Bruce, I'm always skeptical and just trusted a friend who owns a tuning company and every last piece I purchased from him has been trash.

I'm going with Eurocharge next week with before and after dyno results including a new Pulley. I also have software that I can record boost timing etc while I'm driving the car. SO after the tune next week I'm going straight to the track and see what the 1/4 says, the track doesn't lie. I'll record the data of the runs and share it via youtube. If the tune doesn't work I get my money back, thats simple enough.

I know you have mentioned what you want to see in the Dyno, but can you list it out for us again. I want to make sure ALL bases are covered this time.

 

Bruce,

What do you see in Matt's dyno results that make you skeptical as to his results?

 

It's been a while since I looked at them but I recall thinking they looked quite good...see post 74.

 

You may already know most of this, but I'll be as thorough as possible for the benefit of others who may be new to this. The objective is to have dyno results measured independently to rule out the possiblity of accidental or intentional manipulation of the dyno's calibration or testing methods that could skew results. Choose a dyno shop that you like, tell them you're coming back after the tune and want to test it consistently so the results are comparable. You want to see the improvement in power over the widest part of the powerband possible between the factory and flash tunes.

I like Dynojet machines as results from them tend to be somewhat comparable generally from one shop to another, but any machine will show what you need even if it's not particularly comparable with others.

Make sure their air/fuel sensor is working and have its measurements plotted with torque and horsepower against engine rpm and not tire speed. If they have one that can be attached to an exhaust bung on your car that will provide more accurate measurements than the ones inserted into the tail pipe. You may not have an available bung, so tail pipe sniffer may be the only choice.

Have the graph produced with no correction factor preferably, or "STD Correction", and not SAE. If he can give you the results on a disc then you can print your own graphs and see all the unadjusted measurements. Correction factors are to change the results to compensate for temperature, humidity, altitude, etc and standardize them for sea level, etc. Note the weather and try to choose a similar day to do your "after tune " dyno.

Have him print the graph with no "Smoothing". Smoothing will make a rough tune, and jagged graph look smooth, thereby masking the rough tune. When looking at graphs you may see "Smoothing 5" which hides the details...Smoothing 0 is what you want.

Keeping the tranny in 3rd or 4th gear from low rpm to high under full throttle will be impossible as the tranny will try to downshift as soon as he starts the run and gives it full throttle. He may be able to do it in some way that it doesn't "kick down" a gear from maybe 3000 rpm instead of maybe 2500 where it does, and that'll be the best you can do. Record his technique so he can do the same for the "after tune" runs. Maybe someone else who has dyno'd can offer a suggestion that works, and the dyno operator might have an idea as well because this must be a common problem with auto tranny cars.

That's it for the dyno, but you should also get familiar with your scanning device and start logging data prior to the tune. Only log one or two info channels at a time as the more different items you try to log the lower the resolution. Your boost for instance may appear steady under low resolution, and possibly miss fluctuations caused by the ECU or TCU. Same idea as smoothing...don't want it. Throttle opening % is important, as is monitoring ignition advance and some other parameters. Maybe AVOS will chime in (or contact him) as he knows this stuff inside and out, and helped BigCat09 and I evaluate his tune and results.

Install the tune with Jerry and his dyno, the same as Matt did I'm assuming, and learn what you can. I'd expect to see the AFR typically very lean at low load and rpm for economy and emissions, and then richen up under full throttle to 11.5-13.0:1 AFR before the rpm where torque starts to peak/plateau (and greatest tendency for pre-ignition is). Older engine management needed closer to 11.5:1 AFR to ward off pre-ignition, but even my '94 Supra is happy running 13.0:1 on the race track at 17 psi of boost without pre-ignition. Leaner AFR makes more power than rich, and provides better throttle response.

Factory ignition mapping may not have been adjusted in your tune. The tuner may have been reluctant to advance timing for fear of causing pre-ignition under some extreme operating conditions, or under mis-use by an owner (ie filling up with 87 octane gas). Raising boost and leaning AFR also bring you closer to that edge, while increased octane moves you away from it. The modern engine has a knock sensor that "listens" for early signs of pre-ignition and the ECU has a "knock response" function that will jump in and retard timing slightly to prevent it, or go into "limp mode" to avoid catastrophic damage. Monitoring your ignition advance with the scanner will tell you if this is happening, and should be seen during times when the engine doesn't feel as strong, perhaps at the end of the 1/4 mile pass or hard road course use on a hot day.

Return to the first dyno shop and run the car again under the same and controlled conditions. Get all results on your disc for future use, and get a couple of printed graphs with the before and after runs plotted on the same graph for easy comparison.

Hopefully others will add anything they feel I've missed.

Bruce

 

max, is this with the RSC tune?

 

Sorry for the delayed response I was beyond frustrated yesterday as its exhausting to constantly go through BS with shops that never get anything right or break one thing while fixing another. On top of the tune someone lost my tow plug in transport and replaced it with Ultimate black and put a huge gash in my door sill that they painted over expecting I would never notice. Considering I notice tiny scratches from a bad wash this wasn't a good idea on their part. To add on to the ADV nightmare, and now tune nightmare I’ve had enough. It’s not just the wasted money, the wasted time and disappointment in people you think you can trust. I love this car but why is it so hard to find honest competent people to provide a service.

I have to thank everyone on this forum for all the information and help you have given me since I purchased this car. It’s impossible to find GOOD solid advice on Jaguars I’ve had plenty of experience on other cars I've owned but researched them for months if not years before making a purchase. This is the first time I purchased a car I knew almost nothing about based on a few reviews, known performance and just the sheer beauty and exclusivity if the car at this price point. My nature I'm a tinkerer so here we are And Bruce you may be the pessimist of the "tune" but that’s great! We need that knowledgeable member that keeps the facts straight and I thank you for ALL your input. AXR6, you do the same for suspension and handling! Now my car handles like I always wanted although some sway bars (working on this) would be great to perfectly tune it. I may have a race shop possibly making urethane bushings but anyway back to the tune at hand.

So we have a clean slate to prove or disprove the validity of a tune and I'm willing to use my car, and time to get it right once and for all. No more I think I have 600HP, I want to see it and be able to prove it on the dyno and track again and again.

Tomorrow I have an appointment with RageTek in Davie FL that is installing the Eurochrage tune. I told them I want to do a baseline before the applying a tune next Friday, so I will have this done tomorrow at 2PM. The weather here is fairly stable this time of year 85 and partly cloudy every day. So next Friday should be the same.

• I'll be sure to note the temp and humidity at the time of the pulls.
• Make sure all ODBII data is captured during the pull. What tool do you suggest so that I can order it now, as I only have the KIWI2 Wi-Fi feeding my iPad?
• Note AFR numbers at the tail pipe
• Have smoothing and all correction turned off of the Dyno results
• AVOS contacted me last night so I will reach out to him this morning to see what else I need to do.

Anyone feel free to add any information they see fit as I plan on sending RageTek a list of Dyno requirements before I show up tomorrow.

 

Yes it was and I had a long conversation with him last night. His tuner is flying in at the end of the month and wants to look at my car, but I don't feel confident that his tuner knows Jags very well.

The other issue I have is a R8 owner also had the same problem with his tune. Basically it loaded and did absolutely nothing.

 

What you are doing is going to provide all of us some very valuable information on whether it is possible to achieve a proper tune on these cars. Anxiously awaiting your results!

 

MaximA - You 100% cannot get "all ODBII data is captured during the pull" because only a few items can be read per second. You need to get the fewest that are good enough or else you'll get many but only every 4 or 10 seconds - utterly useless in most cases.

If your car has CAN (for PCM) and you get the right tool then you can get more than a few per second. Even so, keep the number of different items down to the minimum.

 

Its the least I can do to help but this issue to bed. My appointment for the baseline is at 2PM tomorrow so I'll be leaving the office at noon. This gives us a week to look over the stock results and see what else we need to see before the final tune next Friday.

Feel free to PM me for my email if you need to send me any last minute requests.

 

That makes sense, can anyone chime in here as to a tool to use? I need to get it overnighted ASAP unless someone in the soflo area has one.

 

Modding a car definitely isn't a walk in the park, and minimal after-market support for Jags makes it even harder, but damage like that to the car is unexpected and unacceptable.
Glad you've been in touch with AVOS. He's very knowledgeable about the issues at hand, and is the best one to guide you now with ECU data collection and analysis. Perhaps some data collection should be done on the street where you'd have an opportunity to record as many data items as you wish, and then record them all later for comparison. Trying to get it all while on the dyno won't be possible, or perhaps even desirable. The tuner may only be interested in monitoring and adjusting air/fuel ratio on the dyno, where you'll be interested in real world operation on the street and track.

I was suggesting a different dyno shop to provide baseline and final meaurements than the one doing the tune to rule out any possibility of tampering with dyno calibration and results. It's unfortunate, and perhaps should be expected, but misrepresenting results is more the norm than the exception.

Good luck with your tuning! I really hope you'll be pleased with the final results, and that you'll be able to document the results in a way that will allow other members to make an informed decision.

Bruce

 

I'll start recording data on the way home today and wherever I go over the next week. let me see if I can find another shop with a Dynojet for a before and after test. I definitely agree that the shop can tune the dyno to show better results.

I spoke with Jerry this morning and he said he was going to do a custom tune based off this stock tune since the car will be on the dyno. I'm sure AFR, timing and knock is what he will be looking for..

When my Corvette's Motec ECM was programmed we started on the Dyno then drove around with the computer connected and made real world adjustments. We did this over a few days in different weather conditions. That car was a beast 800HP/820ftlbs from a stroked 427 with a Vortech R trim Supercharger making 16LBS of boost. With a solid roller cam it pulled like a train all the way to 7200RPM. If I had the 7K tool to do this with the XKR I would do this as well.

 

I would be furious, Max. Do you know what shop caused this damage? This is why I hate taking my cars to shops for any kind of work. People today have no respect...I'm not going to go on about this. Man, I feel your pain! I can't believe they even tried to hide the damage, WTF.


You're our warrior, Max! We all stand behind you, my good friend. Everyone here, I'm sure feels your pain and appreciates your tenacity.

 

The tow plug had to come from the dealership but I'm sure the tow truck driver lost it. The fact that the dealer replaced it with Ultimate black irritates me. I noticed it as soon as I got home. So now had to go back to the dealer and and they took it out to repaint it so I've been driving around with a hole in my bumper all week. I think the damage to the door sill happened at the paint shop the dealer uses. My car went there to have the front spoiler installed and what should have taken two days all of a sudden took five. Thats pretty obvious... shops are just so careless these days.

So I tried to log some data and connected my kiwi to my ipad on the way home last night and recorded the data. I had a few blasts to 100 and the maximum boost it recorded was 9.4LBS before I had to slow down as I was out of room. If anyone wants to see the file just let me know and I'll email it to you. You can use the Scan XL to view the file Downloads - Palmer Performance Engineering, Inc.

I have a longer drive to the Dyno shop this afternoon and if I have time I'll go to test and tune at Palm Beach raceway this evening to log some data down the 1/4 mile. That should reveal the true maximum boost as the car is well into 5th by the end of the strip.

 

I am a bit confused by this. Are you saying you are in 5th gear when you cross the 1/4 mile line?

4th gear should be good to around 138 mph....

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...XKR-S_data.pdf

 

Matt,

I let the ar shift for itself and it felt like the beginning of 4th not5th(typo) with the tranny doing the shifting in sport. This time I'm doing the shifting as I have been driving with the paddles everyday for the past three weeks and feel more comfortable with the shift points.

 

Sounds great. Best of luck and thanks for doing all of this. I am sure MANY people including myself appreciate it.

 

Here is the baseline Dyno with at 85 degrees and 52% humidity. The absolute max boost seen as 9.4 LBS but it as quickly brought down to 9.0. I will post pics of the OBDII data and I'm more than happy to send the files of the three dyno pulls to anyone interested.

 

Other than tunes, you'll have to refresh my memory, have you done any other performance mods such as pulley, exhaust or intake?

EDIT: Never mind, just re-read the thread and got my answers…duh!