XJR-S IRS overhaul, Harvey Bailey install and Upgrades
#21
06-26-2016, 08:44 AM
Senior Member
Lawrence:
Yeah, the 6 sp approach with the T56 is hopeless for many reasons on this car. The double overdrive is the beginning.
The 6 speed I am going to do is the Richmond, which, today I discovered, is NLA! That is really too bad, because that is the only box where you can dial in the ratios you want to run.
Everything else forces other compromises that aren't all that pretty.
You've gone the best way for 5 speeds, though. The wide ratio box I have is more suited to 3.31 gearing, for which I had a diff loaded with this while doing the IRS rebuild 2 yrs ago. But, I needed the speedo pickup on the diff, and a 3.54 came along at the time I had the cage apart, and that went in instead. all of which meant that the problem got pushed to the box again. That is OK, because while I like the Tremec, I really want 5 gears that are not OD, and I want the benefits a close ratio set offers.
Hanging in for the Richmond 6....we shall see...
The alternative for 5 speed guys, who don't change their 2.88 diff, is the Geforce. Here, you can again dial in the gears, and a mid 3's first is possible, making that 2.88 workable.
-M
Yeah, the 6 sp approach with the T56 is hopeless for many reasons on this car. The double overdrive is the beginning.
The 6 speed I am going to do is the Richmond, which, today I discovered, is NLA! That is really too bad, because that is the only box where you can dial in the ratios you want to run.
Everything else forces other compromises that aren't all that pretty.
You've gone the best way for 5 speeds, though. The wide ratio box I have is more suited to 3.31 gearing, for which I had a diff loaded with this while doing the IRS rebuild 2 yrs ago. But, I needed the speedo pickup on the diff, and a 3.54 came along at the time I had the cage apart, and that went in instead. all of which meant that the problem got pushed to the box again. That is OK, because while I like the Tremec, I really want 5 gears that are not OD, and I want the benefits a close ratio set offers.
Hanging in for the Richmond 6....we shall see...
The alternative for 5 speed guys, who don't change their 2.88 diff, is the Geforce. Here, you can again dial in the gears, and a mid 3's first is possible, making that 2.88 workable.
-M
4.46, 2.61, 1.72, 1.25, 1.00, 0.84,
I'm don't know how hard it would be to adapt but it's a German made transmission. it has the integral bellhousing which may or may not complicate adapting it.
wayne
Last edited by swayne; 06-26-2016 at 08:47 AM.
#22
06-26-2016, 09:40 AM
Wayne:
Interesting ratios.
First gear would give a total ratio of 4.41*2.88 = 12.84.
I am running 3.27*3.54 = 11.57. What I am running is pretty short gearing, and I would not want the total ratio to be higher. I can easily start off in 2nd, for example without any drama.
In fact, my next move is to use a 3.04 first gear against the 3.54, for a total ratio of 3.04*3.54=10.76, a number very similar to the OEM XJS 4 speed + 3.31 diff (something like a 3.24 first gear and a 3.31 diff, as introduced in what, 1977).
I would recommend against this (unless you have gotten a very good deal, and the box will fit up) as you may find this to effectively be a 5 speed box, first gear being much like a tractor gear. Might be good in very slow traffic, though. If you can deal with it more as a 5 speed, the spread from 2nd on is pretty decent.
-M
Interesting ratios.
First gear would give a total ratio of 4.41*2.88 = 12.84.
I am running 3.27*3.54 = 11.57. What I am running is pretty short gearing, and I would not want the total ratio to be higher. I can easily start off in 2nd, for example without any drama.
In fact, my next move is to use a 3.04 first gear against the 3.54, for a total ratio of 3.04*3.54=10.76, a number very similar to the OEM XJS 4 speed + 3.31 diff (something like a 3.24 first gear and a 3.31 diff, as introduced in what, 1977).
I would recommend against this (unless you have gotten a very good deal, and the box will fit up) as you may find this to effectively be a 5 speed box, first gear being much like a tractor gear. Might be good in very slow traffic, though. If you can deal with it more as a 5 speed, the spread from 2nd on is pretty decent.
-M
#23
06-26-2016, 03:35 PM
Senior Member
Wayne:
Interesting ratios.
First gear would give a total ratio of 4.41*2.88 = 12.84.
I am running 3.27*3.54 = 11.57. What I am running is pretty short gearing, and I would not want the total ratio to be higher. I can easily start off in 2nd, for example without any drama.
In fact, my next move is to use a 3.04 first gear against the 3.54, for a total ratio of 3.04*3.54=10.76, a number very similar to the OEM XJS 4 speed + 3.31 diff (something like a 3.24 first gear and a 3.31 diff, as introduced in what, 1977).
I would recommend against this (unless you have gotten a very good deal, and the box will fit up) as you may find this to effectively be a 5 speed box, first gear being much like a tractor gear. Might be good in very slow traffic, though. If you can deal with it more as a 5 speed, the spread from 2nd on is pretty decent.
-M
Interesting ratios.
First gear would give a total ratio of 4.41*2.88 = 12.84.
I am running 3.27*3.54 = 11.57. What I am running is pretty short gearing, and I would not want the total ratio to be higher. I can easily start off in 2nd, for example without any drama.
In fact, my next move is to use a 3.04 first gear against the 3.54, for a total ratio of 3.04*3.54=10.76, a number very similar to the OEM XJS 4 speed + 3.31 diff (something like a 3.24 first gear and a 3.31 diff, as introduced in what, 1977).
I would recommend against this (unless you have gotten a very good deal, and the box will fit up) as you may find this to effectively be a 5 speed box, first gear being much like a tractor gear. Might be good in very slow traffic, though. If you can deal with it more as a 5 speed, the spread from 2nd on is pretty decent.
-M
Mike
This is the 6 speed manual transmission in the Chrysler Crossfire. I have one of those cars and can get a trans,master, slave cylinder clutch assy and flywheel for 5-600. NSG-370 is the transmission model,chrysler sourced this from Mercedes when building the Crossfire.
The only reason for the extra parts would be for fabbing up purposes.
Have a machinist friend with 4 Axis cnc, wife proficient in autocad and mechanical engineer daughter to help with designing spacer. My hesitation would be the gear ratios of transmission.
Crossfire has final drive ratio of 3.27. First gear propels it and gets the rpms up so as to be in the power range when shifting into second and onward,starting off in second is actually not a problem for normal driving.
wayne
#24
06-27-2016, 06:45 AM
Wayne:
You certainly have motivation, then, if you can gather the parts this reasonably.
You will have some modding to do; I would recommend you go to vintagejag.com and look for their notes/instructions package for manual transmission adaptation. This is a good set of notes covering the issues you will run into, and includes a full scale pattern for making an adapter plate for use in adapting bell housings to the Jag V12 interface.
Since Chrysler sourced the trans from Merc, it may not have the standard Chrysler input shaft dimensions and bell pattern. You will need to sort that out. The thing may be that you will have to take the trans apart only to remove, machine and replace the input shaft.
On the output, you will need to have one of the many shops make a drive shaft, and you know the aft end, but the front end will need to be made to suit your trans.
Usually, a suitable trans mount can be fabbed from modifying the TH400 autobox's mount.
Sound's like fun, good luck!
-M
You certainly have motivation, then, if you can gather the parts this reasonably.
You will have some modding to do; I would recommend you go to vintagejag.com and look for their notes/instructions package for manual transmission adaptation. This is a good set of notes covering the issues you will run into, and includes a full scale pattern for making an adapter plate for use in adapting bell housings to the Jag V12 interface.
Since Chrysler sourced the trans from Merc, it may not have the standard Chrysler input shaft dimensions and bell pattern. You will need to sort that out. The thing may be that you will have to take the trans apart only to remove, machine and replace the input shaft.
On the output, you will need to have one of the many shops make a drive shaft, and you know the aft end, but the front end will need to be made to suit your trans.
Usually, a suitable trans mount can be fabbed from modifying the TH400 autobox's mount.
Sound's like fun, good luck!
-M
#25
06-27-2016, 10:17 AM
Senior Member
Wayne:
You certainly have motivation, then, if you can gather the parts this reasonably.
You will have some modding to do; I would recommend you go to vintagejag.com and look for their notes/instructions package for manual transmission adaptation. This is a good set of notes covering the issues you will run into, and includes a full scale pattern for making an adapter plate for use in adapting bell housings to the Jag V12 interface.
Since Chrysler sourced the trans from Merc, it may not have the standard Chrysler input shaft dimensions and bell pattern. You will need to sort that out. The thing may be that you will have to take the trans apart only to remove, machine and replace the input shaft.
On the output, you will need to have one of the many shops make a drive shaft, and you know the aft end, but the front end will need to be made to suit your trans.
Usually, a suitable trans mount can be fabbed from modifying the TH400 autobox's mount.
Sound's like fun, good luck!
-M
You certainly have motivation, then, if you can gather the parts this reasonably.
You will have some modding to do; I would recommend you go to vintagejag.com and look for their notes/instructions package for manual transmission adaptation. This is a good set of notes covering the issues you will run into, and includes a full scale pattern for making an adapter plate for use in adapting bell housings to the Jag V12 interface.
Since Chrysler sourced the trans from Merc, it may not have the standard Chrysler input shaft dimensions and bell pattern. You will need to sort that out. The thing may be that you will have to take the trans apart only to remove, machine and replace the input shaft.
On the output, you will need to have one of the many shops make a drive shaft, and you know the aft end, but the front end will need to be made to suit your trans.
Usually, a suitable trans mount can be fabbed from modifying the TH400 autobox's mount.
Sound's like fun, good luck!
-M
I've considered all that already. I even had some wishful thinking that maybe since the original getrag manual trans was german maybe there wouldnt be that much difference in how the bellhousing mounted to the jag block.I realize thats some strong wishing, this trans was also used in jeeps so may have more similarities then we realize if memory serves me right thinking it had different input shaft depending on application.
At one time had a 6 speed out of 95 vette but canned that thought as it had double od.
Have a manual petal box already,need the petal and master cylinder though.I may just finish the restoration and color change and leave well enough alone.
I need to finish a pt cruiser project first, converting one to a sedan delivery, then I'll get back on the jag no need getting in a hurry its only been disassembled since 03.I'll have to check out the site you referenced, though appreciate the link.
Since I've become semi-retired and I've started being more selective on vehicles I choose to take in maybe it want be as long as it has been.Reading your posts on what you've done kinda stokes the fire.
Wayne
#26
04-24-2017, 02:23 AM
Just a quick update as I'm sure anyone looking at the HB anti tramp kit will want to know this. It's now just under a year since we put the kit on my XJR-S, I've probably done around 2000 miles in that time, including a trip to France. This year I've been doing some work on the front suspension, but while under the car checking things out we found that the HB crossover plate had cracks in it. Fortunately we caught them in time and were able to weld them up but it doesn't bode well. None of the miles I've done have been particularly hard, there's been no track days as such, so it seems that the plate is too thin.
What with the fitting issues and the durability its not been a particularly impressive product!
What with the fitting issues and the durability its not been a particularly impressive product!
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Greg in France (04-24-2017)
#27
04-24-2017, 07:49 AM
Banned
Just a quick update as I'm sure anyone looking at the HB anti tramp kit will want . This year I've been doing some work on the front suspension, but while under the car checking things out we found that the HB crossover plate had cracks in it. Fortunately we caught them in time and were able to weld them up but it doesn't bode well. None of the miles I've done have been particularly hard, there's been no track days as such, so it seems that the plate is too thin.
What with the fitting issues and the durability its not been a particularly impressive product!
What with the fitting issues and the durability its not been a particularly impressive product!
seriously heavy duty triangulation, and deletion of radius arms.
will post pictures of I can find them.
probably on this forum somewhere
The following users liked this post:
Greg in France (04-24-2017)
#28
04-24-2017, 07:57 AM
Senior Member
I installed the HB "X" bar on my 91 conv probably 15 years ago in order to stop "scuttle shake"or front end shimming at speeds over 60 mph. Mine does what its supposed too. My only draw backs were the price, around $350 USD back then and it does limit places to jacking up the front end. Also does effect ground clearance though I haven't had a problem what that yet.
I haven't check it for cracks yet but shore will after the heads up. Thanks
I haven't check it for cracks yet but shore will after the heads up. Thanks
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