Can we talk about the 5.0L water pump
#101
08-10-2015, 06:09 PM
Veteran Member
Haven't seen any statistics on the failures, but I do have a suggestion. Presuming you have a smart phone you can get an obd reader online for about $10-$20 and download the torque app for your bluetooth smart phone. Then you will have a water temperature guage right on your smart phone that you can mount on your dashboard.
I have mounted my Galaxy S6 through $15 dash mount bought through Amazon. Here's the link for various dash mounts: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...as%2Caps%2C208.
the OBD reader link follows: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...ader+bluetooth
Take your pick of them. The whole setup should cost less than $40.
I have mounted my Galaxy S6 through $15 dash mount bought through Amazon. Here's the link for various dash mounts: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...as%2Caps%2C208.
the OBD reader link follows: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...ader+bluetooth
Take your pick of them. The whole setup should cost less than $40.
The following users liked this post:
axr6 (08-10-2015)
#102
08-10-2015, 09:17 PM
Veteran Member
Haven't seen any statistics on the failures, but I do have a suggestion. Presuming you have a smart phone you can get an obd reader online for about $10-$20 and download the torque app for your bluetooth smart phone. Then you will have a water temperature guage right on your smart phone that you can mount on your dashboard.
I have mounted my Galaxy S6 through $15 dash mount bought through Amazon. Here's the link for various dash mounts: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...as%2Caps%2C208.
the OBD reader link follows: Amazon.com: obd reader bluetooth: Automotive
Take your pick of them. The whole setup should cost less than $40.
I have mounted my Galaxy S6 through $15 dash mount bought through Amazon. Here's the link for various dash mounts: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...as%2Caps%2C208.
the OBD reader link follows: Amazon.com: obd reader bluetooth: Automotive
Take your pick of them. The whole setup should cost less than $40.
#103
08-10-2015, 09:37 PM
Just had my water pump replaced as well. Have 60k miles on a 2010 xfr.
My buddy with a Na 5.0L did his at 40.
My engineering intuition tells me that there is a design flaw with the system.
My pump didn't fail but the dealer tells me it was wobbling and grinding away at the block. My overheating issues still exist even though the pump was replaced. It's disappointing and outrageously expensive but I still love the car.
My buddy with a Na 5.0L did his at 40.
My engineering intuition tells me that there is a design flaw with the system.
My pump didn't fail but the dealer tells me it was wobbling and grinding away at the block. My overheating issues still exist even though the pump was replaced. It's disappointing and outrageously expensive but I still love the car.
#104
08-12-2015, 08:25 AM
I have a water pump sitting in my garage that I've taken apart for the 5.0 L SC engine. According to the dealer, it's shot but I beg to differ. The impeller and pulley still spin OK. The pulley has the very slightest of a wobble. You can't see it and you can barely hear it. I think It would have eventually failed, but not for a while yet.
I'll post photos of the disassembled pump with my interpretation of the failure mode when I get a spare moment.
If anyone can tell me how to get the impeller off and bearing out without a hydrolic press. We will be able to verify my theory on how they fail.
I believe a seal fails that exposes antifreeze to the bearing.
Griping about a recall is legitimate but I think there is more value if we put our heads together to piece together an instructable on how to change the pump. Even if it's just a guess initially. It's at the top of the engine and there is four bolts that secure it. It shouldn't be that hard to change.
I'll post photos of the disassembled pump with my interpretation of the failure mode when I get a spare moment.
If anyone can tell me how to get the impeller off and bearing out without a hydrolic press. We will be able to verify my theory on how they fail.
I believe a seal fails that exposes antifreeze to the bearing.
Griping about a recall is legitimate but I think there is more value if we put our heads together to piece together an instructable on how to change the pump. Even if it's just a guess initially. It's at the top of the engine and there is four bolts that secure it. It shouldn't be that hard to change.
Last edited by oldie; 08-12-2015 at 08:30 AM.
#105
08-12-2015, 08:38 AM
Veteran Member
Most likely, the seal fails. This is typical, whether it be a pump in an old classic or a new vehicle.
I've had water pumps go years, without this type of failure.
It's get's back to quality control of their suppliers.
My question now:
For those on your second pump.......
Is the replacement an improved fix?
I've had water pumps go years, without this type of failure.
It's get's back to quality control of their suppliers.
My question now:
For those on your second pump.......
Is the replacement an improved fix?
#106
08-12-2015, 08:43 AM
#108
08-12-2015, 09:04 AM
Excellent thought.
Wouldn't everyone feel silly if they all had their belts too tight. So many water pump failures and I imagine at least some engine failures.
If that was the case, I think other components on the belt would be failing at a similar rate too. Does the water pump feel more pulley force than the alternator?
Very interesting theory but seems like a long shot
Wouldn't everyone feel silly if they all had their belts too tight. So many water pump failures and I imagine at least some engine failures.
If that was the case, I think other components on the belt would be failing at a similar rate too. Does the water pump feel more pulley force than the alternator?
Very interesting theory but seems like a long shot
#109
08-12-2015, 10:10 AM
Veteran Member
Referencing other "components on the belt", would be dependent on the leverage exerted on the drive pulley's bearing hub.
With the use of classic belts (no idlers) tension is very important.
Yes, it may be a "long shot" but still, a simple consideration.
Will be interesting to get the results of the autopsy.
Happy Motoring.....
With the use of classic belts (no idlers) tension is very important.
Yes, it may be a "long shot" but still, a simple consideration.
Will be interesting to get the results of the autopsy.
Happy Motoring.....
#110
08-12-2015, 07:56 PM
Veteran Member
The official cause is 'Internal sealing failure'.
"Coolant ingress into the bearing housing leads to corrosion of the bearing and incorrect support for the impeller shaft. This in turn causes accelerated wear of the mechanical flat face seal leading to coolant loss sufficient to generate a low coolant level warning message in the Instrument cluster display."
They also say "A number of changes to the water pumps have been made to improve product quality"
"Coolant ingress into the bearing housing leads to corrosion of the bearing and incorrect support for the impeller shaft. This in turn causes accelerated wear of the mechanical flat face seal leading to coolant loss sufficient to generate a low coolant level warning message in the Instrument cluster display."
They also say "A number of changes to the water pumps have been made to improve product quality"
#111
08-13-2015, 07:59 AM
Veteran Member
Copied from another thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-118826/page4/
#42
05-30-2014, 07:12 PM
u102768
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This is the text from one of the Jaguar technical bulletins on the 5.0L water pumps:
Cause: Coolant ingress into the bearing housing leads to corrosion of the bearing and incorrect support for the impeller shaft. This in turn causes accelerated wear of the mechanical flat face seal leading to coolant loss sufficient to generate a low coolant level warning message in the Instrument Pack display.
NOTE: The water pump can display some dry coolant residue on the pump body, and surrounding area, during normal operation. A small amount of coolant may temporarily weep through the pump seals or from the evaporation chamber. This does not affect the operation of the pump or the cooling system, and it does not damage the water pump. A small amount of dry coolant residue on the pump body, pulleys, belts, or around the front of the engine are not alone sufficient justification for changing a water pump.
Then there is SSM50177:
Issue: The Customer reports a low coolant message on the instrument pack display. A coolant leak is identified from the area around the coolant pump pulley. This affects 5.0L engines only on XJ, XF, XK.
Cause: Internal sealing failure.
Action: Revised water pumps are available to order through Unipart, part number C2D 20660.
u102768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bocatrip
It seems from a pervious post that the part number for this revised water pump has been updated twice.
Yup, I was just quoting the SSM from 2011. The latest number is coming up as C2Z21781.
#42
05-30-2014, 07:12 PM u102768
Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
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This is the text from one of the Jaguar technical bulletins on the 5.0L water pumps:
Cause: Coolant ingress into the bearing housing leads to corrosion of the bearing and incorrect support for the impeller shaft. This in turn causes accelerated wear of the mechanical flat face seal leading to coolant loss sufficient to generate a low coolant level warning message in the Instrument Pack display.
NOTE: The water pump can display some dry coolant residue on the pump body, and surrounding area, during normal operation. A small amount of coolant may temporarily weep through the pump seals or from the evaporation chamber. This does not affect the operation of the pump or the cooling system, and it does not damage the water pump. A small amount of dry coolant residue on the pump body, pulleys, belts, or around the front of the engine are not alone sufficient justification for changing a water pump.
Then there is SSM50177:
Issue: The Customer reports a low coolant message on the instrument pack display. A coolant leak is identified from the area around the coolant pump pulley. This affects 5.0L engines only on XJ, XF, XK.
Cause: Internal sealing failure.
Action: Revised water pumps are available to order through Unipart, part number C2D 20660.
u102768
Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 786
Thanks: 77
Thanked 257 Times in 182 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bocatrip
It seems from a pervious post that the part number for this revised water pump has been updated twice.
Yup, I was just quoting the SSM from 2011. The latest number is coming up as C2Z21781.
Thanks for the autopsy report.....
#114
08-13-2015, 11:53 AM
#115
08-22-2015, 09:59 AM
I've taken a look at the water pump and disassembled it as much as I could without using a hydraulic press which I don't have. The pulley has a very slight wobble and it sounds like a bearing clip has rattled loose. Other than that, it turns nicely, is fairly quiet and very solid. In my opinion, it probably would have lasted a long time. I have a feeling the clip that came loose is the reason for the slight wobble. So the bearing might be fine.
The wobble and rattle are not ideal however, both are so minor that I don't believe the function or reliability of the pump were greatly affected.
I certainly wasn't on it's last legs as the mechanic and manager led me to believe. I'm going to be talking to the dealership about this.
I would like to try to refurbish the pump if anyone can walk me through getting the bearing out of the housing.
I've attached pictures and a video.
The wobble and rattle are not ideal however, both are so minor that I don't believe the function or reliability of the pump were greatly affected.
I certainly wasn't on it's last legs as the mechanic and manager led me to believe. I'm going to be talking to the dealership about this.
I would like to try to refurbish the pump if anyone can walk me through getting the bearing out of the housing.
I've attached pictures and a video.
#116
10-06-2015, 04:30 PM
Veteran Member
Moderate coolant smell once again as I got home in my '10 XKR. Still, no change in the coolant reservoir levels. Must be a very minor leak. Wonder if I take it to the dealer, (have extended warranty) would they consider replacing the pump just on the "coolant smell" issue? Anyone with luck over similar issues?
Only 7600 miles on the car.
Only 7600 miles on the car.
#117
10-12-2015, 02:49 PM
Water tube behind water pump
I have just repalced the water pump on my 2010 XKR and found the plastic tube behind the water pump a real poor design
I got it to seal more by luck than anything else. At first, I did not realise that the tube is actually smaller than the gap between the water pump and metal pipe in the middle of the 'V'
What is the correct procedure to get the plastic pipe to seal. ?
I got it to seal more by luck than anything else. At first, I did not realise that the tube is actually smaller than the gap between the water pump and metal pipe in the middle of the 'V'
What is the correct procedure to get the plastic pipe to seal. ?
#118
10-12-2015, 04:05 PM
Veteran Member
Crazy how the water pump issue has plagued the XK for so many years. It's a shame that even going out for a long weekend drive can end up in engine disaster because of poor design, lack of even minimum effective warning lights, and no incentive from Jaguar to correct a car they knew would soon be out of production.
#119
10-12-2015, 06:00 PM
Veteran Member
I have just repalced the water pump on my 2010 XKR and found the plastic tube behind the water pump a real poor design
I got it to seal more by luck than anything else. At first, I did not realise that the tube is actually smaller than the gap between the water pump and metal pipe in the middle of the 'V'
What is the correct procedure to get the plastic pipe to seal. ?
I got it to seal more by luck than anything else. At first, I did not realise that the tube is actually smaller than the gap between the water pump and metal pipe in the middle of the 'V'
What is the correct procedure to get the plastic pipe to seal. ?
Sorry, that's not a lot of help to you, though...
#120
10-13-2015, 12:34 AM
As far as I've seen, no-one else has done the pump themselves. Most of the affected cars have been under one warranty or another, so the work has been done by dealers. I guess we're now at the age where that's no longer true, so knowing that it's a pain as a DIY job is valuable info.
Sorry, that's not a lot of help to you, though...
Sorry, that's not a lot of help to you, though...
The two black plastic air intakes and throttle body air intake has to come off. You have to take the belt off by using a 3/4 " bar in the square hole in the tensioner, the tensioner has to come off to get at one of the water pump bolts , you can then remove the four torx bolts holding on the pump. ( There is a little plastic tube that just pushes into the water pump that needs pulling out while holding in the base it attached to on the pump and also remove the main rubber hose)
When you pull the pump away from the block, the black plastic tube comes with it.
It's not until trying to fit it back on and not being able to see the tube because of the supercharger do you realise what a poor design it is
It would be nice to know for further reference how the dealers fit this tube.