Boost Gauge readings
#41
04-07-2017, 04:46 AM
Veteran Member
It’s not to attack you in any way, but having this type of pressure isn’t really normal imho with the Eaton here.
If you would have better airflow thru the engine, you would lower the pressure not increase, so it almost sounds as if there is some blockage somewhere!
This amount of boost, would consume so much power from the Eaton, it would cost dramatically power (so way over 100hp!) from the engine leave little to the wheels, and chances are that the little pulley might not be able to handle this power without slipping.
You might want to show your MAF readings which would be a very good indication of what you are pushing thru in air.
Have you ever done a dyno?
This amount of boost, would consume so much power from the Eaton, it would cost dramatically power (so way over 100hp!) from the engine leave little to the wheels, and chances are that the little pulley might not be able to handle this power without slipping.
You might want to show your MAF readings which would be a very good indication of what you are pushing thru in air.
Have you ever done a dyno?
#42
04-07-2017, 07:02 AM
Veteran Member
I feel it's reasonable to agree with AVOS that the pressures should be lower unless the drive ratio is excessive. Based on 'common' performance I'd think either the gauge is suspect or the after cooler is excessively restrictive. If it runs well I'd suspect the MAP sensor in the controller wigged out. Should be pretty simple to T and mechanical gauge in and see what it reads.
I have a Holset WH-1C in my Cummins swapped '71 F-350 that is rated for 15 psi of boost. I turned and polished the compressor side, welded the turbine housing and turned it to closer tolerances and it'll run 22 psi all day and will peak around 28 psi with a basic rotary Bosch pump and stock injectors. No smoke either.
Avos, I have a SN-93 5psi Paxton in my '93 Mustang it takes at least 70hp to make the 5 psi of boost at 5500 rpm. Engine dyno'd at 390 RWHP at 5800 rpm and the torque built 306 felt like a big block on the street. I'd suspect the Eaton has similar drive requirements at high boost. I plan on keeping my drive ratio close to stock and just making if flow better. That's why a screw compressor work better. It's not pounding the air into the engine, but screwing it tighter and tighter so it takes less power to compress the gas.
I have a Holset WH-1C in my Cummins swapped '71 F-350 that is rated for 15 psi of boost. I turned and polished the compressor side, welded the turbine housing and turned it to closer tolerances and it'll run 22 psi all day and will peak around 28 psi with a basic rotary Bosch pump and stock injectors. No smoke either.
Avos, I have a SN-93 5psi Paxton in my '93 Mustang it takes at least 70hp to make the 5 psi of boost at 5500 rpm. Engine dyno'd at 390 RWHP at 5800 rpm and the torque built 306 felt like a big block on the street. I'd suspect the Eaton has similar drive requirements at high boost. I plan on keeping my drive ratio close to stock and just making if flow better. That's why a screw compressor work better. It's not pounding the air into the engine, but screwing it tighter and tighter so it takes less power to compress the gas.
#43
04-07-2017, 07:44 AM
Veteran Member
Jahummer, Cambo & Ranchero50:
Jahummer, Am I to apologize for only having a 2005 XKR Coupe or what? This is my 4th XK of which this one is my 3rd XKR, besides all that, It doesn't matter which Engine I have as we are only talking about 256 CI's. Now this is where Ranchero50 comes-in....He gets it, we are talking about an Air-Pump....How much Air can you get through that little Engine in the shortest amount of time....Avos, can tell you that his Kenny Bell 2.8 Screw system is the secret to his High H/P ratings, as it gets a bunch of air through the engine....That is what we all should be talking about but he stopped making them.....but then I guess $7 or $8 thousand is a bunch to throw at a car...unless you think about how much you are willing to pay for a H/P......Haven't thought about the H/P per Dollar ratio.....but his way is probably the cheapest way from scratch, that is if we could still buy it! Personally, I'm not going to build a system such as his because I don't have the time but if some Company, like Derek's here, would start something similar to Avos's and advertise it at a reasonable amount, he should be able to make some Big Bucks off of it!
Now to Mr. Cambo and absolute Pressure and atmospheric Pressure! I'm not an Engineer, therefore I can't comment on all that stuff...All I know is that Mr. Snow's VC-50 Controller on my Water/Methanol system is a Boost-Gauge, in addition to a water injection controller and at idle that Controller does not say that the abundant pressure is 14.7 psi. as a matter of fact it doesn't say anything! But when the pressure is on that little Controller says 25 to 26 lbs. of Boost.....Everyone that has seen it have been shocked! Including me.....What do I think caused this? Simple Porting and Ceramic Coating for better air flow through the Engine......Simple answer!
Once again, the Engine is an Air-Pump! How fast can you get Air through the Engine?
Billy Clyde in Houston
Jahummer, Am I to apologize for only having a 2005 XKR Coupe or what? This is my 4th XK of which this one is my 3rd XKR, besides all that, It doesn't matter which Engine I have as we are only talking about 256 CI's. Now this is where Ranchero50 comes-in....He gets it, we are talking about an Air-Pump....How much Air can you get through that little Engine in the shortest amount of time....Avos, can tell you that his Kenny Bell 2.8 Screw system is the secret to his High H/P ratings, as it gets a bunch of air through the engine....That is what we all should be talking about but he stopped making them.....but then I guess $7 or $8 thousand is a bunch to throw at a car...unless you think about how much you are willing to pay for a H/P......Haven't thought about the H/P per Dollar ratio.....but his way is probably the cheapest way from scratch, that is if we could still buy it! Personally, I'm not going to build a system such as his because I don't have the time but if some Company, like Derek's here, would start something similar to Avos's and advertise it at a reasonable amount, he should be able to make some Big Bucks off of it!
Now to Mr. Cambo and absolute Pressure and atmospheric Pressure! I'm not an Engineer, therefore I can't comment on all that stuff...All I know is that Mr. Snow's VC-50 Controller on my Water/Methanol system is a Boost-Gauge, in addition to a water injection controller and at idle that Controller does not say that the abundant pressure is 14.7 psi. as a matter of fact it doesn't say anything! But when the pressure is on that little Controller says 25 to 26 lbs. of Boost.....Everyone that has seen it have been shocked! Including me.....What do I think caused this? Simple Porting and Ceramic Coating for better air flow through the Engine......Simple answer!
Once again, the Engine is an Air-Pump! How fast can you get Air through the Engine?
Billy Clyde in Houston
#44
04-07-2017, 08:39 AM
Veteran Member
If it were atmospheric, then it would say 14.7 psi with the ignition on and engine off. Methinks sensor / controller problem but since the unit is just a switch as long as it's dosing the water / meth at the correct levels per the load then the pressure calibration is irrelevant, just confusing.
#45
04-07-2017, 08:28 PM
Veteran Member
Guys,
Sorry this has created such a vast array of questions and it seems that everyone has and answer....but still, no one believes me! As I said, the Controller could be wrong, although it is brand new as of a week after SEMA, when we installed it......This is my 2nd Snow/Water/Methanol unit, as I had one on my 2000 XKR..but it was before the VC-50 Controller....It had a little box with little knobs on it.....I don't think I ever got it to work right.....Thank God for the little Lady that just had to have that Car.....That's why it took me so long to try another Snow Unit....but I will have to say to Mr. Snow, "This one works!"
This has been an interesting Thread and I will be back again, after I do a couple more things that need to be done.....Then, I will get you Photos, (No Movies) Cambo! and a Dyno run or two! I'll also get another Boost gauge reading from another Gauge just to see how they match up!
Jesus Guys! You are hard on an old man.....Tell you what! I'll try to get this done before my next surgery....
Billy Clyde in Houston
Sorry this has created such a vast array of questions and it seems that everyone has and answer....but still, no one believes me! As I said, the Controller could be wrong, although it is brand new as of a week after SEMA, when we installed it......This is my 2nd Snow/Water/Methanol unit, as I had one on my 2000 XKR..but it was before the VC-50 Controller....It had a little box with little knobs on it.....I don't think I ever got it to work right.....Thank God for the little Lady that just had to have that Car.....That's why it took me so long to try another Snow Unit....but I will have to say to Mr. Snow, "This one works!"
This has been an interesting Thread and I will be back again, after I do a couple more things that need to be done.....Then, I will get you Photos, (No Movies) Cambo! and a Dyno run or two! I'll also get another Boost gauge reading from another Gauge just to see how they match up!
Jesus Guys! You are hard on an old man.....Tell you what! I'll try to get this done before my next surgery....
Billy Clyde in Houston
#46
04-08-2017, 12:57 AM
Veteran Member
#47
04-08-2017, 04:36 PM
Veteran Member
BC in Houston
#48
04-09-2017, 03:22 AM
Veteran Member
My 1st thought was also the absolute pressure was shown, and considering now that you have an air leak and possible better airflow thru the engine could explain the 11 psi as Cambo noted.
Assuming you speak about the V8 piece gasket, it shouldn't leak (if there is no deformation), you need to be sure that the gasket is ok and also the 4 rubber rings around the bolts. If the latter are somehow worn the V8 piece can lift and cause leakage. I have not noticed leakage at true 24ish psi (or 38.7 absolute). Any other place isn't normal for leakage.
Assuming you speak about the V8 piece gasket, it shouldn't leak (if there is no deformation), you need to be sure that the gasket is ok and also the 4 rubber rings around the bolts. If the latter are somehow worn the V8 piece can lift and cause leakage. I have not noticed leakage at true 24ish psi (or 38.7 absolute). Any other place isn't normal for leakage.
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