 

Maybe I'll pull the trigger and see what happens!

According to the pressure gauge, they are already to go.

 

Hang on while I look that up in my 'dictionary!' lol

 

Hi Greg

Having spent days on bleeding the Brakes and getting the Pedal 'Rock Hard' which I think was more by luck than judgement, the very last thing that I wanted to do, was take the Calipers off to re grease the front hub.

The reason being the last time, that I did something like that, when I put the Calipers back on the 'Rotors' I had to ease the pistons back, in order to get the brake pads over the discs.

Which in turn sent some brake fluid back up to the Master Cylinder, which played havoc with the valves, leaving me with a Car that snatches violently to the left when applying the brakes.

So I didn't want to take a chance that this might happen again and although I could have prevented that by disconnecting the brake pipe, it took so long to bleed those brakes, I didn't really want to do that either.

As I wasn't certain that the squealing noise on corners, was to do with the bearings in the hub, I came up with another way to grease them and would like to know what you think.

Having removed the grease cap, I then undid the split pin and removed the castellated nut, which was followed by the 'big steel washer' then I took out the front bearing and examined it for wear.

It was in A1 condition and surrounded by plenty of grease, although of course I couldn't see the rear bearing, so rightly or wrongly presumed that it might be ok, as the Rotor was turning freely with no funny noises or play.

Then I took an old grease cap off my 'scrapper' and having drilled a hole in the middle of it, fitted it with a grease nipple.

Then with the front bearing and washer, still out of the front hub, I tapped this modified grease cap back, in place of the one I took off.

Then connected the grease gun and gently pumped the front hub full of grease, and also turned the Rotor to help it flow in, then removed the modified grease cap and put the front bearing back in and bolted it up.

While I was pumping the grease in, the normal friction of the cap was enough to keep it in and the whole thing worked like a charm, after which I replaced the original grease cap.

So would like to know what you thought of that idea, I also went out for another test drive, taking the same route as before and also got the squealing on the same corner, even though I was going quite slow.

Though this time it seemed to be coming from the drivers side and I'm thinking it could be the tyres as it sounded like tyre squeal, so maybe I'll try a couple of tyres from one of my other cars.

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Sounds good to me. Good luck with the squeal hunt!
Greg

 

Hi Greg

Cheers, if you approve then it must be ok!

 

Staedy on OB. Grant Francis and a couple of others is the only really knowledgeable guy here IMO. I am just a hobbyist who happens to have mispent many years messing around and learned by trial and error like most others (no names no packdrill !), and with a GREAT deal of help from a number of friends throughout my life who are experts. Also, by the by, I am always making tools up to get jobs done more easily and without too much painful disassembly. Just made something to change a completely collapsed front lower wishbone forward bush, with only the spring removed, without dropping the cage! eg:
The tool (a nut welded onto a threaded rod and ground down so it fits inside the bush)

Levering out the utterly shot rubbish material bush that lasted 10,000 miles

Pushing in the new metalastic bush with the tool (the old bush being the pusher against the new one)

All done and spring refitted:
:

Also, I have had a further thought about your squeal though, have a good look at the many fan belts, as the noise could well be fan belt squeal. Tighten up any that have more than half an inch of 'bend' in the middle between the pulleys. Then start her up and sparay a bit of W440 over them all as they rotate. Might just be that. Good luck with the alternator belt though, its an 'on your back job' so chock the thing up securely.

Greg

 

Slick. I do not have an XJS, but a XJ wuzza six.


Rusted manifold to down pipe issues and bodge results are ageless. As bodges go, this one isn't all that bad, but bad enough.


Many a tin or beer can plus hose clamps have found their way on to pipes in this manner.


An impact wrench air or electric is a very handy tool for stuff like this. IMPACT plus torque does wonders.


Before getting muy two impacts, I used a hammer driver. Did pretty good. slthough, a bit touch to smack it upwards as in your case.


The rusted steel nuts on the down pipe can be heated til the corrosion s lessened and then be removed with a well fitting socket.


My voter id impact first, and if no go, heat plus impact!!!


Carl

 

Hi Greg

With the greatest respect! You are being far too modest!

What you don't know, you don't need to know and that 'Bush' changing gadget is the Work of Genius!

Something like that can save people like me, literally hours of frustration, not to mention time and if I listed all the help that you have given me, then I would be typing letters of Thanks all night long!

And once again you may have come up with the answer!

As it sounds exactly like a 'Squealing' Belt!

Changing the Tyres didn't make any difference at all (my idea not yours)

I was getting Squealing on the Corners but now I'm also getting Squealing on the Straight!

When it first started to happen, it really made me 'Frit!' but now its so bad I am 'Fritting' Myself!, whenever I take the Car out!

If it wasn't so serious, then it would be funny! because, I'm beginning to feel like a Stunt Driver in a Car Chase Movie!

I took the Car out again tonight and as I went round a roundabout, as slowly as I could (20mph) it sounded like I was driving it like I stole it!
with a massive continuous 'Squealing' coming from the front end.

And to add weight to your 'Theory!, that it could be the Belts, The electric cooling fans cut in on the way home from a Test Drive and we are talking late evening, when it was cool outside.

So if I tightened the Belts up, wouldn't spraying them with WD 40 only make them slip?

Temperature wise, She's running cool all the time but this problem is really 'Freaking me out'! because it sounds just as if one or both of the Front Wheels are about to fall off!

And tonight I came back early, from another Test Drive for that very reason

So possible causes of Squealing:

(1) Loose Belts (Your idea which I will check out in the morning)

(2) The Inner bearing of the Front Hub passenger side, when the car nearly caught fire because of a Stuck Caliper!
But the 'Rotor' spins quite freely with no funny graunching noises.

(3) Brake Pad Squealing: I've got to be honest and tell you that I have no idea what that is!, as its something that I've never come across before on any Car.

But check this out, because you might find this unusual!

As the Brake Pads I took out, were somewhat different to the 'New Ones', I replaced them with!

The 'New Ones' looked exactly the same as the 'Old Ones', except for 'ONE' (and this could be the cause of the problem!) Vital Difference!

Because each of these New Brake Pads had a Loose Thin Metal Cover on the Back, that went between the Pistons in the Calipers and the back of the Brake Pad!

So if you can imagine it, When you put the Brakes on, the Pistons in the Calipers, would first push onto this thin metal 'Cover Plate', which in turn would then push on to the back of the Brake Pads.

This loose Metal Plate was in there like a 'Sandwich' between the Caliper Pistons and the Back of the Brake Pads!

So much easier to explain with a Photo, which I will try and get in the morning.

I've never seen anything like this before and was wondering what sort of purpose these 'Plates' were serving, as there didn't seem any good reason, for them being there!

The Old Pads didn't have them or anything like them!

So there is a possibility that these 'Thin loose Metal Cover Plates' have been 'preventing or jamming' the Brake Pads onto the Rotors, instead of allowing them to retract when you take your foot off the Brake.

I'll take one out and get you a Photo so you can see what I mean.

 

Hi Carl

Thanks for replying!

This Bodge up repair was obviously the work of one of those Exhaust Fitting Shops, as I know the previous owner would almost certainly never do something like that.

It does the Job at the moment but I have no idea what that Tin Can is concealing!

It may just be a very small hole, or joining both pipes together, so as soon as I have got the Squealing problem sorted out, I will let the GF's Father fix it properly, as if it came apart it would be a disaster waiting to happen!

 

OB,

Pad squeal is very common with new pads. Those thin metal plates on the back of the pads are extremely common and are anti-squeal shims.

However, did you make sure you put a nice thin coat of copperease on the back of the pads? If not, go and do that to eliminate brake pad squeal.

If you've got a squealing belt, I would use Comma belt dressing spray. But be careful when you spray it, it can leave a sticky residue.

And don't be ashamed to call them brake discs, not rotors! After all, Jaguar made the cars here and fitted brake discs!

As always, good luck

Paul

 

OB
Once the belts are properly tightened and the car is ticking over, for some reason I do not understand, a spray of WD40 does not make them slip, but quietens them down. you will be surprised!

AS PJTS1 has said, if the noise persists, the anti squeal shims may be making a noise. IMO I strongly suggest that you remove the bloody things. The brakes might squeal a little when applied for the first few miles; but not thereafter. And you will know the cause!

Greg

 

Hi Greg

Here we go!

I have never seen or heard of these Anti Squeal Shims before but as they were in the box with the Pads, I somehow felt compelled to put them on, in the same way I'm now feeling compelled to take the 'Blinkin' things off!

The Photos I have taken, are with an 'Old Brake Pad' as I wanted to leave the 'New Pads' in place, to prevent the Caliper Cylinders closing up.

I just couldn't figure out what their purpose was and even had a nightmare that they might be nothing more than packing pieces, to protect the Brake Pads while in transit!

Why on earth would you need them, when you already have the 'Anti Rattle' springs?

As soon as I took these 'Shims' out, the first thing that I noticed was the 'Pads' had more room to move. (until the Caliper Pistons pushed on them) so wonder if the 'Shims' were jamming the Brake Pads in some way?

So I am going to take your advice and take out the rest of these shims, then that will be another thing we can eliminate!

Last night when I went for a 'Test Drive' the constant 'Squealing' was so bad, I honestly thought the Wheels were coming off, as it is the kind of sound you hear when someone goes into a skid but all the time!

I'm now about to Check the belts, which could be the number (1) suspect! and will report back.

At the back of my mind I am wondering if the inner bearing on the front hub has broke up, because of the fact that the wheel got so hot, when the Front Caliper seized!

But when I spin the Road Wheel by hand, it is as sweet as a nut, with no funny noises whatsoever and no splattering of bearing grease at all!

The noise sounds more like the Squealing of Rubber than anything else, although other passing Motorists, could be forgiven for thinking, that I am either taking the corners too fast or just 'Burning Rubber'

This noise starts to happen at almost any speed and in any direction of travel and has almost got to the point where I'm scared to drive the Car!

So next job Check the Belts!

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Hi Paul

Is this constant Squealing noise Common with New Brake Pads, as it doesn't seem to want to go away and is so loud its almost deafening!

I did put plenty of Copper Grease on, but wiped it off for the Photo.

Greg could be right! It could be the Belts which I'm now about to check on but if none of this works, then the only thing left, is the inner wheel bearing on the front hub!

This problem is literally shredding my nerves, I've never experienced any thing like this before!

Thanks for Your Help.

 

OB
Thanks for posting the photos of the shims. For goodness sake chuck them. They look quite thick, and it is possible that the caliper pistons cannot quite retract far enough to let the pad completely disengage from the disc - hence the squeal.

Not to be a Cassandra, but is your pedal still rock hard? If so, you could, repeat could, have a problem with the ABS that is somehow keeping the pads in contact with the discs. I know nothing at all about ABS, so someone else will have to opine. The one ABS model I had, the pedal felt quite normal. Anyway, chuck the shims and then see, maybe the pedal will be normal afterwards, who knows?

Greg

 

Hi Greg

I've taken the Shims out of one side and am about to do the other, as you correctly pointed out they look and feel a bit thick and they seem to put the Brake Pad in the Caliper at a place where it looks like it gets jammed!

How do I know? Well after examining the Brake Pads, when I took them out, (looking at them longways and Holding them Horizontally)

The Bit near where the Pins go through looked quite normal and shiny, while the other half was covered in a sheen of rust, just as if you had dunked half of it in water and left it outside over night.

So it certainly looks like those Shims were causing a Problem! But maybe not THE PROBLEM!

As following your Instructions, I did a check on the Belts and they are all very nice and tight except ONE!

This is the one on the Water Pump and although its got a 'Toothed Belt' on it, the pulley with the Big Yellow Fan, can be easily spun around, just by holding it in between your Thumb and your forefinger, With no effort at all!

How come that the Toothed Belt doesn't grip it, I thought that was the idea! but it could also explain why the Fans cut in, even though it was a cool night on the Test Drive.

So just when you start to get thinking, that things couldn't get any worse, unlike the other adjusters on all the other Belts, this one on the Water Pump Pulley, is Rusted absolutely blinking solid!!!

So maybe some 'mechanic' who was working on the Car, just said WTF it's been working alright so I'll leave it!

Owing to the lack of space and close proximity to the Radiator!, this is going to be an absolute 'Biatch!' but maybe not as bad as the one that I am now about to upset, as I've 'nicked' her Nail Varnish Remover from her bag!

As She went out Shopping and left her Mobile behind, so that I couldn't ask her in person.

Which I normally wouldn't do but this is really and very clearly a case of 'Needs must, while the 'Devil Rides!' but when She comes in and finds it gone then I think She might possibly Kill me!

So putting on my Wizard's Hat and taking out my Wand, (does that sound perverted to You?) I'm mixing up a Cocktail of ATF and Acetone, which in your honor I'm calling 'Greg's Nut Juice!'

So while I am waiting to see if it works, as WD has not done the business, do you think this pulley, could be the cause of the Squealing?

 

I think from what you have said that the shims are the cause (or it is an as yet unknown ABS brake problem). It is clear the pads are not seating properly are far more likely to be the shims. But equally a belt that loose can make a huge noise. The fan belt is a MUST to tighten, as the water pump not turning properly will cause disaster if not fixed. A toothed belt should be quite OK, so remove shims, tighten belt and see. If all is well, put a replace-all-belts day onto your winter schedule.

The water pump belt also drives the power steering and the adjuster is bit hard to get at, BUT you MUST also loosen the end of the adjuster where it is fixed to the block and also the end where it fixes it to the pump frame. If not you will break/bend something as the angle changes. Also, to make it more of a sod, there is a bolt UNDER the pump that the pump hinges on, this too must be loosened as the pump swivels out when the adjuster is tightened, much like an alternator does. You think all this will not matter but it does and the belt will not tighten properly unless all these are loosened a tad first. Having done that you can get quite rock-ape with the adjuster bolts themselves, as they are steel on a steel rod, but leave the nut mixture on for a day or two first.

You are getting there, it is just that when an XJS selects a caring owner, that poor sod has to undo years of neglect and bodge before the goddess reveals her true beauty and wonder (much like the GF ?)

Greg

 

Hi Greg

This is not looking good! Not at all like the Stroll in the Park that I was expecting!

Those Brake Pads were a 'Biatch' to get out, they were jammed in the Caliper Solid! Thanks to those Shims!

Take a look at the Photo and you will see what I mean, they were not seating correctly that is for sure!

Note the discoloration, where they were not touching the 'Rotors' and all Four of them looked like that! after about 100 miles of Test Driving.

I thought that the Brakes were impressive! but that was only with half the Pad in Contact with the 'Rotor!' which there was no way that I was able to see up until now!

I'm going to 'Splosh' some more 'Nut Juice' on and see if there is any movement but its probably 'Too early doors' to hope for a result.

Good job you told me about those other Nuts!

I will keep you updated, if there is any progress!

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OB,

It feels that you need to determine quickly if your squeal is related to bearings, brakes or engine bay.

It should be pretty easy to do that just by driving down the road and doing a few things.

Most wheel bearing noises change significantly, the noise either starting or stopping, when you load up or release the bearing tension by turning right or left.

An engine belt squeal is nearly always worse when you load the throttle. So, if the noise is happening as you drive down the road, try just taking your foot on and off the throttle and see if the noise changes. If the noise is constant as you drive along, just slip the gearbox into neutral and release the throttle. If the noise doesn't immediately stop, then it probably isn't a belt.

Most brake squeals will change the moment you put on the brakes or release them.

So, a few really simple tests that should immediately help you to know where the noise is coming from.

Paul

 

OB
Having seen the pics, I would be amazed if the squealing was not the brake pads being held in permanent partial contact with the discs and vibrating accordingly. If so, there is a good chance this also accounts for your solid brake pedal, as they are never properly coming off!

One other thing, did the pads slip fairly easily into the calipers once the shims were out? They should. If not do not be afraid to grind a little metal off the edges so that they can slip in and out of the caliper without jamming. I once looked at a mate's car that was pulling like a sod to the left, and found his garage had hammered the pads into the caliper because they were a bit tight, result the caliper on the right was not able to push the pad at all!

The belt is a must, for water circulation reasons, even if not the source of the squeal. So, it seems to me from this far away and with glass in hand, that the XJS Gods are being kind to you, by saving your engine from melting though poor water circulation! A squeal of pain, in fact !


Greg