orangeblossom, have not tryed FRP will try 2day if i can, also,last week i remove both relays in boot removed silver tops all looked ok so i refixed to car with out tos on, wife turned key main relay points close and pump cam on, she then cranked car fuel relay points closed and opened whill cranking, so i reficked covers, when i was fixing relays to bracket ther was a spark, cheqed wires none bare then it happened again no bare wire, so i removed ECU, had a look in side no burning and no rust, as i was refixing there was another spark from back i tremoved it but no bare wire so fixedit back in, still no start, last night friday i was refixing relays on clips in boot and it spared again cant find and bare wires, also last week wife turned ign on pump came on, i clamped feed to pump connected a hose to pump with my compressor on hose set at 35psi wife cranked car still no start, ?????

 

Hi Tony

While a moment ago I was thinking that you had an Injector Problem (which you may still have) I have now gone 360/o and am starting to think

you may have got a problem with the Fuel Pump Relay.

Take the Wires off the Fuel Pump and connect them to your Meter, then get your Wife to turn the Ignition Key.

The Meter Needle should swing over for 3 Seconds and then drop back to Zero (every time you turn the Key)

If that doesn't happen then it Sounds like it 'Could' be the Fuel Pump Relay, which is usually the Silver one with a black diagonal Stripe drawn on it.

If you've been messing about with the Fuel Pump, do make sure there are no Petrol Fumes in the Boot/Trunk or you and your Car will be Toast!

Blow some Air round it with the Compressor just to be sure.

If the 3 Second Test is working, then you can eliminate the Relay.

You could have a Blocked Fuel Filter or The Fuel Pump may be on the way out.

(1) Do the Relay 3 Second Test

(2) Check for a Blocked Fuel Filter

(3) Check for an 'iffy' Fuel Pump

(4) Check the FPR on 'B' Bank for Fuel Delivery on the Engine Side. (Don't let any Petrol go in the 'Vee')

(5) If all of that Checks out and is working OK

(6) Take the Main lead out of the Dizzy SO THE CAR CANNOT START!

Then take out Injector No1 on 'A' Bank (leave it connected to the fuel rail)

Put the Injector in a clean glass Jam Jar (while still connected to the fuel rail)

Turn on the Ignition so you get the Dash Lights on (but don't try and start her)

Flick the Throttle Capstan Round by Hand and see if that Injector Squirts Fuel into the Jar

and then report back.

New Fuel Filter about £10 (Always worth getting a New one anyway)

New Fuel Pump (They are generic and are fitted to loads of Cars) so £30 on Ebay or Amazon.

Instead of the £100-£200 you may have been expecting to have to Pay.

Do be Careful of Petrol Fumes in the Boot/Trunk as with all those 'Sparks' you've been getting, you and your Car could be Toast!

Warning!!!! DO NOT under any Circumstances reconnect the 'Dizzy' Lead and try and Start the Car with the Injector out of the Engine

Even if its still in the Jam Jar.

Put the Injector back in the Engine BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO START IT,

Have a Read through Page 11 (onwards) on my Cherry Blossom Restoration Blog and see if any of this sounds familiar.

I had similar problems: Engine wouldn't Start, Slow Cranking, Stuck Injectors etc.

Here is a Link straight to it: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...122634/page11/

 

orangeblossom, if i take fuel inj out will it reseal ok without new seal ??

 

The A1 injector will seal back just like it is now. Which is probably not quite perfectly.

 

orangeblossom, have taken no1 a bank inj out turned ign on no fuel., cranked eng got less than 1/2 a thimble of fuel after cranking 4 times ?????

 

It is more a matter of the spray pattern. There should be a nice fine conical spray from the injector.
Greg

 

Greg, no spray just a drip.

 

Is that injector clicking nice when you turn the throttle capstan? If so you have a clog somewhere if not then you have an injector issue. With that one or overall.

I'd get a 9v battery and apply it ( just for a second ) the that injectors pins while ignition on. If it sprays a nice pattern then your injection electrical system is the problem. If it still doesn't spray then it's an issue with fuel delivery. FI internal filter, the FPRs, pump, or filter.

edit: and do not crank that engine with the injector out. Just turn the key to run position to activate the fuel pump and ensure you have pressure.

 

Hi Tony

You need to go back to the Beginning and Check these items to eliminate them as being the possible cause of your 'No Start' problem.

Fuel Pump Relay Test.

With your meter connected to the fuel pump leads

Does the meter needle go over for 3 Seconds every time you turn the ignition on.

If 'Yes' to the above, can you hear the fuel pump running.

If No then it 'Could' be the Fuel Pump needs replacing

The Fuel Filter could be Blocked

Are you getting good fuel pressure on the Engine Side of the FPR on 'B' Bank

If NO then the FPR on 'B' Bank 'May' need Replacing

If YES then it could be Stuck Injectors or No Power to the Injectors.

Take an Injector Lead off and connect your Meter to either one of the two terminal and the other lead of your Meter to earth.

Switch on the Ignition: The Meter should read 12 Volts

Now do exactly the same with the other terminal in the Injector lead that should also read 12volts

It could equally be a problem with the Plug and Socket on the Silver Box (The Resistor Pack)

They do need to be really Clean or the Injectors won't Squirt.

The Injectors themselves might be gummed up and need to be cleaned and you will need to replace the Injector Seals because as Jig Jag says

they won't be such a good fit going back.

If you need some replacements get them from Brit Cars, they are only about £5 for 12 while everyone else is charging £24 Land Rover Parts and Jaguar Spares | Britcar UK Ltd

You may equally have disturbed the Coax lead in the 'Vee' when you did the Spark Plugs, it could be shorting out somewhere 'Grant' is the Expert on this.

Or it could be the ECU or the Coax wire going into the ECU.

These are only some of things that 'could' have caused the problem, so you need to slowly work through them one at a time, eliminating the possible causes as you go.

Do Be Extremely Careful, Not to spill any Petrol in the Boot/Trunk, as with all those Sparks around and with any Petrol Vapor, you and your Car could be Toast, so don't take any chances. DON'T SAY YOU HAVEN'T BEEN WARNED!

Just take it Slowly and make sure you know what you're doing.

 

Jigjag, clicking ok when throttle turned

 

Hi Tony

You've got the Injector 'Clicking' which is good.

Theoretically if that Injector was getting a good supply of Fuel, then your problems 'might' be over.

As after all She was running OK before you laid her up.

So now check the Fuel Supply from the Engine Side of the FPR on 'B' Bank.

It should come shooting out of there like a fire hose, so put some Rag around it so you don't have Petrol going everywhere.

Evaporate any Spills with your Compressor and watch out for Fumes.

Keep the Dizzy Lead disconnected and don't attempt to Start Her or even try and turn the Engine over.

Just a couple of Flicks of the Key to the point where the Dash Lights come on is all you need to prove to yourself that the Fuel Pump and the

FPR are delivering the Fuel. (As the Pump is electrical the Engine doesn't need to turn over to deliver fuel to the FPR or the Fuel Rail)

Remember the Fuel Pump Relay and the 3 Second Test with the Meter.

Assuming the Relay is working OK The Fuel Pump only operates for 3 Seconds, every time you turn the Key to the point where the Dash Lights come on.

So a couple of 3 Second Fuel Pump Activations (maybe three) are all you need for you to know that (if it were connected) then the Fuel Rail would be getting fuel at enough pressure.

If that isn't happening come back and we'll go from there.

Take Sensible Precautions and don't have any wet fuel laying around the Engine Compartment.

 

orangeblossom,will test FPR 2mw i take it to test after FPR,thanks

 

also notice when i now switch ign on pump runs for about 8 seconds

 

Should be about 3 seconds. I don't think 8 seconds presents any problem other than the timer in the ECU is lazy

Cheers
DD

 

Old age etc etc, but I am a bit lost on what you have done exactly by now. If the injectors are not spraying properly, then either they are blocked, or the supply to them is, or you have a FP problem.


Get some easy start (ether) spray and spray it into the intakes and see if the car runs. If it does, then it is definitely a fuel problem.


I could not follow what you did to the relays in the boot, but is there anything about that you might have messed up?


In your position I would turn the ignition on for a few seconds a few times to prime the rail pressure, then ask a helper to turn the car over on the starter, while you CAREFULLY undo the inlet to the fuel rail a touch. If a strong obviously high pressure spray of fuel emerges, you have enough to start the car. If not, spend 40 quid at D Manners for a new B BANK FPR. Fit it and try again.


If that does nothing, pull the injectors and clean them out as OB can describe, fitting new rail to injector flexibles when you do it, as they will certainly be almost shot.


Finally, and this is worth doing first maybe, test the injector loom for power. You should have 12 volts BOTH sides of the injector connectors, Doug or Warrjon or OB will explain how to test for this.
Greg

 

UPDATE< just removed fuel pipe from FPR on B bank, turned key on no fuel out of pipe, some fuel come out of pipe coming from fuel rail.

 

Hi Tony

So now we are fairly certain that you have got a Fuel Delivery Problem, which means another recheck of what you have done so far.

(1) Do the 3 Second Test with the Meter on the Fuel Pump Relay.

Take the Wires off the Fuel Pump connect them to your Meter, then have someone turn on the ignition until the Dash Lights come on (But Don't Try and Start her)

The Meter should Register 12 volts for 3 Seconds and then drop back to Zero every time the Key is turned to the point where the Dash Lights come on.

If that happens then the Relay is working OK if not Report back.

(2) Put the Wires back on the Fuel Pump and Reconnect the Fuel Pipes under the Bonnet/Hood

(As you don't want Petrol Spewing out everywhere)

Get someone to turn on the ignition to the point where the Dash Lights come on.

(But don't try and Start her) while you listen by the Boot/Trunk for the sound of the Fuel Pump Running.

Can you hear the Fuel Pump Running (Yes or No?)

Then Report back.

Its no good trying to get too far ahead, it has to be taken a step at a time to make sure that every component in the Chain is working as it should be.

 

Up Date, my FPR is on A bank, i removed feed pipe and turned ign on fuel cam out but not like a fire hose, turned key on and off 4 time about 2 mugs of fuel cam out, can hear pump running with ign on. what will testing leads on pump do

 

You have TWO on the V12. The B bank (UK Passenger side) is the one that is important. If you crack the line FROM the rail TO the B bank FPR, you should get just the same pressure as you got when you cracked the line TO A Bank one. You must assess the pressure BETWEEN the two FPRs, in other words. Down stream of the B bank FPR is no test, it is just a low pressure return to the tank.


Now squirt some ether, or even WD 40 into the intake butterflies and see if she will run. If she does, get stuck into the injector cleaning and the B bank FPR change. Do one thing at a time, methodically, or you will be going in circles, that is what we have all had to learn to do.
Greg

 

new up date, have made pipe with pressure gauge on to fit pipe from return rail, pressure is 20psi, going to try it on pipe before FRP. what is the right pressure for injectors to open. up date later. also dont under stand y my FRP is on A bank looking from front of car its on left, drivers side ?????