forcedair1, i hope you are correct about mileage, here is a pic of my odmeter 1978 XJS, BUT speedometer did not work for around 5yrs! YUP, 23342 miles! i have only put ,maybe 5000 since i owned the car

also my car was from Kent England, and always was custom modified car, 1st modded (by Aston Martin Tickford),someplace around 1980-81, so most likely never was a daily driver.

Jaguar Heritage says it should never been allowed to leave UK, some crap about British museum treasures or some such stuff!

 

Ronbros, are you talking about the miles on the SL's and XJS' on my recent post? There could always be exceptions, such as it is the case with your own XJS, but I would imagine that most ads are showing/claiming unaltered miles and that the contrary would be an exception. I apologize if I have misinterpreted your preceding post.

Cheers,

 

Great comparison Reinaldo. I actually was thinking the same thing last week and spent a good hour looking up the SL myself.

One of the things I really appreciate about my 95 XJS' is the fact that they provide a good deal of luxury and sophistication without going over board. What I mean by this is that even with the last few years of the XJS you are getting a car that still looks old and classic without all the super expensive modules and frills that you will find on a car like the Mercedes SL of the same year.

Beyond the fact that the XJS is so much better looking and sexier then the SL IMHO, I know one of the things that is pushing the XJS up in value vs. the SL is the cost to maintain the SL vs the XJS. Just a short visit to the SL forum will bring this fact to life and will become very evident when comparing the XJS 6.0L to the SL600 V12.

I was also drawn to the rarity of the XJS vs. the SL. I saw the Mercedes SL all the time back in the 80's and 90's but to see a XJS out being driven was an event worth remembering and still is.

 

Well, here’s basically the same XJS vs. SL current sales prices comparison, only that, as promised, the XJS cars this time were the 1990 and 1991 (US market) pre-facelift models and the 1992 facelift model and this changes the XJS to V12 cars for all three years. The Mercedes cars for these three years are the 500SL and the 300SL. In general, the consistent price superiority of the mid ‘90’s XJS cars over the mid ‘90’s SL cars that were shown on my previous post, did not repeat for the V12 cars, as this time their prices were a fairly good match for the SL cars.

Mercedes Benz SL
-----Model ------ Miles ----- Autotrader $$
1990 500SL V8 41,690 miles $10,500
1990 500SL V8 63,000 miles $11,900
1990 300SL V6 74,650 miles $11,500
1990 300SL V6 100,000 miles $10,000

1991 500SL V8 5,294 miles $29,920
1991 500SL V8 43,861 miles $15,598
1991 300SL V6 69,082 miles $14,500
1991 300SL V6 87,806 miles $9,995

1992 500SL V8 32,500 miles $12,500
1992 500SL V8 49,877 miles $14,995
1992 500SL V8 71,000 miles $15,000
1992 500SL V8 117,900 miles $5,800


Jaguar XJS Conv.
----Engine -- Miles -- Autotrader $$ -- Difference vs SL
1990 V12 37,000 miles $14,900 --------$4,400
1990 V12 69,000 miles $9,897 --------($2,003)
1990 V12 72,035 miles $11,995 --------- $ 495
1990 V12 98,194 miles $10,900 ---------$ 900

1991 V12 22,000 miles $25,000 ---------($4,920)
1991 V12 49,502 miles $16,795 ---------$1,197
1991 V12 53,000 miles $15,000 ---------$ 500
1991 V12 76,610 miles $8,900 ----------($1,095)

1992 V12 29,000 miles $13,000 --------- $ 500
1992 V12 45,737 miles $13,499 --------($1,496)
1992 V12 72,000 miles $15,900 ---------$ 900
1992 V12 117,404 miles $6,995 ---------$1,195

The 500SL is a 5.0L V8 that produces 322 HP. Is that more or less than the 5.3L V12 XJS engine of the last three years?

The 300SL is a 3.0L V6 that produces 228HP, or 9 more HP than my '94 XJS AJ6 engine (219HP), or 9 less HP than an AJ16 powered XJS (237HP).

Can anybody name a two door GT of the early '90's (even if not a convertible) with similar level of sophistication as the XJS and the SL Mercedes? A Porsche and a Corvette are sports cars and not necessarily GT cars and ditto for the Ferrari and Lambo, even the NSX. The SC Lexus? A Maserati coupe? The two door convertible, twin turbo, Bentley? Any American car?

Cheers,

 

This is my take on why the XJS might not be fetching as much money as other classics.

I bought my 94 XJS 2+2 v12 Convertible in november. I have all the maintenance records since it was originally sold. The car does not have a scratch on it. The interior is in very good condition. The only thing that didn't work was the radio, which I have replaced. It is a dream to drive. I get looks and comments everywhere I go. So, why was I able to get it for only $3000?

I think the reason is that it is a She Devil to work on! I have been replacing wires and hoses, changing fluids, etc. as all good new owners should do. The previous owner spent over $25,000 dollars during his 12 years of ownership keeping it running, he did not do any of the work himself.

I love this car and enjoy working on it but, it is the hardest car I have ever worked on and I have been doing my own maintenance since Kennedy was in office. The British can not design an automobile. I mean mechanically not cosmetically. The car is beautiful, but who designed this dual straight six V12 engine?

I love the car, but hate the amount and difficulty of maintenance.

Cheers...Jimmy

 

Sorry Jimmy, l disagree.

 

You are correct, Jimmy. I am quite aware of the V12 reputation and how it affected the Jaguar brand in the minds of American car enthusiasts over the last 2 to 3 decades, especially here in SoCal. And this is why I see your point because reputations dwindle forever and I still hear it and know exactly what people are thinking when they hear about the V12 Jag (and what is that?) They're thinking of that threatening picture that the 5.3 engine bay welcomes strangers with. Yours is not bad because with the 6.0L they covered the evidence some....

Well, most of the work's already done? Then, enjoy the kitty and hope that nothing (much) breaks too soon.

Cheers,

 

Well I must say I got a good laugh over that response-disagreeing with someones personal experience.

 

But what they are listed for and actual sale price are two totally different things. Unless you know the buyer or the seller no one knows what the car sold for when the listing was deleted.
So a listing price is no real guide unless you know the seller is getting close to the price they want.
After buying and selling over 30 cars and more motorcycles, I always list near the bottom of the current advertised vehicles that are similar(and know mine are in better condition than most on the market) and sell in a few days, the premium priced ones always seem so sit online for a long time. I have only made a profit on 2 of 70ish so far.
Advertised price is only a perceived value in my opinion.

But I do hope the XJS increases in value all the same.

 

So did I. In fact, I was including an extensive paragraph in my response, but then I thought better not for the sake of our fellow V12 members. But, in essence, I lived through the Jaguar V12 hard times here in SoCal when XJ12's and XJS' were falling like flyes and boosting the Chevy V8 conversion business like there was no end. That was how the average car guy in this area learned about the V12 reputation that I see still lingering. I could narrate many stories on this subject in which I participated myself in some form, including my own, personal "Miss America's 1972 XJ12" story.

That is what I refer to when I talk about the "V12 reputation". Of course, much water has gone under the bridge since those events and things eventually changed for the better for the XJS and for Jaguar's quality reputation (though not for sales) and we know better now. I do believe that, between Ford's quality influence, the facelift, the outboard rear brakes, the much improved rust protection/prevention, and most of all, the 6.0L V12, the XJS V12 is a nice, highly desired and fairly modern GT. So yes, things have changed and not only the later XJS' brought great improvements but also what owners have learned over the course of time in regards to taking care of old problems has, in general, made life with a V12 Jaguar much easier and enjoyable than that old, ugly picture of the 70's and '80's.

Cheers,

 

Right.

IMHO the value is what I can sell a properly prepared and well advertised car for in 30 days or less.

Sure, in some cases I might get more if "just the right buyer" happens to come along in 3-6-9-12 months. But, in that situation, what's been established is value of the car to one particular person. That isn't the same as establishing 'market value'

If we're talking about ultra rare collectible cars that almost never change hands (1957 BMW 507, let's say) a single sale can indeed determine a new market value. If we're talking about cars where, on any given day, there are a hundred for sale, it naturally takes a lot longer for market value to swing.

Cheers
DD

 

Much more, the 5.3 Jaguar engine was nowhere near as sophisticated and made around 60hp less. Furthermore, it was mated to a 3 speed automatic.

The 600SL is the V12 variant which had 380hp mated to a 5 speed automatic. That's 120hp difference.

Porsche 928 (GT Car), BMW 8 Series, Lexus SC400, Cadillac Allante

I'm very familiar with the R129 SL and I think that the prices that your'e listig for these cars are somewhat realistic 'selling prices' which is understandable because there are a lot more running driving cars so it's much easier to determine value.

They're also very durable cars so it's not uncommon to find running driving cars in horrible condition for $2000. Those are really running parts cars.

You'll see 92-95 model year cars go for less then other years because there's an issue with the factory wiring harness that causes them to have running issues.

Most importantly ,the R129 has pretty much hit rock bottom and you can find real bargains of cars that are are fully depreciated.

I think that the Jaguar prices that you've listed are 'asking prices'. This is a made up number that buyers come up with. What would be interesting to see is the sales price.

If I do a completed listing search for XJS on ebay, I see 8 out of 200 cars listed actually sold and for nowhere near the prices listed above.

There's a market for everything that is low mileage, well documented and in excellent original condition. Those cars do not reflect trend, they reflect the exception.

 

Pretty much everybody The Mercedes Benz M120 V12 is basically two M104's stuck together. The BMW V12 is basically 2 M20 2.5 engines.

The exceptions are of course the exotic Italian cars such as Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. I know people who work on those but I've never heard them say "why can't they be as simple to work on as a Lamborghini??"

 

It is not the personal experience l disagree with, but the blanket statement that the English can not design a motor car.

 

Yes, the 928 and the 8 Series more than qualify for the "Sophisticated GT class", only that neither offered the always coveted convertible option that Jaguar and Mercedes made available. However, it's fair to mention that the value/price fetched by these two Germans is significantly higher than those currently being fetched by the XJS and SL cars of the period (except for the higher price 560SL's). Does this superior value/price necessarily reflect that the cars are actually superior?

In regards to the Lexus and the Allante, their current value/price is fairly good as long as the miles are low. Once the miles begin to increase to the mid "normal" range, the price quickly drops, thus creating a long list of single $$ digit price cars for sale. Are these two cars technologically equal to the German pair (928 and 8 Series)? Probably not. How about when compared to the XJS? Well, the issue here with the XJS is that all of these competitors feature, not only a more modern power plant, but they're all V8's vs. a 20 year old design V12 or a 4.0L straight six; the 6.0L V12 on-going sales price is good, but volume is very limited. So then, thank God for the facelift, otherwise the entire XJS car would be represented in this group with bumper to bumper then 20-year old technology.

So, we just trust the XJS' attraction to her stance, flair, class and gift to draw the admiration from owners and non-owners, that same admiration that gives us a smile or two every time we take her out. In the end, that is far more important because when my convertible happens to stop next to a 928 at the light, there's nothing the Porsche can do to outshine my impressive BRG GT kitty and if he/she attempts to get even when the green light comes on, well....I just flip the yellow switch up the A pillar. End of the story....

Cheers,

 

Decent R107's are worth more then 928's, XJS and BMW 8 Series. The 560SL is the nicest of the US spec cars, but Euro spec cars usually go for more money as they had high output engines that made a lot more power then their US counterparts. They were imported in the hay day of the grey import era so there are plenty around.

Only 32v 928's and the Euro's command value, the rest can be had pretty inexpensively. 850i's suffer the same reputation as the XJS and many BMW drivers would prefer a 6 series if they're looking for a big coupe.

No, an R129 Mercedes is probably the best car out of the all the Germans and the XJS (I have never owned a Lexus or Allante so I can't comment).

The Lexus was very sophisticated for its era. In Japan they were called the Toyota Soarer. I'd like to own one someday. I think I'll skip the Allante, you can't get any sheet metal for them but the build process told a great story.

The M116/7 V8 engine in the R107 dated back to 1971 so pretty old hat, but very robust. The R129 SL and the 8 series both got V12's.

As a guy who owns a 928 and XJS, I might be able to debate this one, but that's for another day




In the end they're all the best of the best that their manufacturers had to offer and all are a delight to drive in their own way.

The closest car in my mind to the XJS is the 928 in terms of challenges. As with the 928, the biggest challenge that the XJS faces right now is that many of the examples that are available today have been neglected in one way or another.

As with the 928, the interiors are made from really nice materials and quality materials deteriorate much worse then vinyl and plastic so that even low mileage cars look worn out if they sit out in the sun.

The V12's are somewhat fragile and difficult to work on. All of which work against it. The 928 had timing belt and torque tube which are a PITA to work on. For that reason there are plenty of dead XJS and 928's for under $2k in the CL.

Will they go up in price, sure! as more and more cars get scrapped, the fewer cars that are left will become more desirable. I think this is already happening in England. I was in London a couple of weeks ago and did not see one on the road. I used to see them all over the place 12 years ago during my last visit. I don't know if it will happen any time soon here in the US.

 

This is true, but I just watched a Jaguar XJS 3.6 (manual) that DIDN'T RUN go up to $4800 on eBay! Reserve was higher so it didn't sell, but why are people willing to pay almost $5000 for a non-running Jag that isn't worth much anyway? It wasn't even in pristine shape cosmetically.

 

Was the car in the USA? If so, the 3.6/5-speed combo is quite rare. Only 25 (or was it 50?) were brought in legally...few more trickled in via grey market; darn few survive, I reckon. To 99% of the world that's meaningless but to an XJS fan, it's a desirable car. The right people were looking at the right time....but they were obviously not willing to go totally overboard.

Cheers
DD

 

Yes, the car was in the US. But it was Euro-spec, so the ad said.

 

[QUOTE=alabbasi;1380363
The M116/7 V8 engine in the R107 dated back to 1971 so pretty old hat, but very robust.
S.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but the 560SL was not part of the SL price comparisons, so that old engine, which saw its beginnings with my -then- beloved 280SE 4.5, was not part of it. The Mercedes in the 90-91-92 comparison group were the SL500 and the SL300, both with newly developed engines against the ancient V12 Jag of the same three years. Jaguar was still four years from having their own V8 in their line up, but by then, the glorious XJS was gone and the "new and improved" 6.0L V12 was gone, too, for the XJS last production MY. Now, why was that? Wasn't there such a thing as a 1996 XJ12?

Cheers,