Air Conditioner Question
#21
05-18-2022, 01:55 PM
At the moment I'm fixed on the fan as the possible issue, since I can observe it. When I first start the car and idle, the AC refuses to get cold and I can tell the fan is not running. Isn't there something in the AC system that would tell the fan to turn on in this situation? I know the fan is not totally dead as I can it running after a short drive.
#23
05-24-2022, 02:30 AM
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At the moment I'm fixed on the fan as the possible issue, since I can observe it. When I first start the car and idle, the AC refuses to get cold and I can tell the fan is not running. Isn't there something in the AC system that would tell the fan to turn on in this situation? I know the fan is not totally dead as I can it running after a short drive.
One sure way to make that test safe is to disconnect the battery. A fan with failing bearings may run under some conditions and not others. Less likely is the pressure sensor (on HP (small) refrigerant line. The pressure sensor modulates a 5V signal to the Automatic Temperature Control Module (ATC). The ATC sends a signal to the engine control module via CAN to activate the radiator/condenser fan. Failure in the pressure sensor through to the fan would likely set one or more trouble codes.
Keep us posted on what you find.
PS: No reports of successful radiator fan motor bearing replacement have been noted on the forum, as yet.
#24
05-29-2022, 02:58 PM
Loss of refrigerant is far, far more common than a fan going out. Cold air while moving but not while stationary is highly indicative of that, and if your car hasn't overheated, I wouldn't even bother thinking about the fan. Anyway, DO NOT use one of those quick charge R-134 cans they have at the auto parts store. Those things will introduce moisture and create a bubble in the refrigerant, so to speak, and either of those conditions demand professional service. The system will need to be evacuated and then put under vacuum to check for leaks, so you'll need to take it to an AC shop for any repairs. Be sure to mention that you'd like the Schrader valves replaced when they do their test. Those are the problem, or at least are a contributing factor to the problem, about 75% of the time, and are cheap and easy to replace. If the shop is worth their signage they'll replace them anyway, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
If you have good hearing, you can crack open the high and low port caps to listen for a short hiss. That will tell you that the Schraders are indeed leaking. It's not a loud noise, so you'll need to do it in your garage and with your ear close to the caps. You can also look at the view ports on your high and low sides for bubbles. Start the car, turn your AC on the coldest setting and watch for bubbles. You may need to use a flash light to get a good look. If you see any, that's definitely a low charge. If none of that makes sense, don't worry about it and just take it in because all that'd do in your case is give you a little FYI/gee whiz info.
If you have good hearing, you can crack open the high and low port caps to listen for a short hiss. That will tell you that the Schraders are indeed leaking. It's not a loud noise, so you'll need to do it in your garage and with your ear close to the caps. You can also look at the view ports on your high and low sides for bubbles. Start the car, turn your AC on the coldest setting and watch for bubbles. You may need to use a flash light to get a good look. If you see any, that's definitely a low charge. If none of that makes sense, don't worry about it and just take it in because all that'd do in your case is give you a little FYI/gee whiz info.
Hi all,
I have the 2011 XJL Supercharged. My A/C is running warm. I am guessing it needs to be recharged with some refrigerant. Which side is the low side? I want to top up with my own can of 134a. Can I just top up on the low pressure port as in the picture attached?
Thanks
Don
#26
05-29-2022, 04:33 PM
Veteran Member
https://smile.amazon.com/OrionMotorT...s%2C340&sr=8-3
#27
05-30-2022, 07:24 AM
DChump: Go to a good shop and have them do a vacuum and refill. As noted above, they should replace the schrader valves and probably the drier. Also replacement oil.
As Bill400 pointed out, a good shop is more likely to fully test the refrigerant.
$300-500 or so means its done right, and cheap for something that should only happen once in the lifetime of the car.
Good luck
As Bill400 pointed out, a good shop is more likely to fully test the refrigerant.
$300-500 or so means its done right, and cheap for something that should only happen once in the lifetime of the car.
Good luck
#28
05-30-2022, 11:56 AM
I've recharged many a car with cans. However, I do have them attached to a gauge manifold to check pressures.
https://smile.amazon.com/OrionMotorT...s%2C340&sr=8-3
https://smile.amazon.com/OrionMotorT...s%2C340&sr=8-3
It was a clutchless unit, like the XK150, making an odd noise until I recharged it. Noise sounded like a failing clutch on one of the old clutch-type units. Recharge fixed it. But pressure wasn't an indicator in this particular case.
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Bill400 (08-01-2022)
#29
07-14-2022, 08:26 PM
Thank you to all who replied.
Had the car to the shop twice this year for this issue. The first time they found the refrigerant low and leaking Schrader valves. (They had put dye in the system last year and the valves now showed the dye) The new valves were installed and the refrigerant was refilled. In addition, I was told that the fan was indeed working and did not be replaced. This fix however provided no joy.
Second time in they found that the fan, while working, was not coming on when the AC should be demanding it to come on. The problem was traced back to the DSP valve. A new DSP valve and another refrigerant fill and problem is now repaired.
@Firm and @Bill400 got it right!
Had the car to the shop twice this year for this issue. The first time they found the refrigerant low and leaking Schrader valves. (They had put dye in the system last year and the valves now showed the dye) The new valves were installed and the refrigerant was refilled. In addition, I was told that the fan was indeed working and did not be replaced. This fix however provided no joy.
Second time in they found that the fan, while working, was not coming on when the AC should be demanding it to come on. The problem was traced back to the DSP valve. A new DSP valve and another refrigerant fill and problem is now repaired.
@Firm and @Bill400 got it right!
#30
07-18-2022, 07:21 AM
Just to add to this, I had my DSP valve replaced last year. The car has been slowly loosing it's ability to blow cold air... over about year I had noticed it being less ice cool, then gradually less and less cool. I had my air con man come and re-charge, he did so but did say that the pressures in the pipes/system were all over the place and couldn't work out why.
At idle there was no cooling at all by now, I had to be driving the car to get any cooling.
Did some research and got my local specialist to replace the DSP (£400 all in). Sorted.
At idle there was no cooling at all by now, I had to be driving the car to get any cooling.
Did some research and got my local specialist to replace the DSP (£400 all in). Sorted.
#31
07-18-2022, 12:22 PM
Apologies if this takes this thread off on a tangent, but I too have a slow-to-react AC system that I’ve figured out is due to an electronics issue not really related to the compressor, Freon, etc.
My symptom is that the car’s AC is very slow to kick in as I leave my garage. Right now in Houston it’s extremely hot outside while my insulated (and occasionally AC’d) garage is always quite a bit cooler. My other cars almost immediately kick on high and cool the cabin down rapidly, while the XKR takes several minutes for the AC to do anything at all, and then it seems to spool up slowly. Almost accidentally I discovered that the cause seems to be the external temperature sensor, as evidenced by the external temperature displayed in the climate control menu. That value seems very slow to react, taking several minutes to even start registering a change from the temperature inside the garage, and then only slowly incrementing to the temperature outside - all the while you’re baking inside the car. Once the differential grows between the set internal value and the sensed external value, the AC seems to work well. As proof of this, if I park the car outside, the external temperature displayed is suitably high to begin with, and the AC comes on immediately.
For now, I’m chalking this up to the “character” of the car.
My symptom is that the car’s AC is very slow to kick in as I leave my garage. Right now in Houston it’s extremely hot outside while my insulated (and occasionally AC’d) garage is always quite a bit cooler. My other cars almost immediately kick on high and cool the cabin down rapidly, while the XKR takes several minutes for the AC to do anything at all, and then it seems to spool up slowly. Almost accidentally I discovered that the cause seems to be the external temperature sensor, as evidenced by the external temperature displayed in the climate control menu. That value seems very slow to react, taking several minutes to even start registering a change from the temperature inside the garage, and then only slowly incrementing to the temperature outside - all the while you’re baking inside the car. Once the differential grows between the set internal value and the sensed external value, the AC seems to work well. As proof of this, if I park the car outside, the external temperature displayed is suitably high to begin with, and the AC comes on immediately.
For now, I’m chalking this up to the “character” of the car.
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Bill400 (07-19-2022)
#32
07-18-2022, 12:28 PM
A drop of PAG refrigerant oil in the access port demonstrates good Schraeder valves. Replacing perfectly good valves is profitable for the shop if not part of necessary evacuating and recharging the system. The tool for under pressure valve core replacement typically requires more clearance than available.
but I found a workable solution. But note it’s just a barely workable solution. On the tour I removed the nut that holds the rod into the valve assembly and added two more O-rings to it and then re-inserted it and they gave me just enough room to pull the rug back to remove the valve core without losing any refrigerant. That being said I lost quite a lot of refrigerant trying to get that dang valve core out before I added the O-rings. Like one or two extra O-rings in the back of that nut gives you just enough room to get that valve core out.
I guess I have to ask the big question l as to why the tool doesn’t come with just an extra couple of millimeters in the body to make this happen???
btw. Just for a point of reference, on my 2006 S type R I had two Schrader valves that were troublesome. One was stuck closed and when I attached the gauge set it pretty much destroyed the tip of the Schrader valve and the other one was leaky. So I went to my parts car to steal those Schrader valves and one was bad (also stuck closed) and the other was and usable. so the Schrader valves seem to have an inherent problem after a while.
Last edited by Aarcuda; 07-18-2022 at 12:32 PM.
#33
07-19-2022, 08:53 AM
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Apologies if this takes this thread off on a tangent, but I too have a slow-to-react AC system that I’ve figured out is due to an electronics issue not really related to the compressor, Freon, etc.
... the external temperature sensor, as evidenced by the external temperature displayed in the climate control menu... seems very slow to react, taking several minutes to even start registering a change from the temperature inside the garage,.. .
... the external temperature sensor, as evidenced by the external temperature displayed in the climate control menu... seems very slow to react, taking several minutes to even start registering a change from the temperature inside the garage,.. .
The sensor is somewhat massive but, not blessed with your "problem", a slow response has not been noticed.
Is the sensor in the OEM bracket, unobstructed, in front of the condenser/radiator assembly?
Post front-end collision repair, they are sometimes tucked away or just left hanging.
Alternatively, the sensor may have a poor connection or be failing internally.
Consider unplugging the sensor and spray the contacts with contact cleaner.
Better yet, substitute a known good sensor.
Let us know if you find a solution.
PS: Do you hear the cabin HVAC sensor aspirator?
#34
07-28-2022, 02:40 PM
There is an electronic control valve in the compressor that gets stuck, i've replaced it.
The reason it gets stuck is most people do not know how to use their AC properly and leave the
setting on MAX cold and use the fan adjustment to control how much air comes in the car.
If you set the temperature and let the AUTO function control the fan and cooling the valve will turn
on and off as needed and not always be in MAX compression mode causing unnecessary wear and
potentially getting stuck in one position.
The reason it gets stuck is most people do not know how to use their AC properly and leave the
setting on MAX cold and use the fan adjustment to control how much air comes in the car.
If you set the temperature and let the AUTO function control the fan and cooling the valve will turn
on and off as needed and not always be in MAX compression mode causing unnecessary wear and
potentially getting stuck in one position.
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ralphwg (07-28-2022)
#35
07-31-2022, 10:14 PM
Junior Member
Thank you to all who replied.
Had the car to the shop twice this year for this issue. The first time they found the refrigerant low and leaking Schrader valves. (They had put dye in the system last year and the valves now showed the dye) The new valves were installed and the refrigerant was refilled. In addition, I was told that the fan was indeed working and did not be replaced. This fix however provided no joy.
Second time in they found that the fan, while working, was not coming on when the AC should be demanding it to come on. The problem was traced back to the DSP valve. A new DSP valve and another refrigerant fill and problem is now repaired.
@Firm and @Bill400 got it right!
Had the car to the shop twice this year for this issue. The first time they found the refrigerant low and leaking Schrader valves. (They had put dye in the system last year and the valves now showed the dye) The new valves were installed and the refrigerant was refilled. In addition, I was told that the fan was indeed working and did not be replaced. This fix however provided no joy.
Second time in they found that the fan, while working, was not coming on when the AC should be demanding it to come on. The problem was traced back to the DSP valve. A new DSP valve and another refrigerant fill and problem is now repaired.
@Firm and @Bill400 got it right!
#36
08-01-2022, 06:38 AM
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Pros and Cons of dealer/JLR specialist for A/C service: SDD allows monitoring of condenser pressure, evaporator temperature, evaporator fan speed. Condenser/radiator fan PWM voltage (thus speed) may be monitored and controlled.
Additionally, a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers provide additional data.
There does not appear to be direct monitoring by SDD of the compressor DSP valve. However, operation of the control panel temperature setting should be reflected in monitored temperature and pressure parameters.
Of course, all switches, buttons and dampers are monitored by SDD.
A/C specialists typically use a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers, volt and ammeters, as well as observation of evaporator and condenser fans to determine proper operation.
The unknow quantity is the expertise, specific knowledge (JRL?) and applied competence of the A/C craftsman. Although the JLR dealer/specialist may have the SDD advantage available, is it understood/utilized?
It all boils down to the individual craftsman.
Additionally, a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers provide additional data.
There does not appear to be direct monitoring by SDD of the compressor DSP valve. However, operation of the control panel temperature setting should be reflected in monitored temperature and pressure parameters.
Of course, all switches, buttons and dampers are monitored by SDD.
A/C specialists typically use a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers, volt and ammeters, as well as observation of evaporator and condenser fans to determine proper operation.
The unknow quantity is the expertise, specific knowledge (JRL?) and applied competence of the A/C craftsman. Although the JLR dealer/specialist may have the SDD advantage available, is it understood/utilized?
It all boils down to the individual craftsman.
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jahummer (08-01-2022)
#37
08-01-2022, 09:52 AM
Pros and Cons of dealer/JLR specialist for A/C service: SDD allows monitoring of condenser pressure, evaporator temperature, evaporator fan speed. Condenser/radiator fan PWM voltage (thus speed) may be monitored and controlled.
Additionally, a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers provide additional data.
There does not appear to be direct monitoring by SDD of the compressor DSP valve. However, operation of the control panel temperature setting should be reflected in monitored temperature and pressure parameters.
Of course, all switches, buttons and dampers are monitored by SDD.
A/C specialists typically use a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers, volt and ammeters, as well as observation of evaporator and condenser fans to determine proper operation.
The unknow quantity is the expertise, specific knowledge (JRL?) and applied competence of the A/C craftsman. Although the JLR dealer/specialist may have the SDD advantage available, is it understood/utilized?
It all boils down to the individual craftsman.
Additionally, a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers provide additional data.
There does not appear to be direct monitoring by SDD of the compressor DSP valve. However, operation of the control panel temperature setting should be reflected in monitored temperature and pressure parameters.
Of course, all switches, buttons and dampers are monitored by SDD.
A/C specialists typically use a refrigerant gauge set and thermometers, volt and ammeters, as well as observation of evaporator and condenser fans to determine proper operation.
The unknow quantity is the expertise, specific knowledge (JRL?) and applied competence of the A/C craftsman. Although the JLR dealer/specialist may have the SDD advantage available, is it understood/utilized?
It all boils down to the individual craftsman.
#38
08-01-2022, 12:50 PM
i see your in Rocklin... did you get the work done there or the Sac Jag? I have spent many thousands of dollars at both and in my opinion Rocklin do not know how to work on Jags, the techs only know Land Rovers, they like to sell you stuff that does not solve the problem and you end up bringing back several times to actually fix the issue.. I have one issue they have worked on several times and still cannot solve it... i gave up on it .....but now my A/C (2011 KXR175 SC) is doing the exact same thing yours is and seeing they actually fixed yours I might be inclined to take and have them check it out, what was the final cost?
The bill for the actual repair was $1k. They comped the diagnoses since this was my third time in for this problem. Knowing what I know now, if they said the refrigerant was low (which they did and it was), I would try that first.
#39
08-02-2022, 08:11 AM
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Ive noticed a lack of documentation as to how these newer systems work. Do you know of any technical resources that explain what inputs are used to adjust the various AC components? Im familiar with auto ac system operation but most ive worked on are basic systems that dont use to many control inputs- usually just pressure and temperature readings to run fans or operate txvs. Theres not much out there that gives a full description of these more sophisticated jag systems.
Go to: Jaguar Forums File Download Area, Folder Index - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum
Look under XK X150
TT Guide 711 does a pretty good job of explaining how the system works.
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Aarcuda (08-04-2022)
#40
08-04-2022, 03:59 PM
Junior Member
I've had the car for almost 8 years, which is long before the Rocklin dealership existed. So I've always used the Sacramento Jaguar for service. Sac Jag has always treated me very well, but of course, that comes at a steep price. Never been to Rocklin Jag for repairs. Coincidently, my wife just leased an F-Pace from Rocklin Jag. The sales team seemed really nice and low pressure.
The bill for the actual repair was $1k. They comped the diagnoses since this was my third time in for this problem. Knowing what I know now, if they said the refrigerant was low (which they did and it was), I would try that first.
The bill for the actual repair was $1k. They comped the diagnoses since this was my third time in for this problem. Knowing what I know now, if they said the refrigerant was low (which they did and it was), I would try that first.
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