Would the XJS be Safer with more weight in the Boot/Trunk?
#21
06-15-2016, 05:26 AM
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Greg
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#22
06-15-2016, 09:52 AM
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#23
06-15-2016, 10:58 AM
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My car only loses the rear in the wet when I forget it is wet, it has also become more noticeable as my tires have worn. After you get past that initial torque breaking the static friction, it sticks to the road pretty well.
The gas tank is right over the friggin rear end, so that is quite a bit of downforce. If in doubt, look for better tires.
The gas tank is right over the friggin rear end, so that is quite a bit of downforce. If in doubt, look for better tires.
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#24
06-15-2016, 05:47 PM
NEVER EVER let anyone else drive your cars. Has worked for me for many years. If they must drive your car, (kids learning to drive etc. ) buy a cheap beater car that you don't care that much about.
That really works out much cheaper if your pride and joy gets totaled in the long run
Simples......
That really works out much cheaper if your pride and joy gets totaled in the long run
Simples......
I did let a GF drive me once in one of my first XJS's and because She was unable to see the end of the Bonnet/Hood, She very nearly rear ended another Car.
And having learned from that experience, I've never let anyone else drive my Car and I never will.
#25
06-15-2016, 05:51 PM
My car only loses the rear in the wet when I forget it is wet, it has also become more noticeable as my tires have worn. After you get past that initial torque breaking the static friction, it sticks to the road pretty well.
The gas tank is right over the friggin rear end, so that is quite a bit of downforce. If in doubt, look for better tires.
The gas tank is right over the friggin rear end, so that is quite a bit of downforce. If in doubt, look for better tires.
She always sticks to the road like glue but we've had a few rainstorms in the UK and so in those conditions, I always make sure that I take it easy.
#26
06-15-2016, 05:56 PM
'Tis the limited slip differential that plays a big role in these types of spin outs.
Rounding a corner, low traction surface, too much power applied.....
With a standard diff the inside tire will spin madly but the other three tires maintain traction and the car remains pointed in the desired direction.
With a limited slip diff both rear tires break traction. You know the rest
Cheers
DD
Rounding a corner, low traction surface, too much power applied.....
With a standard diff the inside tire will spin madly but the other three tires maintain traction and the car remains pointed in the desired direction.
With a limited slip diff both rear tires break traction. You know the rest
Cheers
DD
Bang on with that comment but having had that 'wake up call' I'm taking it a lot more easy now.
#27
06-15-2016, 05:59 PM
#28
06-15-2016, 06:06 PM
I think this idea is entertained during winter on the snow, when extra weight would push snow around and make rear wheels more likely to contact the road. I doubt it will help when cornering in general.
I haven't driven my XJS on wet road yet... but it scares me a bit because in the rain ABS on my XJ8 is kicking-in very often(and I am having fun with it!)... what am I going to do without ABS on XJS? I will forget that it's not there...
I haven't driven my XJS on wet road yet... but it scares me a bit because in the rain ABS on my XJ8 is kicking-in very often(and I am having fun with it!)... what am I going to do without ABS on XJS? I will forget that it's not there...
I've heard that ABS in Snow or in Icy conditions, can sometime make it difficult to brake, so now I've fitted a cut out switch, so that I am able to turn off the ABS, if I should ever want to.
#29
06-16-2016, 02:17 AM
Veteran Member
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
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#30
06-16-2016, 04:47 AM
Alan
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
Thanks
Although I cannot imagine, ever taking the XJS out in the Snow or the rain for that matter, unless I got unexpectedly caught out in a rainstorm.
#31
06-16-2016, 05:37 AM
Veteran Member
Alan
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
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#32
06-16-2016, 09:41 AM
Veteran Member
Alan
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
This is a bit of an OWT. In really thick snow there is a theory that it is better to lock the brakes as then a huge cushion of snow builds up in front of each tyre and this, allegedly, gives better retardation than the ABS (ie like ploughing into 4 mini snowdrifts). Personally I think it a bit far fetched. certainly on ice, ABS is better for most drivers.
On the point of tyre widths, if you take a look at the rally cars in the Swedish and Finnish winter rallies on snow and ice stages, they fit tyres that look like bike tyres, with studs too of course.
The point of the narrow tyres is to greatly increase the pounds per square inch on the contact patch, thus cutting down through the loose top snow layer to dig the studs in. This is an extreme case of why cars with very wide tyres are a handful in the wet, compared to the same car with narrower ones. Getting the tyre down to the tarmac instead of skating on the water layer is the key. All road cars tyre specifications are therefore a compromise between dry road grip and wet road grip, more of one, less of the other.
As someone mentioned in another thread, a Lotus Exige is a better handling car than a Luxo barge Roller, but in the wet, not so much, I am guessing!
Greg
that is correct. the difference is between how you should break on a regular hard paved surface verse and Unpaved loose surface. test show that locking you wheels on unpacked loose gravel, sand, dirt and snow stops the car faster that letting the ABS do its rolling tire thing... newer more advanced system can now even determine which type of surface you are on and break using the best technique for that surface...
We are driving Classic older cars... and must have the skills to do so safely and require all that would venture behind the wheel to keep this in mind
I guess I should keep it in mind to take my wife out and coach her with her behind the wheel
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#33
06-16-2016, 11:50 AM
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I am not much on driving in the snow, but I've done it.
In late December of 1954, I was driving my new to me 50
Chevrolet from Worms to Lutjenburg in Germany. Snow on the
autobahn, lots of it. Well, the tires on my newly acquired Chev
were less than good. I came to on hill that in spite of several efforts,
I could not top. Tried an off ramp. Oh, oh, couldn't hold the turn
and hit the guard rail. Steel in the cold is brittle. bumper cracked and the filler panel got a bit of crunch. Luckily, no worse.
I found a nearby small garage. OK. Off with the fender skirts and n to the boot/trunk with them. Rears got chains. Sure looked like GI issue.
Paid up and hit it again. Got it. Reported on time and all was well.
I took leave to be present for first borne. Naah, she came later.
The trait exists to now!!
Around here rain can raise traffic havoc. Folks don't get it.
1. First rain means an oily emulsion on the roads. Slick, beware of sudden moves, braking accelerating or even turning.
2. Tires can water plane. Known as Hydroplaning. No steering response. Most folks recognize these and adjust. Others, not so much, fender benders abound.
3. In my early days in Texas, driving in the rain was fun. But, speeds much slower and a whole lot less traffic.
4. In about 65, we lived in SOCAl's San Fernando Valley. One morning
it rained, hard. I left for work in my 63 Corvair, four on the floor Corvair Monza coupe. I needed to cross a somewhat deep gutter. Whoah, the rear came float enough to break forward traction for
more than a moment.
Carl
In late December of 1954, I was driving my new to me 50
Chevrolet from Worms to Lutjenburg in Germany. Snow on the
autobahn, lots of it. Well, the tires on my newly acquired Chev
were less than good. I came to on hill that in spite of several efforts,
I could not top. Tried an off ramp. Oh, oh, couldn't hold the turn
and hit the guard rail. Steel in the cold is brittle. bumper cracked and the filler panel got a bit of crunch. Luckily, no worse.
I found a nearby small garage. OK. Off with the fender skirts and n to the boot/trunk with them. Rears got chains. Sure looked like GI issue.
Paid up and hit it again. Got it. Reported on time and all was well.
I took leave to be present for first borne. Naah, she came later.
The trait exists to now!!
Around here rain can raise traffic havoc. Folks don't get it.
1. First rain means an oily emulsion on the roads. Slick, beware of sudden moves, braking accelerating or even turning.
2. Tires can water plane. Known as Hydroplaning. No steering response. Most folks recognize these and adjust. Others, not so much, fender benders abound.
3. In my early days in Texas, driving in the rain was fun. But, speeds much slower and a whole lot less traffic.
4. In about 65, we lived in SOCAl's San Fernando Valley. One morning
it rained, hard. I left for work in my 63 Corvair, four on the floor Corvair Monza coupe. I needed to cross a somewhat deep gutter. Whoah, the rear came float enough to break forward traction for
more than a moment.
Carl
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#34
06-16-2016, 12:25 PM
Veteran Member
Tires make a huge difference to braking performance, as does temperature and the kind of snow. Depends on the underlying road surface too and the conditions when it snowed. Was the road warm when it snowed, so the snow melted and then it cooled off and a froze, so there is a layer of ice under the snow? Or was it cold and the snow is sitting on the road? What's underneath? Hard packed snow or pavement?
Different countries have different approaches too, in Scandinavia they plough the snow to make it flat and that's it. Cars run with studded tires to give grip. In Canada they scrape the snow down to tarmac and add salt and gravel to melt the snow/ice and the goal is to get back to bare pavement (tarmac in the UK). Studded tires are illegal because of the damage they do to the road surface. Also on bare pavement the studs can act like being on ice, they don't grip as well as rubber so can increase the braking distance greatly.
After saying all that, I find I can always stop shorter in snow/ice with ABS active than not. I have compared my Series III V12 with with and without ABS, when the ABS wasn't working and it stopped shorter with ABS even though it was an early ABS system.
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#35
06-16-2016, 02:14 PM
Banned
I live in Canada and have driven my Jaguars through many winters and I've not found that to be that case. Of course there are many kinds of snow and braking will change depending upon the type. I think the Inuit have something like 30 different words for snow, it certainly isn't monolithic.
Tires make a huge difference to braking performance, as does temperature and the kind of snow. Depends on the underlying road surface too and the conditions when it snowed. Was the road warm when it snowed, so the snow melted and then it cooled off and a froze, so there is a layer of ice under the snow? Or was it cold and the snow is sitting on the road? What's underneath? Hard packed snow or pavement?
Different countries have different approaches too, in Scandinavia they plough the snow to make it flat and that's it. Cars run with studded tires to give grip. In Canada they scrape the snow down to tarmac and add salt and gravel to melt the snow/ice and the goal is to get back to bare pavement (tarmac in the UK). Studded tires are illegal because of the damage they do to the road surface. Also on bare pavement the studs can act like being on ice, they don't grip as well as rubber so can increase the braking distance greatly.
After saying all that, I find I can always stop shorter in snow/ice with ABS active than not. I have compared my Series III V12 with with and without ABS, when the ABS wasn't working and it stopped shorter with ABS even though it was an early ABS system.
Tires make a huge difference to braking performance, as does temperature and the kind of snow. Depends on the underlying road surface too and the conditions when it snowed. Was the road warm when it snowed, so the snow melted and then it cooled off and a froze, so there is a layer of ice under the snow? Or was it cold and the snow is sitting on the road? What's underneath? Hard packed snow or pavement?
Different countries have different approaches too, in Scandinavia they plough the snow to make it flat and that's it. Cars run with studded tires to give grip. In Canada they scrape the snow down to tarmac and add salt and gravel to melt the snow/ice and the goal is to get back to bare pavement (tarmac in the UK). Studded tires are illegal because of the damage they do to the road surface. Also on bare pavement the studs can act like being on ice, they don't grip as well as rubber so can increase the braking distance greatly.
After saying all that, I find I can always stop shorter in snow/ice with ABS active than not. I have compared my Series III V12 with with and without ABS, when the ABS wasn't working and it stopped shorter with ABS even though it was an early ABS system.
Probably same reason abs is now a universal fitment to modern cars , despite some car enthusiasts believing, incorrectly in my opinion, that they have skills that enable them to brake better than abs system can there will be loads of statistical evidence that cars are safer with abs than without.
Also I would be fairly certain that in most countries insurance would be void with that modification.
The poster who has abs disable switch would be well advised to consult insurance company. Be a shame to be involved in an accident then be told you have no insurance due to your modification.
If anyone believe that they can practice cadence braking technique at six cycles per sec that early generation abs can manage I respectfully beg to doubt it.
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#36
06-16-2016, 03:44 PM
Senior Member
Hi Folks,
Lot of food for thought on this thread.
I have only had my XJ-S for a year and have been very impressed by its handling for a large car. Really sticks to the road through fast corners and my confidence has grown enormously.
However, recently I managed to kiss an overgrown kerb with both front and rear nearside wheels whilst trying to see down the side of a slow moving lorry to see if it was safe to pull out and overtake. The front wheels just glanced off but the rear of the car jumped out and I had to get opposite lock on pretty quick to stop the car really taking over. Having done this the car recovered really well but it made be appreciate how sensitive the rear end seems to be compared with the front.
Certainly agree with Jagbois64 re tyres. I had the pleasure of working in Canada (BC) for a while and it was certainly clear that 2 wheel drive cars with snow tyres were safer than 4 wheel drive cars on ordinary tyres.
Take care and stay safe.
Cheers,
Leep
Lot of food for thought on this thread.
I have only had my XJ-S for a year and have been very impressed by its handling for a large car. Really sticks to the road through fast corners and my confidence has grown enormously.
However, recently I managed to kiss an overgrown kerb with both front and rear nearside wheels whilst trying to see down the side of a slow moving lorry to see if it was safe to pull out and overtake. The front wheels just glanced off but the rear of the car jumped out and I had to get opposite lock on pretty quick to stop the car really taking over. Having done this the car recovered really well but it made be appreciate how sensitive the rear end seems to be compared with the front.
Certainly agree with Jagbois64 re tyres. I had the pleasure of working in Canada (BC) for a while and it was certainly clear that 2 wheel drive cars with snow tyres were safer than 4 wheel drive cars on ordinary tyres.
Take care and stay safe.
Cheers,
Leep
#37
06-16-2016, 05:25 PM
Veteran Member
And AWD with winter tires is the best! That's why I love my X Type, it's amazing in winter.
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#38
06-17-2016, 01:39 AM
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#39
06-17-2016, 02:29 AM
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Paul:
As to voiding insurance. Only, sorta. If one chooses to lock out the ABS and is involved in an accident, the insurance is not void. There is no basis in a USA insurance contract to allow that.
However, it sure has the right to cancel the policy and return any unearned premium.
And discovering that the ABS system was modified is even more problematical.
And, further, their must be nexus between the disconnect and the cause of the accident.
Doug:
Not to completely disagree. Open differential n the wet. All the torque foes to the spinning wheel, the other gets little or none. Result, no forward force, inertia only. Crazy thing happen.
My neighbor decided to Rototill and plant a narrow strip of bare ground between their driveway and mine. Used the conventional machine first. Then decided to put the right wheels of their big Dodge
4x4 pickup in the patch and churn it some more. Did that, sorta.
But, got stuck. Right wheels churned merrily, the tires on solid concrete did nothing. Open diffs front and rear doing their thing.
Had one or both been LSD, the wheel/s on concrete would have easily moved the truck out.
A bit of humor, "big bad 4x4" stuck in front yard!
Extracted by another 4x4, on hard top alone!!!
Carl
As to voiding insurance. Only, sorta. If one chooses to lock out the ABS and is involved in an accident, the insurance is not void. There is no basis in a USA insurance contract to allow that.
However, it sure has the right to cancel the policy and return any unearned premium.
And discovering that the ABS system was modified is even more problematical.
And, further, their must be nexus between the disconnect and the cause of the accident.
Doug:
Not to completely disagree. Open differential n the wet. All the torque foes to the spinning wheel, the other gets little or none. Result, no forward force, inertia only. Crazy thing happen.
My neighbor decided to Rototill and plant a narrow strip of bare ground between their driveway and mine. Used the conventional machine first. Then decided to put the right wheels of their big Dodge
4x4 pickup in the patch and churn it some more. Did that, sorta.
But, got stuck. Right wheels churned merrily, the tires on solid concrete did nothing. Open diffs front and rear doing their thing.
Had one or both been LSD, the wheel/s on concrete would have easily moved the truck out.
A bit of humor, "big bad 4x4" stuck in front yard!
Extracted by another 4x4, on hard top alone!!!
Carl
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