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Here’s something that bothers me simply because it shouldn’t be a mystery, yet, I can’t put my finger on it, plus the fact that I continue to assess it as a totally unfair phenomenon. Say what?
OK, I realize that the subject of the XJS poor value has come up previously, but I feel like I’m still far from understanding what’s really taking place that generates this absurdity: It’s about how the world sees a Jaguar XJS sold for peanuts in the widely watched car auctions on TV and how every time a Jaguar XJS comes to the block I feel like hiding or going to the bathroom to spare me the embarrassment. That people can get so much car for just an average $5K to $7K tops, compared to getting an ugly mid eighties Mustang with its mediocre front suspension and steering and with nothing special that will sell for at least twice as much as a super handling by comparison, shiny and decent miles XJS. I realize that cars tend to be sold for less money at auctions, but, then, the auction affects all cars similarly, not just the XJS. Even the hosts comments tend to make justice recognizing how beautiful and impressive both, exterior and interior are and how the XJS presents itself at the block and then they’re surprised at how cheaply they end up getting fetched. What pushes the XJS price down so much? Some may say “because it’s a Jaguar and Jaguars don’t keep their price” and I would tend to agree with that, since X300's and X308's don't fetch better prices than equal vintage XJS' at the auction. So, this would mean that an E-Type is not necessarily categorized as "a Jaguar" but rather as a special car based on how much more value than an XJS or X300 they're worth. I just saw a ’61 blue OTS go for $160,000 in “What’s my car worth?” In fact, this car’s owner thought his blue E-Type was worth $200,000. And that wasn’t the only E-Type fetching a great sales price. I know that the E is a special car, but isn’t it a Jaguar, too?
The only way I see an XJS selling for a decent price is when the car has ridiculously low miles, otherwise, they won’t keep good value in the manner that other apparently less deserving cars do. We have many members here from whom I’ve read excellent input in regards to vehicles market value subjects and some input here would be much appreciated.
Finally, is this subject actually contributing for you to keeping your XJS for much longer than you would have, otherwise? Would you have already sold it if its value wasn't so disappointing?
Cheers,
It’s ignorance. Open your hood and most mechanics run screaming away. ( it is a mess as the factory builds it) but that is easily fixed. The V12 works exactly like every other car. With 12 cylinders instead of 6 or 8.
About here I usually make a joke about the need to take a shoe off to count to 12.
But to be fair, pre OBD2 fuel injection is hard for most “mechanics” to understand. Only the last V12’s had that. Even Chevy’s & Fords with pre OBD2 EFI are trashed or converted to carburators.
I’m a racer, not a collector. Once people see that beautiful engine without all the wires and hoses covering it, the fear disappears and is replaced with lust.
But that means replacing that ugly York compressor with a modern small one on the side. To fit that. That Bus sized alternator needs to be replaced with a modern smaller one and the EGR gets put in a box with the rest of the original bits.
The Stock EFI is fine if working. Even that can be simplified with an aftermarket ECU. Something that can be OBD2 compatible and tuned with a few simple key strokes of a. Lap top. The new Megasquirt pro mini is a perfect replacement and is less than $700 including the wire loom.
There is a temptation to put a set of Webers on. While that affords a lot of eye candy, Power will be down compared to EFI and fuel mileage will be much worse.
Given a choice between a XJS like that and a completely original One. Only masochist would go for originality.
Maybe that’s our problem?
The XJS is an aquired taste; very few people have ever been in one, let alone a good one. Even fewer have ever driven 400 miles in a day in one and got out at the other end feeling perfectly fresh; and the next morning have felt the eagerness to get back in and do it all again. The XJS, in my opinion, is the ONLY 1970s/80s Grand Tourer that still feels modern, can hold its own in modern road conditions, and handle and corner to modern standards.
The XJS is a car built to be used, not worshipped in a heated garage, and as Mguar says, one look in the engine bay scares any newcomer - including me 26 years ago! Best not to look until you have driven it; then you are hooked! Furthermore, if you are not able to, and cannot enjoy fettling it yourself, it is ruinously expensive to keep in top form, and that is if, big if, you can find anyone who can keep it in top form.
Finally, they are not rare cars and compared with many contemporary offerings, are structurally robust. Hence the price point. Do not regret that, be thankful for it; I and most of us could never have afforded one and experienced the joy of driving and riding in it, if it were otherwise. And furthermore, remember we all know something the rest do not.
Like most here I've owned and driven a wide variety of cars. My XJS will always stand out in my memory. Fantastic car. I'm thinking I should get another :-)
I've often said that a V12 Jag is not the right car for everybody. And that's probably still true. But....with all that has been learned and shared about the proper care and feeding they should be less feared now than ever before.
Decent R107's are worth more then 928's, XJS and BMW 8 Series. The 560SL is the nicest of the US spec cars, but Euro spec cars usually go for more money as they had high output engines that made a lot more power then their US counterparts. They were imported in the hay day of the grey import era so there are plenty around.
Only 32v 928's and the Euro's command value, the rest can be had pretty inexpensively. 850i's suffer the same reputation as the XJS and many BMW drivers would prefer a 6 series if they're looking for a big coupe.
No, an R129 Mercedes is probably the best car out of the all the Germans and the XJS (I have never owned a Lexus or Allante so I can't comment).
The Lexus was very sophisticated for its era. In Japan they were called the Toyota Soarer. I'd like to own one someday. I think I'll skip the Allante, you can't get any sheet metal for them but the build process told a great story.
The M116/7 V8 engine in the R107 dated back to 1971 so pretty old hat, but very robust. The R129 SL and the 8 series both got V12's.
As a guy who owns a 928 and XJS, I might be able to debate this one, but that's for another day
In the end they're all the best of the best that their manufacturers had to offer and all are a delight to drive in their own way.
The closest car in my mind to the XJS is the 928 in terms of challenges. As with the 928, the biggest challenge that the XJS faces right now is that many of the examples that are available today have been neglected in one way or another.
As with the 928, the interiors are made from really nice materials and quality materials deteriorate much worse then vinyl and plastic so that even low mileage cars look worn out if they sit out in the sun.
The V12's are somewhat fragile and difficult to work on. All of which work against it. The 928 had timing belt and torque tube which are a PITA to work on. For that reason there are plenty of dead XJS and 928's for under $2k in the CL.
Will they go up in price, sure! as more and more cars get scrapped, the fewer cars that are left will become more desirable. I think this is already happening in England. I was in London a couple of weeks ago and did not see one on the road. I used to see them all over the place 12 years ago during my last visit. I don't know if it will happen any time soon here in the US.
a V12 fragile? Get your hands dirty once instead of listening to gossip.
I’ve been working on race cars since 1962. Offenhauser, Chevy, Buick Cadillac, Ferrari, Maserati, Porsche and Mercedes.
Nothing has been as robust and well built as that Jaguar V12
The crankshaft is 78.8 pounds of Forged EN 30 steel. That post machine work is heat treated. 3 inch mains 2.30 rods journals.
Connecting rods made from similar forgings ( less the heat treat). Rod bolts that were state of the art.
Tiny 2&3/4 stroke, 3&1/2 inch bore ,
only a modest 3/8inch valve lift with a valve train content to rev at 6500 rpm all day long without a bit of stress. 4 bolt mains (6 bolts on the 7th main)
When introduced on the Jaguar XJS it was the most powerful engine of the time. Even though choked off by pollution laws of the era and Handicapped with a compression ratio of only 7.8-1
You don’t need 3 inch mains and 2.30 inch rods unless It was originally designed to be taken out to 500+ cubic inches without the need for major re-design.
Nothing - Nothing about that engine design was inferior. Or fragile.
Yes the earliest EFI was difficult to diagnose for untrained mechanics. Especially in the mid 1970’s through 80’ and I just about through the 90’s. Only the last got OBD2 when it was adapted by others. But the system itself was robust and always state of the art.
Simple issues like the GM ignition modules failing stumped mechanics. Rubber vacuum lines leaking or occasional sensor failure caused many V12’s to be falsely pulled and replaced with Chevy V8 Engines of 102 less net horsepower. That little 326 cu in engine still made 60 more horsepower than the same era Chevy 454
Want proof of its power?
It required the GM turbo 400 to stand up to its power and torque. The same transmission used in all big block engines of the era. The biggest automatic the Chevy 350 ever got was the smaller 350 turbo.
The V12 was impressive when new and had Jaguar been in a position of economic strength imagine how much power that engine would be capable of at 500 cubic inches with 21 years of development.
I think the biggest factor is that they are notorious for electrical and engine fire problems. I bought one two years ago for $5000 and thought I was getting a real car knowing that I would have to put some money in it. Well here I am over two years later after it died on the way home from my purchase. I have spent over $6000 in mechanical repairs and over $5000 in cosmetics and it is in the garage as of today. I probably haven't driven the car 300 miles in two years. I drove it some last summer until it quit qnd would not start. When I bought it, every car enthusiest I told, looked at me and said "good luck with keeping it running"
However, I think it is one of the nicest looking cars ever and come hell or high water I am going to get it fixed or put a V-8 in it and drive it forever.
Your problem is lack of knowledge. Spending that much tells me that you’re a checkbook mechanic. You know when something is wrong but have no idea how to fix it.
I’m sure of the money you’ve spent at least 1/2 was wasted. Having the mechanic find and fix the unknown.
Lacking OBD2 that’s to be expected.
A knowledgeable Jaguar mechanic could quickly and cheaply repair those troubles. Or even avoid them altogether.
05-04-2024, 09:04 AM
