Unfortunately, a lot of those people who bought the "retro" cars in the 1990's and 2000's have died of old age by now, and they have to revise their strategy in order to compete for the dollars of the younger well-to-do buyer!

 

BMW Range Rovers are not as good as the Jag engine models, IMO. The BMW V8 is a throwaway engine. I have never seen an engine warm up so quick. I can see why they put a large water temp gauge in the RR!

The Jaguar is as beautiful as we say they are, no question. The fact is that Jaguar does not have the dealer network of the German brands and has a reputation engraved in stone for better or worse. Think about the least expensive Jaguar offering in in N. America, and it's still pretty darn expensive.

Attractive lease rates are a good way to get new buyers into Jaguar, along with "re-education" of what owning a Jaguar is like. They don't need the volume sales for the German marques and China will be a priority to balance their financials. Keep Jaguar a niche brand while keeping it profitable. Fine balancing act, but very doable.

 

If bmw's m60/m62 is a throwaway engine, then what foreign manufactures v8 from the late 90s/early 2000s wasn't?

 

Am I the only one who wishes the thread-crapper would sell his XK8, leave this thread, and rid us of his stupidity?

Was trying to bite my tongue, but oh well...

 

Wow, definitely not a "thread crapper" seeing as how I like the F-type as much as the rest you and I'm excited to see the coupe.

Why would you even post on a internet forum if your going to cry and ask anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion to leave. I personally like the discussion and if you actually read my posts you'll see that I even commended you for making very good points in post number #80.

I can generally back up everything I've posted. So its not just the blathering of a mad man. I digress. This will be my last post in this thread, but I will defend my m60/m62 comment:

No foreign V8 has as made the Wards top engines list more that the bmws from 97 to 03. When comparing an x308 to an e38, they both weigh about the same, both have 5 speed auto's. The e38 makes about 35 ft/lbs more torque and matches it in gas mileage, but it was clearly a better V8 because if you look at used cars you'll see several e38's with 200k+ and some with 300k on them however you'll be hard pressed to find an x308 that's done more that 150k. Don't tell me that Jag owners don't like to drive their cars.

 

There are ten X308's on the UK EBAY that have done over 150,000 miles and some of them even have the original engine...

 

I think the F-Type, like the XK/R, will compete well with the 911 and many other performance cars, regardless of price. The emotional appeal is stronger for some than performance stats and lap times. Jaguar isn't going after those who are only looking at stats and price...they've never been about that.

The F-Type will be a solid performer by any measure, and those also looking for a fresh and modern design convertible I'm sure will consider it carefully if the look of it grabs them. And if the look doesn't grab them then the performance stats and price won't matter a bit.

Before I even looked at or considered buying the XKR I had visited a Porsche dealer and looked over an extensive selection of new and used P-cars. While I respect the brand, I just could not get excited about any of them. I spent an afternoon at a Mercedes dealer doing the same, with the same result. I was in and out of the Audi dealership the quickest.

In fact, the only real emotional tugging was when I spent some quality time at a large new car dealer on vacation in Naples Florida selling Aston, Maserati, Ferrari, Bentley...and Jaguar. This dealer earned a second visit on a Sunday when they were closed, and I left hooked on all three Jaguar models without talking with a sales person, or sitting in a car.

I returned home to do extensive research, which included all aspects of performance as I planned to do the odd track lapping day, located my car on AutoTrader, negotiated with the Jag dealer over the phone, went to see it with my check book and did the deal after a 15 minute test drive.

I gave Porsche and the others a chance, but in the end they stood no chance. Price became more important once I decided what car I actually wanted to buy, and I felt I had negotiated the right price on my XKR. I believe the F-Type will be exactly the same for many who are attracted to it.

Bruce

 

I disagree with suggesting that anyone with any controversial input to leave this board. I personally welcome such views as potentially fresh or, simply different cross-currents. While I have posted my disagreement with some of those views here, still, it makes me think about my positions and gives me a chance to re-evaluate them.

After all, this forum is almost exceptional in the uniform praising of the beauty and capabilities of our Jaguars. At times, I feel like we just stand in a circle patting ourselves in the back for our wonderful choices. Nothing wrong with that but, let's not carried away...

Albert

 

I agree with Bruce on this one. The appeal of the F type is its emotional connection. The 5.0 L will still be very fast, although its times may not be as quick as some others such as a 911.
When I was looking for cars I narrowed it down to Nissan gtr (a lot of performance for $) and Porsche 997 turbo S (car I was planning on getting for a long time). Both cars are very fast (sub 3 sec 0-60), but after seeing and going for a quick test drive in the Xkr-s, I quickly changed my mind. There is something about the looks, sound, quality, and performance that made me pick this car over the others. Hopefully for jaguar, the F type will do the same.

 

Since we don't know the performance figures for the F-type yet, and my guess is that we'll see an "R" or high performance version within a year or two, there is just no way to know how it stacks up to the likes of 911s or Boxters/Caymans. I would think that Jaguar executives know that this car has to do well for Jaguar to start rebuilding a reputation that will result in its furthered existence. Having said that, I think that the F-type most resembles BMW's Z-8, which about a decade ago commanded prices that were higher than the F is now. The very limited production of the Z-8, along with its desirable retro styling, reasonably high performance, and perception of high quality has kept its resale prices quite high. Time will tell. As stated earlier, I am very surprised that cars haven't been made available to major car magazines for testing at this late date. This could be attributable to one of two reasons (in my opinion), either there are still "bugs" that are being frantically addressed or tweaks are being done to the performance parameters to make absolutely certain that when testing does eventually begin, the F-type will shine. Or a combination of the two. I hope they get it right.

 

I felt the same about the Merc, when i was shopping around for cars. I drove the E550, while it was very well engineered with supportive quality, it felt very mundane.
Same goes for Porsche. $45,000 dollar Boxter resembles a $150,000 Panny in every angle. Who wants that?

Jaguar has put a lot of effort into the F type, whether it's development, marketing etc.. In fact, i don't think any of their models have gotten half of the energy and dedication in decades.

The F type will do very well, regardless of 911s performance superiority.

 

BMW make great engines so does Jag.

 

I think it depends on what Jaguar is trying to accomplish. If they want to remain a boutique car maker then the performance numbers don't really matter. People will buy it on looks and how it makes them feel. If they want to compete with BMW, Audi and Merc they are going to need street cred and that means performance numbers and that translates -in a large part- to weight. They are going to have to make a car that every kid puts on his wall and dreams about. In order to accomplish that it has to beat all the other cars(in it's class) on the track. They initially came out saying that it was going to compete with the 911. I take that to mean performance. Then in some interview (i'd like to find it) Mike Cross states that it will be about 600 lbs heavier than the 911. I think Jaguar is sending mixed messages. Is it going to compete with the 911 or not? I guess it's possible to build something that weighs close to two tons and make it handle. Nissan made the GTR and GM the SS Camero. So I guess we will have to wait and see. I know I would feel more comfortable coming into a corner hot in a lighter car. The XKRS does a pretty good job but it still doesn't compete with the 911 Carrera S because of it's weight. Personally I would like to see Jaguar remain small. I like not seeing my car on every street that I drive on. But I would still like them to go on a diet!

 

I don't see how anyone can say such an illogical thing as to presume everyone will like the Viper more than the Vette.

Count me in the minority who likes the Vette more. If such a minority exists.

I'm also not a big fan of the F-Type vert. The pics of the coupe look much better to me but I don't expect the masses to share my view.

 

This C7 vert looks nice...very, very nice.

The 2014 Corvette Convertible: This Is It

No pop-up roll over protection though, which seems odd for a modern car. Not sure if the Viper vert will or not. Guess I'm picky or something.

Bruce

 

I was using hyperbole. Apparently I failed at it!

 

Not picky--spoiled!!!

 

Well, for one thing, count me also in the minority who prefers the C7 look to the Viper.

As to the F-type.... hmmmm.....

I generally look at (at least) 3 major factors for my car purchases: (in order of preference)

1) "WOW" factor (Wf)
2) Performance (Perf)
3) Price (Pr)

Let me show you some numbers on my real and the imaginary list:

Cars presently owned:
2012 Jaguar XJL = Wf=10, Perf=7, Pr=6
2008 Jaguar XK = Wf=8, Perf=5, Pr=6
1993 modded TwinTurbo RX-7 (500HP, 2600 lbs) Wf=7, Perf=10, Pr=10

Some outstanding examples not owned:
Lamborghini Aventador: Wf=10, Perf=10, Pr=1
Chevy C7 2014 w/Z51 suspension(just from specs) = Wf=7, Perf=8, Pr=8
Camaro ZL1 = Wf=1, Perf=8, Pr=8

So, what do I think of the F-Type? Since I have never seen it in real life I have to be cautious about the "WOW" factor rating. Just judging from the pictures and the published specs, here it is:

V6-base model = Wf = 6, Perf 6, Pr ($69K) = 4
V6 S model = Wf=6, Perf =7, Pr ($81K)= 3
V8 S model = Wf=6, Perf=8.5, Pr ($92K)= 3

Needless to say that something has to change with my perception of the F-type for me to consider buying it. Perhaps, the WOW factor will rise as soon as I stand next to one. I doubt the price will change much and the performance likely will remain the same for the next couple of years before an "R" model might be released.

To be really truthful, I am more inclined towards the 2014 C7 at this moment than towards the F-type.

Albert

Edit: An explanation for the WOW factor ratings of equal 10 for the Aventador and the XJL. The Aventador will obviously evoke much more a WOW than the XJL. But, in its own class of cars, against the present crop of big luxo cruisers, BMWs, Mercs, and Audis, I rate the XJL a 10 for WOW.

 

Albert,

Here's how others may judge it...

WOW factor 9-10 ... Always being raved as an auto show highlight is an indication! First year of a new model! Association with iconic E-Type! Large part of target market grew up with E-Type and auto buffs like nothing better than to relive the fantasies from their youth!

Performance factor 8-10 ... There's alway something more powerful, lighter, and faster. 0-60 in the low 4 sec range blows away just about everybody. Some cars don't excell in any one area, but are considerd top picks because they do everything well, inspire confidence, and are more fun to drive in a spirited fashion than 0-60 or lap times would indicate. The F-Type won't win a track shoot-out but it'll offer more performance on the street than most owners will even try to probe.

Price ... I'm not aware of any other car in this class that will offer better value. Vette owners debate the likelihood of GM going under, but there is consensous that they continue to build poor quality and dread the poor service they suffer at the dealer. They buy the car in spite of all the reasons not to. Upgraded interior a step in the right direction.

If Jaguar had replaced the XK with the F-Type and kept the price the same do you think price would be an issue any more than it was with the XK? Won't the V8S likely outperform the current XKR in every respect?

Bruce

 

Albert,

You would actually consider buying a Chevy over the Jaguar?
I have to say, i am surprised - especially when you own a beautiful XJ.