Battery Issues with 2013 XK
#21
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Bill,
That's because when I joined this Forum 10 years ago I knew as much about my XKR as you do now. This is a great place to learn a lot about our cars and appreciate how great they are in terms of design, materials, and how they were manufactured.
Enjoy these two videos.
Top Gear 2007 XKR
Stuart
That's because when I joined this Forum 10 years ago I knew as much about my XKR as you do now. This is a great place to learn a lot about our cars and appreciate how great they are in terms of design, materials, and how they were manufactured.
Enjoy these two videos.
Top Gear 2007 XKR
Stuart
Last edited by Stuart S; 10-26-2020 at 12:35 PM.
#22
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Thanks for bringing this back to life @Stuart S . This captures exactly what I think about these cars.
and better yet, very few know.
It’s for the reasons listed in these videos that I really need to think about “will this modification enhance”?
I love driving the car hard and some of those mods are strictly for looks, not handling.
and better yet, very few know.
It’s for the reasons listed in these videos that I really need to think about “will this modification enhance”?
I love driving the car hard and some of those mods are strictly for looks, not handling.
#23
#25
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I had similar problems with my 2010 XKR where the battery would be flat for no apparent reason. Many visits to dealer, new battery etc. Then I found a service bulletin that shows a problem with the battery monitoring module. Has this changed and no problems since. Not too expensive, CAN$300 and I got Jag to pay for it! Might be worth checking if your VIN is one of the affected cars.
#26
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I used to hang my key just inside the garage door which was about 6 ft from the ignition but thru the wall. Kept going thru key fob batteries and needing to charge the battery as well (before I put maintainer on it) found out this was too close and caused usage due to attempted communication between items. That’s also when I learned to always lock the car. So key fob distance is also an issue it seems. Still go thru fob batteries about every 2 months when using regularly. A little better since I started using higher quality batteries also.
#27
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I have six Jaguars sitting in my driveway. A 95- XJ6, a 98-XJ8, a 2000 4.0 S-type and three 3.0 X-type's. In regard to battery issues. I can only trust the X-type. Which explains my affection for this model.
The XJ's and the S-type share the same battery maintenance issues that many of you also suffer. The word suffer hardly describes how inconvenient this is. I've never owned any other vehicle that drains
batteries the way these cars do. I have installed brand new batteries, just to find the new battery dead the next day. I can't trust these cars. This is far from practical and absolutely unacceptable.
I love the way these cars drive. But these electrical issues are driving me away. Jaguar has a long history of electrical issue that go way back before Ford took over Jaguar. These unresolved electrical
issues almost killed the company. It was the primary reason that most buyers steer clear of Jaguar. Why Jaguar has not effectively corrected this battery issue is unforgivable. Just the fact that right here on this
forum, many of you openly admit that you have to "maintain" your cars battery between uses. Only highlights your complacency with this issue. If you have your "pet" Jaguar sitting in the garage. By all means, put
a maintainer of the battery if the car is not driven often. We use our cars as daily drivers. All to many times I have gone out to use one and the battery was stone dead. Only the X-type can be trusted to be useful.
The XJ6 has sat next to our garage for years without use. When we first purchased this car, it ran great. Until we began having problems with the battery being dead the next morning. I eventually tracked the problem
down to the security system. Inside each door is a micro switch that tells the security system the latch position. These switches need to all send the same signal. I had one that was stuck and never changed. This put the
security system active all the time. Draining the battery. I corrected this and the car ran great again right up to the point when it just stops running. The car was electrically dead. I eventually found a "cooked" main
connector on the frame near the right front headlight. I have not been able to find what is overloading that circuit.
The 98 XJ8 is a car I picked up for $400 and needed motor work. The car is in great shape other then the usual problems with the clear coat. In all honestly, we have not used the car since I completed the engine rebuild.
That doesn't mean I trust that it will not have the same problem as the XJ6, being these cars are very similar. Right now it sits because the fuel pump has failed.
The 4.0 S-type has been this ongoing battle that appears to have no solution. This car was purchased and needed motor work. I installed a professionally rebuilt engine. The engine is a beast, and the car ran great at first.
Then came the constant battery failures. We now keep the car plugged in to a maintainer whenever it's parked. I have tried to monitor the current draw on various circuits while the car is shut off. That has not bore any fruit.
I've tried to isolate different circuits in an effort to corner the power drain without totally gutting the cars interior.
I've owned Chevys and Fords. Dodges and Toyotas. I've owned a Datsun 240Z. We had a couple Buicks for a short while. None of these cars have ever given me battery or electrical issues like these Jags do.
My father was an auto mechanic. I grew up around cars. I've never seen this before. How one manufacture can allow these similar issues to persist over decades. Makes me question a willingness to solve the problem.
At some point, you would think that leadership would stop and decide that they need to reevaluate their engineering. The idea that you can not connect a charger directly to a battery makes my head hurt. Many of you
have advocated the practice of connecting ground to a frame ground to protect damaging the electronics. A ground point no more then 10 inches from the battery. If the electronics can not handle a 12 volt surge. Then
there is a major engineering problem. Voltage is not the problem, Current is the problem. Something is drawing way to much current and that is what damages the circuit. It's also what drains the battery.
In my years of automation industrial repair. We often would see these high voltage motor starters fail due to a poor connection. The poor connection would spike the current across the contacts and blow out the contacts.
Something very similar is at work here. The problem is locating this poor connection in the miles of wire inside one of these cars. It's clear that Jaguar engineers have not learned their lesson, following their failures during
the 70's and 80's and I don't have the time to be constantly chasing these electrical failures.
I'm pretty much at the point of being done with this phase in my life. I'm ready to start selling them off and buy something American made that I can actually trust. Repairing my Jaguars has become a full time job I don't need.
The XJ's and the S-type share the same battery maintenance issues that many of you also suffer. The word suffer hardly describes how inconvenient this is. I've never owned any other vehicle that drains
batteries the way these cars do. I have installed brand new batteries, just to find the new battery dead the next day. I can't trust these cars. This is far from practical and absolutely unacceptable.
I love the way these cars drive. But these electrical issues are driving me away. Jaguar has a long history of electrical issue that go way back before Ford took over Jaguar. These unresolved electrical
issues almost killed the company. It was the primary reason that most buyers steer clear of Jaguar. Why Jaguar has not effectively corrected this battery issue is unforgivable. Just the fact that right here on this
forum, many of you openly admit that you have to "maintain" your cars battery between uses. Only highlights your complacency with this issue. If you have your "pet" Jaguar sitting in the garage. By all means, put
a maintainer of the battery if the car is not driven often. We use our cars as daily drivers. All to many times I have gone out to use one and the battery was stone dead. Only the X-type can be trusted to be useful.
The XJ6 has sat next to our garage for years without use. When we first purchased this car, it ran great. Until we began having problems with the battery being dead the next morning. I eventually tracked the problem
down to the security system. Inside each door is a micro switch that tells the security system the latch position. These switches need to all send the same signal. I had one that was stuck and never changed. This put the
security system active all the time. Draining the battery. I corrected this and the car ran great again right up to the point when it just stops running. The car was electrically dead. I eventually found a "cooked" main
connector on the frame near the right front headlight. I have not been able to find what is overloading that circuit.
The 98 XJ8 is a car I picked up for $400 and needed motor work. The car is in great shape other then the usual problems with the clear coat. In all honestly, we have not used the car since I completed the engine rebuild.
That doesn't mean I trust that it will not have the same problem as the XJ6, being these cars are very similar. Right now it sits because the fuel pump has failed.
The 4.0 S-type has been this ongoing battle that appears to have no solution. This car was purchased and needed motor work. I installed a professionally rebuilt engine. The engine is a beast, and the car ran great at first.
Then came the constant battery failures. We now keep the car plugged in to a maintainer whenever it's parked. I have tried to monitor the current draw on various circuits while the car is shut off. That has not bore any fruit.
I've tried to isolate different circuits in an effort to corner the power drain without totally gutting the cars interior.
I've owned Chevys and Fords. Dodges and Toyotas. I've owned a Datsun 240Z. We had a couple Buicks for a short while. None of these cars have ever given me battery or electrical issues like these Jags do.
My father was an auto mechanic. I grew up around cars. I've never seen this before. How one manufacture can allow these similar issues to persist over decades. Makes me question a willingness to solve the problem.
At some point, you would think that leadership would stop and decide that they need to reevaluate their engineering. The idea that you can not connect a charger directly to a battery makes my head hurt. Many of you
have advocated the practice of connecting ground to a frame ground to protect damaging the electronics. A ground point no more then 10 inches from the battery. If the electronics can not handle a 12 volt surge. Then
there is a major engineering problem. Voltage is not the problem, Current is the problem. Something is drawing way to much current and that is what damages the circuit. It's also what drains the battery.
In my years of automation industrial repair. We often would see these high voltage motor starters fail due to a poor connection. The poor connection would spike the current across the contacts and blow out the contacts.
Something very similar is at work here. The problem is locating this poor connection in the miles of wire inside one of these cars. It's clear that Jaguar engineers have not learned their lesson, following their failures during
the 70's and 80's and I don't have the time to be constantly chasing these electrical failures.
I'm pretty much at the point of being done with this phase in my life. I'm ready to start selling them off and buy something American made that I can actually trust. Repairing my Jaguars has become a full time job I don't need.
#28
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One very important difference between the 4.2L and 5.0L models: You can safely attach the CTEK pigtails directly to the positive and negative battery terminals on the 4.2L models. However, because the 5.0L models use a Battery Monitoring System module that is attached to the negative battery terminal,you must never attach the negative CTEK pigtail directly to the negative battery terminal! Doing so will damage that module. So, always attach the negative pigtail to a chassis ground.
There are lots of threads about various ways to do this, including using the remote battery terminals.
There are lots of threads about various ways to do this, including using the remote battery terminals.
#29
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I attach my 120v battery charger/maintainer to the remote positive on the left side and the remote negative on the right side . Some here attach the negative to a more convenient body bolt or such on the left, but such a point will likely involve higher resistance paths and consequently hot spots under starting currents.
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Stuart S (11-09-2020)
#30
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Stuart S (11-09-2020)
#31
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Same, for one fob I think I’m on the third battery in 12 years, the other fob had a rinse in the wash and though it fully works, needs a battery change once per month.
As for vehicle batteries, I’ve had quite a few (10) JLR products starting in 2003. Now some were 2-3 year leases so I can’t include them in this case study but for others the batteries have consistently lasted about 6 years. And for the most part other makes as well (Mercedes, VW, Jeep, Infiniti, Ram, etc) The exceptions have been an Infiniti QX80 which went through 2 batteries in a 3 year period from new and a 2015 L319 which is on its 4th warranty battery AND had the BMS replaced in 2017.
As for vehicle batteries, I’ve had quite a few (10) JLR products starting in 2003. Now some were 2-3 year leases so I can’t include them in this case study but for others the batteries have consistently lasted about 6 years. And for the most part other makes as well (Mercedes, VW, Jeep, Infiniti, Ram, etc) The exceptions have been an Infiniti QX80 which went through 2 batteries in a 3 year period from new and a 2015 L319 which is on its 4th warranty battery AND had the BMS replaced in 2017.
#32
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I bought my 07 XK a few weeks ago, and followed all the good advice in this thread, and in many others, about battery care. I bought a new battery, fully charged, a couple of weeks ago, the old battery showing signs of collapse. I also bought a CTEK MXS 5.0 maintainer and I keep the battery on the CTEK whenever in the garage. I wired the CTEK Comfort Connect positive lead to the positive battery terminal and the negative lead to the chassis ground point. The maintainer's charge status lights seem to indicate that the battery is or after the requisite interval becomes fully charged. But...
Yesterday, I was preparing to pull the car out the garage to do some minor work on the interior. I disconnected the CTEK, climbed in, depressed the brake and hit the start button. The instrument display lit up momentarily, then click, then nothing. The LCD panel showed a fault for no cruise control. I tried again. This time, nothing at all - no crank, no click, no display. I got out, reconnected the CTEK - no change. The CTEK charge status lights were completely off, which I took to mean the circuit from CTEK to battery was open. The car seemed to have gone into brick mode. Pucker time. I removed the trunk floor and panel to expose the battery, and starting checking the wiring. Almost at once, the car came to life - courtesy lights came on, radio came on, open door warning started. Ok, I thought. Tried to start the car again, same thing. I disconnected the CTEK, reconnected and got one battery charge light on. That's good I thought. I left the CTEK charging for a couple of hours. It then showed 4 lights, meaning I could try to start the car. This time, success.
I've left the car on the maintainer overnight and it's now showing 7-lights - battery fully charged.
Anyone have a thought as to what happened?
Yesterday, I was preparing to pull the car out the garage to do some minor work on the interior. I disconnected the CTEK, climbed in, depressed the brake and hit the start button. The instrument display lit up momentarily, then click, then nothing. The LCD panel showed a fault for no cruise control. I tried again. This time, nothing at all - no crank, no click, no display. I got out, reconnected the CTEK - no change. The CTEK charge status lights were completely off, which I took to mean the circuit from CTEK to battery was open. The car seemed to have gone into brick mode. Pucker time. I removed the trunk floor and panel to expose the battery, and starting checking the wiring. Almost at once, the car came to life - courtesy lights came on, radio came on, open door warning started. Ok, I thought. Tried to start the car again, same thing. I disconnected the CTEK, reconnected and got one battery charge light on. That's good I thought. I left the CTEK charging for a couple of hours. It then showed 4 lights, meaning I could try to start the car. This time, success.
I've left the car on the maintainer overnight and it's now showing 7-lights - battery fully charged.
Anyone have a thought as to what happened?
#33
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Help - Just purchased a new CTEK MXS 5.0 for my 2010 XK Convert. Works fine with the clamps attached to Positive inside back grille and Negative to ground point in spare tire wheel well When I attempt to attach the permanent 'Harness' ant then connect the CTEK - I get a Red Light indicating a problem. Car is now in hard Service Mode. Taking it in for Reset today. Any thoughts?? The harness ohms out OK. Fuse is fine. Any help is appreciated.
We need to know exactly what you did when you attached your CTEK eyelet connector pigtail to the battery. Specifically, what did you disconnect and connect, in what order, and to where; was the ignition on or off or in Convenience Mode; did you connect the CTEK to the pigtail before or after you plugged it into the wall socket?
I've had my battery maintainer connected to the remote battery terminals using alligator clips with no problems for many years, and see no advantage in permanently attaching it with the eyelet pigtail.
#34
#35
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I explained this in my Post #3, above.
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ralphwg (11-10-2020)
#37
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Thanks, Stuart, for the prompt reply. I started fine with the clamps - unit worked fine. Then - with car ignition OFF - I attached the Red lead to the Positive terminal inside the grille at rear of trunk. Then attacked the Black (negative) lead to a body stud located in spare tire wheel well. When connected to CTEK - just the Red indicator light came on - and unit signaled SMALL battery - toggled the Mode button several times with no luck. Disconnected everything and went back to the clamps. The car apparently went into Service Mode - audible alarm in dash when in motion (Drive or Reverse) - could not get it out of Service Mode - the reset procedure (which I've performed several times after oil change) would NOT reset. Left car charging over the weekend - it ran today just fine - no alarm. We now permanently hooked the 'harness' inside battery 'hatch' at back of trunk under the top storage well. All works fine now. Appreciate your response.
#38
#39
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I don't think it damages it, it just confuses it because you are putting a charge on the battery that it isn't aware of.
#40
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