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[QUOTE = Cee Jay; 2356047] Probablemente se necesite una sierra. Seriamente. La mayoría de los botes son de plástico encolado. Puede cortarlo, hacer lo que sea necesario y volver a pegarlo con el adhesivo correcto. [/ CITA]I did not mean to open the container, I meant to take it out of its housing so that I could put it on the workbench and see what happens. Although I suppose that once taken out of the car it would not be bad to be able to open it to see the mystery inside
It will probably take a saw. Seriously. Most canisters are glued plastic. You can cut it apart, do whatever needs to be done, and reglue it with the correct adhesive.
Do you know if to remove it it is necessary to lower the gas tank?
It will probably take a saw. Seriously. Most canisters are glued plastic. You can cut it apart, do whatever needs to be done, and reglue it with the correct adhesive.
hahaha. You've given me a great idea .... I'm thinking of cutting the plastic with a saw and completely emptying all the carbon from the container .... Surely the gas supply problems would end. The problem is that I don't know how to disassemble the container and I don't want to break anything by pulling it.
if you can get it out on the bench, and you really want to cut this thing open, remember that it's a non-serviceable enclosed container that is designed for fuel vapor, and any such unit could also have liquid fuel in it. this will be mixed up with probably some kind of foam suspension, and lots of particulate from road use, and the presumably powdered carbon medium.
i'm sure it's hard plastic at least, so to cut it properly you're going to have to use something that risks a bit of an explosion. you would be wise to flood it with water, and cut it with a wet saw.
if you can get it out on the bench, and you really want to cut this thing open, remember that it's a non-serviceable enclosed container that is designed for fuel vapor, and any such unit could also have liquid fuel in it. this will be mixed up with probably some kind of foam suspension, and lots of particulate from road use, and the presumably powdered carbon medium.
i'm sure it's hard plastic at least, so to cut it properly you're going to have to use something that risks a bit of an explosion. you would be wise to flood it with water, and cut it with a wet saw.
How do you remove the carbon container from the car?
Once I have been able to remove it from the car I will cut it to look inside, but what I really need to know is how it can be removed from the car
Here is the view of my 2007 XK 4.2 with the rear exhaust removed:
Still not possible to see the canister.
If you drop the rear of the propshaft (after removing the centre heatshield, you possibly could get to the canister.
Graham
If I put air under pressure through the tank filling mouth, the air would have to come out through the aeration tube that connects to the filling tube because according to the drawing the tank gas outlet tube enters the container and from the other side the container comes out the aeration tube that goes to the filling mouth. If this is not fulfilled, there is something that is covered and must be uncovered.
I'm right?
If I put air under pressure through the tank filling mouth, the air would have to come out through the aeration tube that connects to the filling tube because according to the drawing the tank gas outlet tube enters the container and from the other side the container comes out the aeration tube that goes to the filling mouth. If this is not fulfilled, there is something that is covered and must be uncovered.
I'm right?
That sounds logical.
The air would exit the tank through the lower end of the vent (arrowed in BLUE in the diagram)
The top end of the vent tube is connected to the side of the filler tube at the top (arrowed in RED in the diagram).
The air then vents to atmosphere from the gap around the filler tube inlet (arrowed in BLUE in the photo):
The air would exit the tank through the lower end of the vent (arrowed in BLUE in the diagram)
The top end of the vent tube is connected to the side of the filler tube at the top (arrowed in RED in the diagram).
The air then vents to atmosphere from the gap around the filler tube inlet (arrowed in BLUE in the photo):
Graham
I just put air in through the filler neck and it actually comes out through the aeration tube at the top that you have indicated with the red arrow.
How is it possible that everything indicates that it is unblocked and when I go to refuel the pump does not stop jumping?
Now I see no reason to disassemble anything as everything seems fine, but refueling is still hell.
Will I have to change something or just change cars?
As I wrote in post #8, I have found both French and Spanish service station fuel pumps have a faster delivery rate than ours in the UK. I think your problem may be caused by the automatic safety cut-off in the service station pumps and not a fault with the vehicle. If the fuel delivery rate is sufficiently fast to back up in the vehicle filler tube up to the pump nozzle, the pump is designed to cut-off.
You could try either not fully pulling the service station pump trigger to reduce the flow. Some earlier Jaguar models had a similar issue and another technique was to rotate the trigger handle to horizontal instead of the usual vertical.
As I wrote in post #8, I have found both French and Spanish service station fuel pumps have a faster delivery rate than ours in the UK. I think your problem may be caused by the automatic safety cut-off in the service station pumps and not a fault with the vehicle. If the fuel delivery rate is sufficiently fast to back up in the vehicle filler tube up to the pump nozzle, the pump is designed to cut-off.
You could try either not fully pulling the service station pump trigger to reduce the flow. Some earlier Jaguar models had a similar issue and another technique was to rotate the trigger handle to horizontal instead of the usual vertical.
Graham
Surely the French and Spanish pumps give a higher flow than those of England, but the reality is that it only happens to me with this car, the rest I can fill as normal and the pump shoots when the tank is practically full.
The last day that I refuel the jaguar I had to remove the hose in its entirety and I was filling with a very small flow, to get an idea .... with the timer in hand it took 9 minutes to refuel 32.5 liters.
This is not normal for me ..... I ended up with a sore hand from holding the handle at reduced flow.
The supply pumps here in Spain have 2 speeds that can be blocked .... the slow and the fast .... because with this car I can't even get close to the slow flow, I have to hold the pump at a super small flow.
I have observed that the other cars that I have have the filling tube twice the diameter ... maybe the problem is there ...... I don't know what to think
As I wrote in post #8, I have found both French and Spanish service station fuel pumps have a faster delivery rate than ours in the UK. I think your problem may be caused by the automatic safety cut-off in the service station pumps and not a fault with the vehicle. If the fuel delivery rate is sufficiently fast to back up in the vehicle filler tube up to the pump nozzle, the pump is designed to cut-off.
You could try either not fully pulling the service station pump trigger to reduce the flow. Some earlier Jaguar models had a similar issue and another technique was to rotate the trigger handle to horizontal instead of the usual vertical.
Graham
Graham. Do you remember when you were in Spain with your xk if this happened to you when refueling?
Graham. Do you remember when you were in Spain with your xk if this happened to you when refueling?
YES - Spain's Repsol pumps are much faster flow rate than ours in England. It's definitely happened a few times with this and my last XK but not sufficient to be annoying.
What I do notice in Spain is the escape of vapour under pressure when I remove the filler cap to refuel. This never happens in England and I thought it must be due to the very much higher temperatures on the Mediterranean coast.
I'm in the US and I have the same problem. It's not the filling station, it's my car. I have to dribble the fuel out on it's absolute lowest setting, and the pump stops after 1/10 of a gallon is dispensed. This happened last year and then it stopped on it's own and started working normally until recently. Now it's clogged again. I've complained about this in my own thread but I still haven't had a chance to do any diagnosis. When I do, I'll post here if I find anything. I hope you find something!
I'm in the US and I have the same problem. It's not the filling station, it's my car. I have to dribble the fuel out on it's absolute lowest setting, and the pump stops after 1/10 of a gallon is dispensed. This happened last year and then it stopped on it's own and started working normally until recently. Now it's clogged again. I've complained about this in my own thread but I still haven't had a chance to do any diagnosis. When I do, I'll post here if I find anything. I hope you find something!
I am considering removing the fuel filler tube to cut it from the filler neck and weld a tube with a greater diameter than the original because I believe that all other elements are more than revised and totally correct.
As you say, you have been for a while that has worked well for you and now it fails you again. This is due to the fact that some vent is covered and uncovered.
I qualify that as one more design problem of this beautiful car in which they have put the carbon canister, very exposed to getting wet with gasoline when refueling. That has also happened to me but I have never been able to refuel in one go with agility, so I suppose that if I increase the diameter of the filling tube I will not completely solve the problem but I will improve the refueling times.
I will write the results once the modification is finished.
Another drastic solution to the problem would be to connect the tube that goes from the gas tank to the carbon canister with the tube that goes from the carbon canister to the filler neck, in this way the gasoline tank would always have a gas outlet without going through the happy charcoal pot when refueling. The problem I have is that I cannot reach the tube that goes from the gas tank to the carbon canister since to get to it you have to disassemble half a car
OK some feedback here if they aren't on the PDF graham provided.
If fuel enters the canister, it's likely ruined.
From Google: Common Symptoms Of A Bad Evap Canister
Poor Gas Mileage. A low gas mileage indicates that your vehicle is not operating at optimum efficiency. ...
Poor Engine Performance. ...
Difficulty in Starting Up the Engine. ...
Engine Check Light Turns ON. ...
Rough Idling. ...
Gas Odor. ...
Failed Emission Test. ...
Gas Tank will get difficult to fill up.
Do you have any of the other symptoms? Throwing any codes?
What kind of welding are you talking about? Plastic weld?
The car works perfectly.
It does not throw any error code.
The start is always perfect.
It does not smell of gasoline.
Perfect acceleration.
Perfect gas mileage.
The only problem is refueling.
The welding that I am going to do will logically be continuous wire since you have to weld the filling mouth, which is made of metal, with the tube with the largest diameter, which is also made of metal. Logically I will disassemble the filler tube to make all the modification outside the car and later reinstall it.
I do not understand the question if the welding will be made of plastic, it cannot be since the tube is made of metal.
Nor do I understand that if gasoline consumption is low, the evaporation system is bad.
Can you explain it to me?
.....If fuel enters the canister, it's likely ruined. .....
I think you could have hit on the reason for this issue. The canister is intended to treat VAPOUR and not LIQUID. The warnings about over filling are not only to avoid spillage.
The car works perfectly.
I do not understand the question if the welding will be made of plastic, it cannot be since the tube is made of metal.
Nor do I understand that if gasoline consumption is low, the evaporation system is bad.
Can you explain it to me?
Apologies, I didn't know if the part was plastic or metal. You will need to drop the tank to remove the tube, yes? You certainly can't weld around a gasoline tank.
Regardless of whether or not you understand the canisters impact on fuel efficiency, it is part of the emissions system and does improve fuel efficiency when working properly, or better stated, fuel consumption worsens when the canister is not functioning properly. The fuel vapors your car usually uses for combustion will end up vented through the EVAP canister instead. This means your car will not use fuel efficiently, and instead wastes gasoline.
Bottom line is you say you have no issues other than your issue at fill up.
You are looking for a problem that doesn't exist IMO, or if the canister is bad, the solution is one you don't want to undertake. I wouldn't either my friend. Focus on doing the job as directed in the workshop manual, not a workaround.
I assume you don't have to pass any emissions standard. If you do, you could simply take it to an inspection site and test it.
No codes, no gas odor, no bad mileage, no misfires, no poor idle. My money is on it's a gas pump issue.
Did you try compressed air?
Did you try disconnecting the purge valve in the engine bay? Purge valves are often a problem. If you disconnect the hose leading into the purge valve, that should eliminate back pressure I think (don't know for certain) but then at fill up, fumes would vent to the air I think. If that's the case the purge valve maybe the issue. If no vapor s getting to the valve, your problem is prolly the canister.
02-20-2021, 02:06 AM
