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So I've had my '13 XKR for just over 4 years and 40k miles now and brought it in to the dealer last November to try and take advantage of my extended warranty right before it expired. The dealer was more than happy to oblige. The only lingering complaint I had was a general dissatisfaction with the AC system which has never worked all that great the entire time I've had the car. It basically either blows ice cold or not at all with nothing in between and usually only when the car is at speed. Humidity control is the biggest annoyance, as the few times I've taken the car out in the rain, the windows would fog so bad it was downright dangerous. I'd seen the TSB about the pressure sensing valve and hoped that might be the issue, so I asked the dealer about it and they just replaced the compressor altogether. This was fine with me since it was covered by the extended warranty.
Problem is the weather in Texas has been pretty mild since November, so I'm only realizing now that nothing seems to have changed even with the new compressor. The dealer is telling me the compressor itself has a one year warranty, but I'm going to have to pay a diagnostic fee to have the car looked at again. Does anyone have any ideas before I spend a few hundred dollars on something that is perhaps not necessarily fixable? That is, are the AC units on these cars just not that great to begin with, or is it possible the new compressor they put in is bad as well, or is there something else that could be causing the problems I'm describing?
From experience (not on my Jag but my Audi) whenever I buy a used car I always take it for a pressure test and a re-gas/re-lube, as there's never been any history of this type of work on any used car I've had. In my Audi i had similar symptoms to yours and a generic garage found that it had 20% more gas than it should and zero lube. So they put that right
Plus I've never paid more than £40/$55 for this, as per the link below
I'd suggest if you can find somewhere local stateside that can do the same at a reasonable cost, hat's what I'd do, they also present you with a print-out of what was taken out and put back in along with the number of grams of lube present and reintroduced. If it's wrong then present that to your dealer, if everything's right then keep your mouth shut and look for another cause.
Do main dealers actually have the air-con kit or do they farm this out to a 3rd party?
From experience (not on my Jag but my Audi) whenever I buy a used car I always take it for a pressure test and a re-gas/re-lube, as there's never been any history of this type of work on any used car I've had. In my Audi i had similar symptoms to yours and a generic garage found that it had 20% more gas than it should and zero lube. So they put that right
Plus I've never paid more than £40/$55 for this, as per the link below
I'd suggest if you can find somewhere local stateside that can do the same at a reasonable cost, hat's what I'd do, they also present you with a print-out of what was taken out and put back in along with the number of grams of lube present and reintroduced. If it's wrong then present that to your dealer, if everything's right then keep your mouth shut and look for another cause.
Do main dealers actually have the air-con kit or do they farm this out to a 3rd party?
Wouldn't all that have been done in connection with replacing the compressor?
I have owned two '12 XK's, the first one about a year before it was totaled and now 4 years with my replacement vehicle. The first had a great AC with no issue. The second one had an AC issue that developed in the first 6 months whereby the compressor would shut down leaving the car blowing warm air, always when I was at a light at idle. Then when I was taking off it would start back up with the engine rev. That was a known defect in some pressure switch, the dealer replaced under warranty and for the last 4 years my air has been rock solid and ice cold, nary an unscheduled variation in temp.
So no, I do not believe that the system design is such that the air is weak. Sounds like you have an issue that they need to fix. I would take it back in, pay the diagnostic, if it ends up being the compressor again negotiate best possible to mitigate any costs. This could just be bad luck, or maybe they did something bone headed and they end up waiving all fees.
Do you have access to SDD or a decent OBD tool because if you do you can monitor the system yourself to see what the system pressure is, evaporator temperature is, etc, and hopefully work out what is and isn't working.
This is a screenshot from SDD.
I have been going through an issue with my air-con too recently which is why I had that screen shot. I have noticed on long runs that it doesn't always seem to be able to maintain a cool enough temperature in the cabin so I have to lower the set temperature to try and compensate.
I had the system regassed a few weeks ago in case it was low and the air-con guy said it was very slightly low but not enough to make a difference but that the pressure was far too high on the high pressure side so possibly making the system inefficient.
He seemed to think that the electric fan wasn't being told to turn fast enough by the PCM to cool the condenser thereby lowering the pressure.
I got SDD out and was able to monitor the demand on the fan, the evaporator temperature and air-con pressure and, sure enough, if I use SDD to override the fan demand to make it turn at 100% the system pressure drops dramatically and the evaporator temperature drops.
I went back to see the air-con guy and ran SDD while he monitored with his gauges and the pressure readings matched so that implies that the pressure sensor is OK which leaves either the pressure valve or the fan control or input. He has changed a few pressure valves and said that the symptoms I am seeing don't point to that as they usually just fail, not cause intermittent issues and the TSB mentions seeing high pressure on the low pressure side and vice versa, which isn't what I am seeing.
I had a play with my portable OBD tool that links to my phone last week. When I first turned the car on and it was stationary I saw the same issue. The pressure would rise to around 270psi before the fan speed was raised bringing it back down to under 250psi.
I had another play after a 20 minute drive and the system then seemed to keep it below 200psi so I may have an intermittent issue so I am just going to monitor it for a while and use the OBD device to keep an eye on things on my next long trip.
Out of interest, you can see the ram affect of air here on the system pressure as I go from stationary to moving. That does beg the question as to how the system can have too high a pressure when moving but hopefully monitoring will give me more clues as to what is going on.
You stated that the new compressor is still under warranty.
You brought your car in because the AC wasn't working properly. The dealer diagnosed it and determined it needed a new compressor. You expected the dealer's diagnosis would fix the problem. It did not, because the work was done before it got Texas HOT. You didn't know until now that it still wasn't working properly.
You shouldn't have to pay twice for the dealer's incompetence. There's no difference between paying cash out of your pocket or having an extended service contract that you bought pay for it.
The dealer should stand behind his work. You paid him to fix it and he didn't. You shouldn't have to pay him again. If he refuses, you should contact Jaguar North America for help. See this thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...repair-234484/
You stated that the new compressor is still under warranty.
You brought your car in because the AC wasn't working properly. The dealer diagnosed it and determined it needed a new compressor. You expected the dealer's diagnosis would fix the problem. It did not, because the work was done before it got Texas HOT. You didn't know until now that it still wasn't working properly.
You shouldn't have to pay twice for the dealer's incompetence. There's no difference between paying cash out of your pocket or having an extended service contract that you bought pay for it.
The dealer should stand behind his work. You paid him to fix it and he didn't. You shouldn't have to pay him again. If he refuses, you should contact Jaguar North America for help. See this thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...repair-234484/
Good luck!
I agree. He paid them to fix a problem, but the problem is still there. I am curious if the dealer changed any of the other commonly recommended components when he changed the compressor. Condenser, receiver drier, expansion valve?
If you turn on the air and get moisture on the windshield, as mine did, there is something wrong, the dealer replaced the compressor and unknown additional parts and problem gone @40,000 miles. 2011 XKR convertible. It doesn't need to be hot to test, just raining.
Thanks for the replies. Took til today to get a service appointment at the dealer that replaced the compressor. Naturally, the weather was great this morning, and the AC was working pretty well on the way to the dealer. I asked him again about the TSB regarding the direct pressure sensing valve to see if it would've been replaced along with the old compressor, and he said probably not. I get the sense there is no way they are going to acknowledge misdiagnosing anything, but I guess we'll see.
I noticed a couple other threads today regarding the cabin temperature sensor. Does the sensor only come into play if the AC is on "Auto"? Or would it affect things even when manually turning on the defrost or other functions?
That Cabin Temp Sensor / "Aspirator" is prone to drawing in dust over the years. It's also more than a temp sensor - it also monitors cabin humidity by a capacitor. If either the thermistor or capacitor gets a layer of dust on it, you'll get fluctuations in A/C performance. Before getting frustrated, clean it out with - I used - a Q-Tip with contact cleaner. It's easy to access, you don't have to remove it from the frame. Carefully pry off the bit of "wood" trim above the steering wheel, this will expose the sensor enough that you can get access to clean out the accumulated dust from the faces of the capacitor and thermistor. Worth a try before wasting more trips to the dealer....
I had thought that the Direct Pressure Sensing Valve is internal to the compressor...
U102768: What scan tool are you using? I'm wanting to get one with better features than low-cost scanners, but not as pricey as SDD gear.
You get the ability to scan all modules for one make of car for free for ever then pay a yearly subscription for other makes so I bought two as it works out cheaper over the long run.
I think you can still do basic OBD scans on other cars without paying any extra though.
Ugh. Frustrations continue. Got a call from the dealer and the service advisor says my car is good to go. I go to pick it up and the report says "Diagnostic found freon full but compressor not cycling. Found compressor clutch connector not seated correctly causing high resistance in line not allowing clutch to operate correctly." This was supposedly corrected, and I was glad to see no charge. Of course, when I pick up the car, it's still just blowing barely cool but humid air. I bring it back in after driving a bit, and the tech and service advisor go back over it and ultimately tell me they don't know what the problem is. They insist the compressor is working fine and freon is full. The dealer tech admits he doesn't really know what to do and wasn't the one who concluded the compressor needed to be replaced in November. But suspects it's an electrical thing because he pulled up a bunch of codes regarding low voltage or lost comms. He says it will probably take 3-4 hours of diagnostics but admits he really doesn't have a plan. Finally, he suggests I go to a well-regarded indie Jag specialist to get his thoughts. I call the indie who seems to also be at a loss if the dealer couldn't figure it out. Finally he says his best educated guess is to replace the auxiliary fan, which he says is often replaced in tandem with the compressor. Both techs, dealer and indie, insist the fan can't really be tested, and if it's an intermittent issue, it just needs to be replaced. I'm quoted $1600 for an "educated guess." Kind of a tough decision since I still love the car and this is really the only issue I have to complain about. It obviously takes away from enjoyment of the car if the AC is hit or miss, but I've lived with it being subpar for a while now. I just don't want to throw money on another non-definitive fix now that I'm out of warranty. I might try cleaning or replacing the cabin air sensor, but neither tech I talked to seemed to think it was the problem.
Any suggestions on how to move forward?
U102768: did you ever get a resolution on your issue? Your comment seems to go against what the local tech are telling me with regard to being able to check how the fan is functioning.
First off, these cars don't HAVE AC "clutches". They are continuous drive.
Are the high pressure lines hot? Are the low pressure lines cold? If you get no cold after Rapid Expansion, then you don't have cooling at all. This would also show if your compressor was operating correctly.
If you DO get cold lines, then maybe your ECS is doing stupid stuff.
Is your cabin .....what's that sensor thing called...... Aspirator, is that clean and operating correctly. You never mentioned if you checked it or not.
The "aspirator" is very much a part of the A/C system. The small fan behind it draws cabin air (as well as dust and particulates) into it where it's analysed by the thermistor and capacitor, and the results sent to the A/C controller. It's a (10) minute job to clear dust off the face of the components inside, worth a try.
Once your A/C is working, then you too can be blessed by the Duck Bill Situation...
First off, these cars don't HAVE AC "clutches". They are continuous drive.
Are the high pressure lines hot? Are the low pressure lines cold? If you get no cold after Rapid Expansion, then you don't have cooling at all. This would also show if your compressor was operating correctly.
If you DO get cold lines, then maybe your ECS is doing stupid stuff.
Is your cabin .....what's that sensor thing called...... Aspirator, is that clean and operating correctly. You never mentioned if you checked it or not.
Originally Posted by Tracee
The "aspirator" is very much a part of the A/C system. The small fan behind it draws cabin air (as well as dust and particulates) into it where it's analysed by the thermistor and capacitor, and the results sent to the A/C controller. It's a (10) minute job to clear dust off the face of the components inside, worth a try.
Once your A/C is working, then you too can be blessed by the Duck Bill Situation...
Thanks will try cleaning out the aspirator / temp sensor. The dealer tech didn't think much of it when I brought it up, but he certainly didn't seem to have any better ideas either. Don't think the duck bill thing applies to my gen.
U102768: did you ever get a resolution on your issue? Your comment seems to go against what the local tech are telling me with regard to being able to check how the fan is functioning.
It is winter here so I haven't looked into it too hard and it seems fine around town. I am going on another 1,000km road trip at the beginning of July and will plug my diagnostic dongle in and monitor things if I feel that the A/C performance is dropping off.
The dealer really should be able to use SDD to monitor your system in action though to make sure that the pressure is OK, the fan is being brought on if/when the pressure rises and what the evaporator temperature is.
I can monitor the flaps as well with my dongle and watch them cycle through the various stages as I raise and lower the demand temperature. Yours may be stuck in one position but monitoring the evaporator temperature would be a good start.
A/C Is above my pay grade, but it's not rocket science. The Workshop (Service) Manuals and Electrical Guides are in the Stickies at the top of this Forum and include troubleshooting steps to properly diagnose and fix problems. Here's the link: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...guides-215509/
Good Luck! It may be worth the drive to Houston to get it fixed.
05-24-2021, 04:31 PM
AC inconsistent even after compressor replaced
