Originally Posted by Brutal

Exactly, this is a big issue to me as most shops will not warranty a part a customer provides for this exact kind of reason. Mike @Eurotoys claims installer fault, yeah for not catching their mistake. He told me you slip the pulley on by hand into the seal and this is his way out. Unfortunatly I never do this and for the largest reason is that pulley is heavy as most are. You slide that pulley into the seal and the hub's full weight is pressing against the seal. If your reusing a seal that didnt leak before it may now and if new, same thing. You take a big risk doing this on cone sleeved balancers as they **** against the seal. I prefer to slide them on assembled with bolt, cone and lube and draw the pulley EVENLY back into place and then torque. AND NEVER HAD ISSUE NOR SEAL LEAKAGE! So I didnt feel any real resistance when it pushed the seal back and while I watched it, it didnt move back until I could no longer see it. Shame on me.
But this whole issue brings up a very great point with companies and people. EVERYONE makes mistakes, but its how they respond and how they handle thyem that makes all the differance. I have a freind(we became friends after dealing with him on a professional level and watching how he treats his customers. My first dealeing with him years ago was a customer bought a suspension lift kit from him and the installed spring were for a heavier 4x4 not for his 2wd. After I installed I noticed it rode terrible and called Greg. He checked the part number on the springs and confirmed that yes he did supply the wrong springs in the coil overs. He immediatly apologized, offered to send another set overnight and pay for my labor. I told him to send regular UPS as I wouldnt be able to get back to truck for a week. And said thanks for the labor reimbusement but mistakes happen and I apprieciated his response so I would reinstall for free. Handled very professionally and all of us were happy with the outcome. When I shared this online I found out that this was not uncommon for this kind of service.Othesr expressed times when his vendors didnt get him the parts and he pulled parts off his personal race truck and sent then parts to make a race. THAT kind of service is why he went from a business started in his garage after work in the late 90's to a full time business with new shop and warehouse and employees. You cant BUY that kind of press and why I continue to buy from him and send others his way. So thanks again Greg@PRG products...
Now back to Mike@Erotoys, I feel the least you could have offered was to buy valves and head gasket. But that OK, I referred this customer to you, shame on me and it will NEVER EVER happen again. I will no longer discuss you again in a positive light here or the other forums I visit and am a member of. You may have got one over and made your money and kept it, but this will cost you in more lost sales and reputation that a good will gesture wether you think in your mind was warranted or not. Good luck

Originally Posted by Eurotoys

Bill,

Did you forget to tell everyone that you actually damaged the engine twice? Yes, the pulley was wrong (our problem), but you decided to draw the pulley in with the bolt the first time and then again this week? Our instructions do not say to draw the pulley into the seal with the bolt.

These lower pulleys on the 4.0L & 4.2L can be fully seated into the seal by hand, with almost no effort. You would have had to hold the pulley up there/install the cone washer & bolt and then start tightening in order for you to press the pulley on.

You said on the phone that you have done 4.0L cars in the past, but never the 4.2L. I can tell you they are almost exactly the same. They take the same crank bolt, the same seal and the same split ring.

This is no different than some place sending you a oil drain plug that is the wrong thread pitch. Instead of returning the part that does not fit, you would have forced the drain plug in/stripping the threads and then expect the parts supplier to pay for your time/materials on replacing the oil pan. Besides all of that, you did it twice!

Just own up to the fact that you messed it up, twice.

M

Originally Posted by R_Rated

I'm not an advertiser so I won't promote a side venture but the cars we see; we'd of done the same thing. I don't think he "screwed up twice." He wouldn't have "screwed up once" had he had the right part. Pulley's are typically not manufactured in house - if your supplier labelled it wrong then there should be some liability/accountability there. He did follow a different procedure than what you recommend and he re-did it in an attempt to take responsibility for the fact that he could have made a mistake himself.

It appears as if both sides have the same story but place blame on difference areas - just one party holding all of the risk and liability since the other is passing it off like a hot potato.

What is your warranty if you ACCIDENTALLY give someone the wrong tune? It raises a question of ethics and standing behind any of your products is all.

Originally Posted by Norri

Welcome to the forum Eurotoys, don't forget to post your intro in the new members section
I'm guessing Brutal (Bill) is not a new customer of yours, perhaps the best thing to do would be for one of you to pick up the phone and find a way to agree on your differences?
I don't see any good coming from a public slanging match and I don't see any future for this thread if that's how it goes.

Originally Posted by r_rated

i'm not an advertiser so i won't promote a side venture but the cars we see; we'd of done the same thing. I don't think he "screwed up twice." he wouldn't have "screwed up once" had he had the right part. Pulley's are typically not manufactured in house - if your supplier labelled it wrong then there should be some liability/accountability there. He did follow a different procedure than what you recommend and he re-did it in an attempt to take responsibility for the fact that he could have made a mistake himself.

It appears as if both sides have the same story but place blame on difference areas - just one party holding all of the risk and liability since the other is passing it off like a hot potato.

What is your warranty if you accidentally give someone the wrong tune? It raises a question of ethics and standing behind any of your products is all.

Originally Posted by Brutal

my point exactly, and yes i did screw it twice. The first time i thought i did something wrong and a job i have done many times over 15 years. My point to you is that havent had to do this type of work on the 4.2 anymore as is has proven to be a much better engine than the 4.0, and yes the same setup and structure. But tensioner issues and other faults have been addressed and fixed. I prefer as i have said to draw the pulley "evenly" on the crank as to not **** onto the seal. there is nothing wrong with doing this and I feel it prevents seal damage as yes there is no hub suuprt without the colar in the hub. And have done this for years without issue, but then have always had the correct part.. It didnt take any ordinary extra pressure and didnt feel forced at all. You know what i call experiance, something you get 10 seconds after you need it. Ive never had this issue for a simple job as ive always had the correct parts yes same on me for thinking i did something worng the first time and still assuming you sent the correct part. They looked the same till i measured them and then it became apart that the larger land rover puller hub was pushing the seal into the primary chain. To bad the front cover is not manufactured with a lip to bottom the seal against, then i would have felt resistance.
My point in all this is that yes you want to wash you hands of your mistake and the consquences. Had the correct part and he would have had his car and no issue with either of us. And i told him to buy the parts from you. A proper gesture i feel is send 8 exhaust and 8 intake and a head gasket.and new crank seal. I took care of what i percieved was not a part problem but a install problem even though ive done this many times without issue on more than jaguar engines. I eat 1 mistake how about you take care of yours to the point of doing the right thing, not what you feel youre legally obligated to. I did although as you know most shops will never cover or warranty a part they dont supply or any damage it may cost. I did the right thing and still have alot of work to do again ahead of me. As i told you on the phone i think there should be some shared responsibilty you said only to now send the correct pulley.
If you drive drunk and kill someone but didnt meen to, would it be okay to blame the dead person for not noticing your eractic driving and getting out of the way? Like i told you sorry i didnt notice the incorrect part was sent we wouldnt be having this conversation would we. You have my number. I wont say anything else. Youve at least read my thoughts which sometimes are hard to say and relate at a moments notice over the phone.
Bill

Originally Posted by eurotoys

i last talked with the customer yesterday and i am waiting to see what he finds out. I have not made my final decision, but seeing you starting a flame war on this forum and your "signature" at the bottom of your posts does not help your end. Ultimately, it is my customer that is most important here.