I recently got a promotional piece from my dealer that has the following sentence in it: "Ceramic brake pads are not suitable for supercharged vehicles". Can any members of the forum shed light on this statement?

By the way the piece was published JLR's promotional agency located in West Chicago, IL. My dealer is located in Southern California so I believe that the statement in quotes above comes directly from Jaguar.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

There are many "pros" to using ceramic pads, but in severe use, high load, or racing, where ceramic brakes score less than subpar, semi-metallic pads are the better choice.

 

Odd because the 5.0 F-Type Supercharged come with optional carbon ceramic brakes. I've read review from folks on various forums that they don't have the stopping power of organic. This is one of many articles that dispute that however.
Brake Tech Information - Why Ceramic Brake Pads?

I had them on my Super V8 and noticed no change in performance personally.

Let's get the debate started

 

Brake Tech Information - Brakes 101

"All brake pads contain some organic (living) materials (like the petro-chemical resins that bind the friction materials together). As these organic materials "overheat," they revert to gases that may cause the brake pads to lose some of their contact with the rotor, essentially "hydroplaning" away from the rotor on a film of gases."

While there are advantages to using ceramic compounds, which include copper, semi-metallic which are generally steel and wool, and perform over a broader range of temps. And this is where ceramics can fall short, where semi-metallic handles heat better, cold driving performance is more uniform with semi-metallic, and at the track, consistently is the choice for the reasons stated above.

 

Most fail to research and discover that ceramics are at best low end, run of the mill pads.... Look at any manufacturer , Hawk, EBC, Willwood, Brembo, Porterfield.... and all you will find is they tout low dust... But looking at their full lineup of what they offer, there are anywhere from 5 to 15 compounds that are far superior.
Ceramics are low dust, low performance, every day run of the mill compounds. Your XKR is not an every day run of the mill car.

2cents
Vince

 

Sorry guys, I approached this poorly. I didn't mean to debate ceramic vs. organic though I see how my reply steered the conversation.

My request for debate was intended to address Ralph's question as to why Jaguar sent a flyer indicating Ceramics aren't suitable for SC cars yet they offer them on the F-Type SC.

I don't use brakes under severe conditions myself, hence my comment "no change in performance personally"

Sorry if I steered it off course Ralph, all.

 

CleverName ,

The write up or " Brake Tech Information " that Box supplied are actually recommending HAWK brake pads as " (Hawk HP Plus) continue to work in an even higher range of temperatures and further reduce the possibility of brake fade. "

Brembo pads are also fitted standard on Porsche , Ferrari , Nissan GTR , and many other top end performance cars .

I can't see why you would say "low performance, every day run of the mill compounds"

I use ceramic pads , mainly for low dust , but they certainly stop better than any original OEM brake compound I know of .

Cheers

 

centric publishes little graphs of the characteristics of each
of their brake pads.

for a given vehicle/rotor/caliper combination they almost
always rate ceramic as having the edge in dust and rotor
wear, *but* show their semi-metallics as being superior
in stopping power and fade resistance.

centric is large enough, that they really don't care which
you buy because they'll be able to fulfill the order.

now, one trick ponies are going to tell everyone that whatever
type they specialise in is the hot ticket. just a little bias there.

jaguar has the luxury of being able to specify whatever formulation
they think is best. it seems they like semi-metallic and the oem
jurid are very good. maybe not the subjective "best", but very
capable.

 

Ceramic pads are not the same as carbon ceramic brakes. Carbon ceramic is the rotor material (developed for f1) which is very light weight and have a huge weight advantage over iron rotors. The cost of the rotors is very high, and can add $10,000 when optioned on to a car. See this article

 

If you go to Hawk's website, you'll find numerous mixtures for various purposes and temp ranges. When it comes to pads, certainly one pad doesn't fit all needs. For me, since my XJ never hits the track, is driven for it's intended purposes as a Saloon, I do use ceramics.

As a sidebar, both ATE Teves (and my system is Teves MK25) as well as Pagid (one of the larger providers in EU) neither have ceramics as the designed pad for my vehicle, and offer semi-metallic as the proper selection. Just sayin'

 

It looks like this conversation is going the same way as type/brand of oil , oil filters , tires , brake fluid and so on. There is no ideal brake material so we all need to look at our needs. If you want to just go cruising and don't want a lot of dust then go for those type of pads. On the other hand if you are a track guy then go for that type. They all will stop your car and will not endanger your life. The good part of these posts it to get a viewpoint of different brands and how they perform for their usage. So keep the reviews coming and make your selection based on your needs. Being a cruiser I'm a low dust type .

 

The difference between the oil argument and ceramic pads is not at all alike.
Ceramic pads are ceramic pads, and no amount of wishful thinking or seat of the pants judgement will move their optimal temperature range, or low friction levels any further up the charts. Do not mistake ceramic pad, with other compounds that contain ceramic.

My only attempt here is to get people to understand that Ceramics are NOT the end-all perfect pad with all the performance capabilities of an Indy race car, and no dust to boot!
They have a purpose, and many of you like casual driving and not spending time cleaning your car, but you trade performance for that low dust option.

What needed to be pointed out is than many of you are pushing ceramics on owners that come here for assistance, with absolutely no knowledge of how brake systems or pad compounds work! That blind guidance can be misleading and maybe doing injustice to those that turn to us with these questions. If low dust is their ONLY concern, I cringe, and then bow to ceramics as a possible choice.

However, I operate my 4000lb XKR at ludicrous speed more often than I care to admit, and at no time would I consider ceramics as my pad of choice. They reside at the low(est) end of the performance charts, and I demand far too much of my brakes to even put "dust" in the buying equation.

If you drive an XKR, I suggest you keep that in mind, because most owners don't buy one just for the extra letter in the name or to use her only as a boulevard cruiser.

- I'm done here, carry on...
Vince

 

I think most of the posters are saying that aside from dust, the OEM
style semi-metallic are better when stopping is the sole consideration.

The link posted by CleverName is very interesting, as it comes from
EBC itself:

Ceramic Brake Pads

The gist is that ceramic pads are in fact non-asbestos organic.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Remember when semi-metallics were the hot upgrade to organics?

It seems that remains true, and while ceramics have their place,
enhancing actual braking performance is not that place.

 

I'm OK with this so for anyone looking on this site to see what others are using it would be fair to let them know that all reputable brand brake pads whether they be ceramic or metallic are capable of stopping an XKR when in normal use. If you want to race or take risks then go with pads suited for that purpose. Now for the R letter I got it because I never had a 510HP car before. Maybe just an ego thing. Enjoy the ride.

 

To answer your original post, forced induction has no effect on braking properties. JLR doesn't make ceramic pads for XK/R's so no profit can be gleaned from their use therefore they do not recommend them.

I don't race my car. It's not a race car, it's a tank. Albeit a nice tank. I used to road race motorcycles and yes, filthy turn your wheels black pads work better. For street use I find the ceramics just fine. No, they don't have that initial hard bite. No, they don't work as good on the track. Yes, they take a little more pressure to get the same effect. Yes, they can gas out during hard braking(all pads do that). Yes, I have slotted rotors to negate that. OMG and my car is supercharged! I've never had any trouble braking from....speed. But I don't drive my car like I'm on pole at LeMans either. I don't late brake from 100mph and pitch it in to beat that Prius for a parking spot at Starbucks. But if I needed that latte I could do it once or twice before the brakes would fade. If you need the maximum capability of the brakes then yes, you need dirty pads. Paint your wheels black while your at it and save the headache.

I HATED the black dust on my wheels 5 minutes after I washed my car from gentle braking at low speed. They were worse than my Wilwood racing pads on my other car. Well worth the trade off for me. I take pride in my clean cars and somehow I haven't rear ended anyone yet. I find applying the brake stops the vehicle.

Nice thing is they're cheap. Like $40 cheap. It's not permanent. If you don't like them you can swap them, right? People act like your permanently hacking your car up with a chainsaw ferchrissakes.

Try 'em.

 

I don't know about this dust thing.

Shiny cars are nice, but cars that look like they've been
driven hard have that edge to them.

Mine has bugs mashed on the windshield, no centre caps,
and road film almost all the time. Still a great looking car.

 

Fly c2c - Thanks for the input. What pads do you use on your XKR? Thanks.

 

"CENTRIC 10512400 Posi-Quiet Ceramic w/Shims and Hardware"

Rock auto. $42.

2007 JAGUAR XKR 4.2L V8 Supercharged Brake Pad | RockAuto

 

If I were to recommend a pad replacement, outside of the OE's is Akebano.

 

They don't make front pads for XKR's....