I overheard an argument over all XJS's being handbuilt. Were they? I always thought it was only the TWR models which were hand modified so to speak.

 

A very interesting question. If you want to know exactly how they were put together, with loads of fascinating factory photos of the process, buy this book:
JAGUAR XJS - Fletcher, Rivers. | eBay~
The cars were built on a track; the monocoque and the body panels were stamped out and welded/bolted together as any mass production car of the era was. However, when you get to the assembly line, like all cars of that era assembly and installation of parts into the car was all by hand. Most interestingly, the body required quite a lot of "lead loading" this is the process by which a craftsman smooths off the joins between panels by hand using a wooden paddle and molten lead.


The V12 engine blocks and head were machined on a multistage huge machine tool line, but entirely assembled by hand thereafter.
Greg

 

My car is an 83 XJ6. I've had it since 2001. I've done a lot to it. I'm always impressed and admire the guys that built it. All kinds of fasteners and components that defy speedy assembly. A great example is he little rack on the fire wall for the relays. Teeny little bolt and nut In a secluded access location !!!


Carl

 

When you examine how they were assembled it's a wonder that Jaguar made any money at all. That's both a compliment and a criticism of Jaguar, depending on what particular thing we're talking about

The money spent on hand-assembling with all those tiny machine screws (with a flat washer, then a lock washer, in an awkward location) throughout the car could have been more wisely and usefully spent elsewhere. Maybe they could've upgraded the 59-cent window switches to the high-end 99-cent version!

Cheers
DD

 

Ha !!! Perhaps, they did not make any. Just fed upon themselves. Hence the sale to Ford !!!


Way back in my working days, I worked on a claim arising from a fire in a classic old restaurant on he peninsula. A youngish couple had just bought it from the older former owners and operators. The physical repairs quite basic. Included stoves. One actually was the cause of the fire.


But, the loss of business during the down time, known as "Business Interruption" was more complex. Using their records, I computed cost to do business and related it to sales. Not good. They took a loss on each plate served. It took a bit, but the couple finely got it. "If only we had done that before we bought the place". Repairs done, business resumed. But, later, I heard it was sold!!!


I wonder how Jaguar's "new" owners are doing??? The similarities have intrigued me since.


Carl

 

Since about 1972 they indeed never did, apart from a few years in the mid 1980s when fortuitous forward US$ exchange rate fixing helped enormously. As you said Carl, they essentially ate the fixed investment and did the absolute minimum of retooling. Ford did absolutely no due diligence on the production side, and got royally taken for a ride; except that they were 100% to blame for buying the ticket. When Ford's production chief first went to Browns Lane (after the purchase) he was absolutely stunned. He said that he had never seen a car factory as bad, old, antiquated and dreadful, except in the very worst plants in the old Soviet union.
TATA, and Indian-owned conglomerate now own Jaguar, Ford having basically given it to them, and Land Rover, so far so very good; but I am waiting for what happens when the Ford new model and production know-how "flywheel effect" runs out.

 

Lucas offered Jaguar instruments and switchgear of the same quality as supplied to Rolls Royce, for an incremental 5 UKP per car and got turned down. On the other hand, as you know, Jaguars cost about 50% or less of the competition's price. Basically the XJS is from an era where long-term reliability was just not a design parameter; in my view, it was only in the mid 1980s under Chairman John Egan, when Audi and Mercedes were starting to build their reputations for excellent executive cars in the UK, that Jaguar woke up to what was needed; a process that was forced to by Ford, ultimately, and resulted in very greatly improved JD power ratings

 

Lead loading on an xjs? You sure? When and where? None on my 89 convertible.

 

Greg, the entire line up today is pure Jaguar under Tata ownership. The only thing they have in common is the olt pattern, bhf then again, Ford tool that from Volvo (5x108). The last Jag with Ford backings was the S Type, and that is a while ago. Sure, the first XF had a few parts from the S Type/Lincoln LS platform, but that was it. The entire engine line up is all Jaguar. The suspension everythin else too. Never have Jags been more reliable and well built, compared to today.

I love my XJ-S to bits and am happy to have a Jag with absolutely NO Ford byproducts (like the Ford key which was introduced in 1990) but at the same time wish it had some Ford things, like the later XK8 electrical system...

My XJ8 is the best example of a 'quality' product 'made' by Jaguar... Basically one huge building site. Something always goes wrong with it. Always! I'm avoiding it for a week and going back to 'ol reliable (2002 Volvo S80 which gets NO care whatsoever!)...

I'm not sure what to totally expect when I'm done with my XJ-S. A reliable classic with that little 'omph' or another car which will want a repair every day. Though every day would mean I did a bad job

 

In the roof area on the coupé. You can't make an entire body from one sheet of metal. And industrial welds would be visible (see why the XJ40 had a little plstic clip on the C pillar). So these are leaded and smoothend out. Result: a 'flush' look of one single piece of sheet metal...

 

There’s also considerable lead on the door arpetures of the pre-92 cars. On my 83 car it was probably a good 3/16ths of an inch on both drivers and passenger shut panel. Appears to me the assembled the body with terrible door panel gaps and then lead loaded them and cut them back to an acceptable gap.

 

in the later "celebration" models there was a production run of cars that were badged "insignia" that were virtually hand made specials. ive seen a couple of them. One was recently sold on ebay for about 16 grand sterling. I think they must have been all 4 litre jobs.

 

leo,

The 57 XJS Insignia cars had been built well before the cars were called "Celebration". The Insignia cars were built to a base level in the same way as a "normal" XJS and on the same body production line. They were then given to the ex-DS420 workers who did the final completion and trimming etc. The only difference in an Insignia is really the external paint and some of the internal trim colours and material. So "hand-finished" rather than "hand-built". However, I expect you'll still find some lead-loading on them from the base body build!

Cheers

Paul

 

it was only from the fellow that owned and later sold it to import an r type nsx from japan
looked nice but not too different to a normal xjs coupe. cant remember what year but it looked pretty much like a celebration model.
not too bothered because mine isnt and never will be anything like it

 

The XF is still built on the Ford DEW platform shared by Lincoin

The Diesel engines were a JV Ford PSA and built by Ford. Not sure about the petrol engines, I heard that Jaguar were developing their own power plants.

 

The cars that were really hand built are the Aston Martin DB7s. They were built on the "basic" XJS platform at the TWR facility. These bodies are constructed of steel stampings unlike earlier and later models which were constructed of aluminium panels. The DB7 was the car that saved Aston, as production was way up compared to the old days. I went to look at a DB7 for sale and it "felt" a lot like an XJS. Hand built is pretty synonymous with coachbuilt, but i think that is more a matter of exclusivity than actual quality.

 

IIRC the current XF uses a different arcitecure now as it is fully aluminium. The first XF was IIRC steel bodied. There was only one Lincoln to use the Plattform and that ended long ago.

The engines are easy... V8 is Jaguar but patents and licenses belongated to Ford. V6 (90°) is a V8 adaption. V6 (60°) aRe from Ford. The early 2.0l 4 cylinders are Ford Ecoboost engines (around 200-240hp). The currently 2.0l diesels are Jaguar/Land Rover Ingenium. The 2.2l diesels were PSA adaptions. Also used in the Transit.

 

I really like the enthusiasm on this site. lol

I honestly was expecting 1 reply. "Hand Built" or "Not Hand Built"

 

Why use only one word, when a hundred are available? Lot's of knowledge available here as well as an unlimited number of opinions! This forum is a great resource as well as a lot of fun.

 

Nothing is that easy !

Cheers
DD