They sent me 2 more, along with new pressure plate and correct speedo drive gear. So calling this complete kit is a stretch, but if one is willing and able, why not.

 

Congratulations, Mish. Worth the pain I am sure, keep us up to date with 0 - 60 times and general fun feedback.

Greg

 

I still think I will wait before making the jump to convert. It just seems like one company should be able to provide a complete kit with everything you need WITHOUT that much aggravation!

 

It is just my luck, perhaps some piano player, or professor of cybernetics would have no trouble in my place.

 

Did someone ask for videos?

Here she is, after first successful run with 5-speed, in the rain.

Plus this other one, where I got a little too big for my breeches.

 

We are all fixed up and NO VIBRATION to speak of.
Replacing my custom made spacers under throw out bearing and using new pressure plate, fixed the clutch vibration.
Was it the plate, or the little uneven spacers under TOB, I am not sure, but it is all behind now and I am moving on to next items on my todo list.

 

This question is probably best asked to Mish_Mish who afaik was the most recent person on this forum to install a driven man kit in his XJS:

In the driven man's photo (attached), please can you tell me what the 4 long bolts are for? They are detailed as part of the "hardware package" - item 17.

Item 16 - the pilot bearing looks a lot bigger than I would expect for something that is supposed to fit in the back of the crankshaft - does the supplied item actually look this big?

Item 10 - the crossmember - how intricate is this piece of fabrication & would it be relatively easy for someone with the facilities & ability to make their own crossmember?

Thanks in advance.

 

you don't mess around with your questions, do you!?

I do not recall these long bolts in my kit, but to be honest I used supplied bolts rather loosely, since they forgot to ship a good half of them. I will see in my leftover bolts tomorrow, if I still have these long bolts.

Pilot they supply is bigger then it needs to be, to is your duty to have it cut to exact opening size in your crankshaft. Jaguuuar used 3 different size opening in the cranks, since they did not matter for TH400 application.

X-member is rather straight forward unit, but it does have some primitive mounting solution to it, so I would prefer not to have one made myself. It does carry a lot of weight and torque.

 

i made my own crossmember, i took a 1 inch pipe and a hydraulic pipe bender and bent it into shape for the t5, and then welded the plates to bolt up where the orignal one went.

This replaced my orignal cross member which was box tubing bent in the same fashion,

 

What's the issue with my questions please - too direct?

Based on other people's experience with a certain vendor of these kits, I decided to put my own kit together & I've taken the liberty of using the photo I attached to refer to. I will use the original bolts to fasten the bell housing to the block. I've got the 4 four bolts to fasten my shiny new TKO600 to the bellhousing. I have another 2 bolts to fasten the mount to the bottom of the TKO & another 2 bolts to fasten the mount to whatever crossmember I end up using - I could not guess what the 4 long bolts in the photo were for.

I can envisage how Calvin describes the crossmember that he made but I can't 'draw' what I think it looks like here - Calvin, do you by any chance have a photograph of it that you would be prepared to share with me?

Thanks.

 

Questions are fine, making me spin my brain to remember these 4 bolts was hard
I will look in the shop today and see if I still got those, or perhaps used them.

I suppose you could make your own x-member, considering that you will no longer need that overengineered spring suspension there, it should be doable.
Driven Man kit is not really a kit, it is more of a set of usable parts, so I cannot suggest spending money on it to people.
Semi custom way for conversion is what I would do, if I could turn the clock back.

 

Well, long time no see gents.

I thought I'd update you all on my final experience with 5 speed conversion from Thedrivenman.com aka American Power Train Specialty Performance Parts, 5 and 6 speed Transmission Conversions and Accessories | American Power Train and overall it is not good at all.
It has been over a year and half and I just recently got rid of final bugs in their crappy kit.

Here is what I dealt with from start to finish:

- missing hardware, such as clutch adjustment shims, misc. bolts and other minor items
- incorrect speedometer gears, none supplied at first
- first clutch kit with warp pressure plate, causing major vibration on take off, after few calls, e-mails and about a week, replaced with another pressure plate
- almost no vibration on take off with new pressure plate, yet vibration throughout entire drive train. After very little use, clutch started to slip and smell, vibration at higher RPM gets worse.
- Finally, after checking entire drive train, rod and main bearings (imagine the labor), I purchased quality McLeod clutch from Jegs which fixed the issue and made my car drive and feel like it should.

Overall, I would not advise this supplier to anyone. Terrible support, rude staff and complete disregard for customers.
Two month ago I sent them second faulty clutch for inspection, asking for partial refund (since I had to source quality part elsewhere) and hear nothing since, no response to e-mails.

If I was to do it again, I's source major parts from different vendors and made some custom components myself, like Calvin. The time and labor I was hoping to save by paying more, I ended up wasting and losing as the result of dealing with these guys.

 

Good to see you went with the McLeod throwout bearing.

If anybody is interested I'm able to tig the clutch pedal tabs if anyone else is looking to do the conversion.

Good reviews hope to see your car on.the road!

 

Oh, yeah. That is neat stuff. The antithesis of modern engine bays with plastic covers over the fabulous engineering.


I could mess with neat clean stuff like that for ever.


I did get to run Nurburgring!!! Way back in about 1953!! High school pal and I crossed paths as officers in the army in Germany!!! Different routes of getting there.
he in the signal corps via Texas A & M. I as an artillery officer via TWC. Small world, indeed.


Well, he was in Coblentz. so, I drove up from Worms in my new MG TD. Laps were allowed at the track. We took turns driving the MG. Sure would've like d more HP!!!
But, a blast, no less....


Well, the township recently sold the track. Demise? Condo's ???


Carl

 

These people turned out to be complete waste, but nevertheless car runsnow and a lot of fun to drive.
How is your project doing?

 

Thank you for the update - you have confirmed what I thought about this "outfit" - I made an enquiry to them & three words sprang to mind in "his" response:

ARROGANT, ARROGANT, ARROGANT.

Enough said.

BPP.

 

Mish:


I just ran into this thread and read it front to back. You had a lot of fun on this job.


I did one of the very first Keisler kits, buying one from a fellow who bought it for his '87, but never installed it. My car is a '90.


I ran into a number of items, most having to do with the fact that the pre-89 cars are different in important respects to the 89+ cars. I also had quality problems with the kit parts.


I too, had to fab a pilot bearing; my bore was different from the early engines. I used 1.5 mil interference fit. Worked great.


The flywheel bolts sent with the kit had one with no threads (!). Had to source replacement bolt kit.


Gotta be careful with bolting that pressure plate: the bolts can bottom out in the flywheel (and allow you to make the correct torque reading) and yet not fully fix the pressure plate: there are specific thickness washers that MUST be in place, so that the bolts can take up the fixing of the plate and not bottom out before making torque. I know one guy who ran into that one, and had the trans in and out many times before he found it.


Because my car had ABS, I had to get a different pedal box. Was able to do this after a fashion.


The 89+ cars use speedo pickup in the diff, so I had to source a plug for the speedo port of the trans. Not a problem, and it has not leaked from anywhere, including that plug.


I also had to fashion a notch in the bell to mount the flywheel speed sensor for the Marelli ignition. That proved to be an Achilles heal for me, as I set the clearance at the far end of the recommended range. When the engine warmed, the sensor clearance evidently opened too far and the engine quit. When cool, would start right back up. Fixed the clearance, no problems since.


Installation: I did this myself, in the driveway, using an engine hoist. Took the engine/trans in one pull, so that I could get at it for fit up. New trans and bell piloted on first try, just slipped in. Installed engine/trans in one operation. No problems, just takes patience and due attention to safety.


Vibration problems: the flywheel and pressure plate should have been dynamically balanced as a unit, and then match-marked so that when you install, you can ensure the same balance. Many people I know STILL needed to do a balance job on theirs. Also, the drive shaft must be balanced as well. Failure to address either of these will cause vibration.


Another source of vibration: any eccentricity of the bell with respect to the block (e.g., pilot hole offset with respect to the trans input shaft) will also cause vibration.


Next time I do this (and if/when I do it, I will be putting in a close ratio Richmond 6 box, and nothing else), I will spend a lot of time getting everything balanced to a T.


I have put maybe 8K mi on my setup, having done this about 6 years ago (summer car). Have not had any trouble with the setup beyond some annoyances (some mine, some theirs). They DID design this particular kit with a braided clutch line that coupled to the hardline coming out of the bell. The connection point is right between the bell and the tunnel, way up in where you are never going to be able to get at it. Well, when I assembled the kit, I looked at the flare job on the hard pipe coming from the bell and thought it looked a bit ragged. I dressed it a bit and assembled the line, and proceeded with the installation.


I have had a clutch line leak at that connection ever since, and I have tried every which way I can to fix it (a basin wrench and crows foot ends with sockets can get to it to tighten/loosen), but, the real problem is that the flare end needs to be cut off and reflared. Can't do without pulling the trans. So, I top up the clutch master once a week. PITA, but until I pull that engine again, it'll have to stay that way. What a bitch. Simple quality problem with the kit and a poor design to make that connection in a place you can't ever get to. Note to self: NEVER place a connection where you can't get to it. NEVER.


Overall, I have really enjoyed the car with this trans- it's an altogether different experience. Car needs more gear, though, and I am putting in a 3.54 diff this season, and am waiting to get the IRS back together and check that out. This ought to make the car quite a bit quicker off the line. I also don't like the wide ratio TKO gear spacing. Sure, this V12 has a nice flat torque curve and you can pull at pretty much any gear, but, I think this combo would be much sweeter still with a close ratio box, and a 6th gear. Biggest problem with using a close ratio box on this car is that first gear ratio: these are usually around 2.97 or so (wide boxes usually feature something around 3.27). This means the diff gear really must be changed to something like 3.54 or better still, 3.73 or numerically higher. Otherwise, the car will still be too long-legged.


Too bad you did not have instructions with yours- that's inexcusable, really. I have a set if you ever care to wish to read.


Well documented experience, yours!


-M

 

Hello Mike,

Many thanks for taking the time to write your very informative post.

Is 1.5mm the 'wall thickness' of your pilot bearing or does that refer to something else?

Also, did you use one of the tunnel/transmission cover plates from a manual 3.6ltr xjs or did you cut the tunnel as per the Keisler/D.M. instructions?

Good to hear that you've not had any blown o ring issues with the hydraulic throw out bearing - I've read some horror stories on other forums about people repeatedly removing transmissions because of leaking throw out bearings.

I will save your post with the good advice regarding balancing of the rotating components & your experience with the flywheel/crankshaft speed sensor.

Having 95% of the components (only lack rear transmission mount, modified propshaft & reverse light/neutral safety switch wiring) I will get there one day with this project!

Thanks again.

Andy.

 

Andy:


The 1.5 mil figure is not the wall thickness (that'd be paper thin!), but rather, the difference between the bearing OD and the pilot hole ID.


Basically, the bearing is slightly oversize for the bore, but carefully so, so that it will turn with the crank, but the interference fit is not so severe that the bearings' own ID is constricted. If the interference is too great, the bearing ID will shrink when the bearing is driven into the bore and will now drag on the input shaft of the trans...then what happens then is, you depress the clutch, but the input shaft keeps turning because of that tight fit to the bearing, and you can't shift, or will miss a shift.


A reputable speed shop will know what do with your bearing if you need it turned. Buy an E-type bearing, get a bore gage and measure your actual bore ID (make 5 readings and take an average), and give those to the machine shop fellow. They will turn the requisite OD for the correct interference.


-M

 

Mike,

Thanks for the update.
I ran into most of the same issues you did, however I have my own lift and was able to take it slow and tried getting all measurements perfect.
All bolts around pressure plate were fine and not too long, bell housing run out was measure and remeasured. After all I drilled two more 6mm holes through bell housing and engine block, tapped them with fine thread and those are now my pilot bolts for perfect bell alignment.
Believe it or not, but after I installed McLeod clutch, I can rev up motor to 6000 rpm and no abnormal vibration come out. Before, anything above 3000 rpm would shake my car like the damn motor was about to fly out. All from having that nasty $50 chinse clutch they supplied TWICE!
These guys are crook and I am still thinking of filing with local small claims court, since they delivered item to my door and now under Ohio jurisdiction.

Regardless, thanks for the advice, I would like to have copy of your instructions.