I was just thinking: suppose the F-Type doesn't deliver in the performance/sport category. Would it do a lot of damage to the Jaguar brand? I have a feeling it won't. Expectations from the general automotive community seem to be quite a bit lower for Jaguar than what they expect from other brands. The only things that this F-Type can do, looking from the perspective of the entire brand, is either improve its performance credentials against the likes of Porsche or just maintain the status quo. Just my opinion, of course.

 

Short exclusive from Mike Cross on the F type.

 

Bruce

You are all correct on YOUR perceptions of the F-type. My perceptions are largely colored by previous similar examples and experiences. I perceive the XK/XKR to be the reference against the F-type, the same way I consider the XJL against the XF, or the 911 against the Cayman/Boxer. Even though the XF or the Cayman/Boxer may have the same engine/performance packages, I am conditioned to expect to pay less for those cars because.... (less leather, less length, less mass, etc). The models costing less (XF, Cayman etc) may actually outperform their higher priced brethren. Still we pay less for them.

Thus, I had expected the F-type to be priced comfortably below the XK/R when similarly equipped performance wise. I would think that I am not alone in such perception and we will put up resistance for paying the same for a "smaller" model than for the "flagship" model of the same line.

Absolutely! I am really not loyal to any brand, I usually seek the factors listed in my post above and where I find their sum adding up best is where I will go. Example: During the horrible smog years of the 1970s when performance was DEAD, I purchased 2 different Euro-spec Lamborghinis only because that was about the only place to find performance.

Once the performance envelope opened during the mid-80s, I purchased a brand new Mustang GT and took it to pieces within the first 2 hours of my ownership and turned it into a autocross-championship winning car. By all measures it easily beat the heck out of both of my Lamborghinis. I sold the Lambos because I lost interest in them, they were no longer my performance leaders and the Lambo-WOW factor was not enough in itself to hold my interest. In a few more years the 3rd gen RX-7 came out with stunning looks and excellent performance for 1993. I purchased it and went to work on it and when done, it beat my Mustang handily and proved to be the fastest stock/modded car on my local race tracks. Lost interest-in and sold the Mustang.

Then, I got into full blown race cars and lost interest and sold the RX-7. When stopped racing I had to have a fast car and purchased and modded my present RX-7 that provides performance only matched by some of the highest priced exotics on the market (or other modded cars).

The reason I purchased the XK was for its WOW factor. I did not chose the XKR because the WOW factor was the same as for the XK and even the XKR would not come close to the performance of my modded RX-7.

So, to answer your question; yes, I would purchase the Chevy C7 over the Jaguar if the combinations of my 3 criterias would suggest for me to do so. If the F-type came in at, at least, the WOW factor of the XK, I would consider it. But, if and when I see it and I simply see a "nice looking" car for over $100K (V8 S), that would not be a combination sufficient for me to act on. On the other hand, the WOW factor of the new model C7 would likely only last for a year, or so, until you'd see one on every parking lot. That is also a consideration.

The XJL was purchased for those extra long drives that make up my occasional work commute. High WOW factor, very good performance...

Albert

 

Thanks for elucidating your view in such detail!

It seems like performance has always had the most leverage thoughtout the years and kept you elated.

 

performance isnt going to be the problem for the car. i believe the price is.

its priced right around the XK.....and the only difference is one is a GT car and the other is a track toy

the F-type should have been cheaper, especially considering there are plenty of cheaper alternatives that offer the same the F-type is

 

carzaddict,

Can you post a few?

 

Well the F-Type vert starts at $69k vs $85-90.5K for the XK vert. The F-Type will have just as much WOW, a bunch more performance, and seems like an epic deal to me for giving up what amounts to a leather covered package shelf in the shape of a back seat!

The F-Type V8S starts at $92k vs $106.5 for the XKR and will absolutely rape it in performance...EPIC deal! Heck, I suspect the V6S in most hands wouldn't be far off of the XKR for just $81k!!!

But the thing that the F-Type offers that none of the other performance cars can is a style that will endure the test of time, and unmatched exclusivity for all time. The current XK/R still does that today despite being around for a very long time.

Bruce

 

Of course, preferences can become history. No doubt that years ago my primary preference was performance. But, as listed in my previous post, these days the #1 is the WOW factor. I had quit racing years ago and, due to the lack of practice, I have lost much of my racing skills, I got older and lost interest in driving my local country roads at speeds in excess of 140MPH. My ultra-performance car has not seen the cover off for something like 4 months. These days, I much rather drive the 4.2 XK with its modest performance or the XJL.


Just as a counter point to the value issue, the specs of the V8 F-type suggest a performance that is pretty much equal to the base C7 equipped with Z51 suspension for about half the price. (485 HP, 3700 lbs vs. 450 HP 3300 lbs). So, it really comes down to the WOW factor. The "brand-name" alone is not enough incentive for me to pay double for. Like I said, if I see the car and it creates the same emotional reaction in me as the XK or XJL styling created then I'll consider the F-type V8 only. I absolutely do not care for a 3.0 liter V6, supercharged, or not.

As for the exclusivity issue, one of my Lamborghinis was 1 of 52, the other was 1 of 150 (?) ever made. Super exclusive but, was not enough for me to hold on to them. Besides, I already have two Jags... As a point of interest, the President of the American Lamborghini Club sent me a link that showed that my 1 of 52 ex-Lambo had recently sold at an auction. I read the description, the odometer claims and the rest and I called BS, big time. So, be careful believing any claims regarding used cars, particularly exotics!!!

Albert

 

That's why i feel as if you do purchase the C7, you may very quickly loose interest in it. About a few weeks between the cabin of the Vette and the beatiful cat, trepidation may steer you back into a Jag.

I have never been a fan of two seater cars, but the F type is a masterpiece and best in the league. I am very very fond of the car.

BTW, I want to move by you where all of those open country roads are in California. My XF would love tackling those roads.

 

I personally just don't like the look of the Corvette coupe from any angle except the front, but the convertible looks very nice from most angles in pictures. It will carry a premium over the coupe, as would an auto when they make that available, and any optional equipment required to make it more comparable to the F-Type or XKR.

The omission of roll over protection is rather telling, and whether they can go from sub-standard interiors to Jaguar level overnight seems doubtful. I don't expect to see overall better value when I factor in what's important to me, but I do expect to see a lower price...and that'll be enough to make it a huge success!

Bruce

 

You are most likely correct that I would also have the C7 under the cover for very extended periods. Truly, I need it like I need a kick in my back :-). The model that would stir my old racing soul is the ZR1 where I would be willing to forgive the interior quality in exchange for the 638HP and over 600 lbs of torque in a 3200 lbs car.

I am simply amazed that they can reliably put that much power and torque into a street car and warrant it for 3 years. When I raced GT2 and GT3 I was always tempted to purchase a GT1 race car with about 635 HP, 2400 lbs, slicks, etc. The chief reason I did not because I observed nearly every single GT1 car team was constantly working on their race cars between sessions, replacing everything (rear-end, transmission gears, driveshaft, wheel axles, etc) that got regularly torn up by all that much power and torque. How a street car can stand up to that much power I can only imagine assuming that 99.9% of drivers never use the full power for any length of time. Otherwise, the car would be torn apart by heavy use. But, then again, we have people, like Bruce here, regularly tracking his XKR which still has a lot of metal-twisting torque and HP. Yet, it seems to hold up...

Maybe I could be ready for a convertible for the first time in my life? Where I live, along the CA Gold Country, we have the absolute ideal, scenic roads for cruising, top down, on warm, sunny days during spring, summer and fall. If you like winding, hilly roads in good conditions, you'd love it with the great handling XF. It is a sheer joy to take out my 7 with its razor sharp handling. Too bad that I have not done so in many months now. The one thing that is worrying me these days about driving fast (or even at "normal" speeds) is that there seem to be an incredible growth in deer-to-car crashes. Nearly ever neighbor of ours had hit deer this year. A couple of 400 lbs black bear were also hit within a mile to my house. I've come very close many times so, it is only a matter of time. Hitting one at 140 MPH in a low-slung car is not a survivable option. There must be a deer overpopulation problem of late in this area. They represent a lot more risk than the Highway Patrol that hide under the roadside trees on weekends, waiting to cash-in on the valley-folks up for brisk drives. Then, we also have those hordes of Japanese superbikes... I had raced them all....ha..ha...ha... oh, so much fun...

Albert

 

Sounds perfect! Buying the vert was a no-brainer as soon as I retired and moved out of the city. I only drive it for pure enjoyment on nice days and it's a whole other level of fun with the top down. I can't open it up safely anywhere so performance is more measured by the ability to safely pass on a 2 lane highway, basic handling, and the quality of the ride. This is one reason I know the F-Type will score well in real world performance for this type of vehicle. I also wanted to track mine the odd time so I was more focused on serious performance than most.

We just love the car, my wife thinks I'm crazy to even consider trading it, and the thought of it not being worth every penny has never crossed my mind. The thought of the V8S offering better performance and being priced less seems like a heck of a deal. I will admit though that my compass reads differently after repeated horrible experiences at GM dealers for many years, and that's hard to shake off. Visiting the Corvette forum for the last week and hearing the widespread dissatisfaction from Vette owners just brought it all back, and the lower C7 price only serves to reinforce the belief that you usually get what you pay for. I've been happy to pay a premium to Acura, BMW and Toyota for years so I never had to go back there.

But that C7 vert sure is pretty....damn!!!

Bruce

 

@Ghostrider-I tried to private message you but was denied. Please send me a PM.

 

I got a chance to spend an extended amount of time in the F-Type in the Jaguar showroom today when I dropped my car off for service. It definitely feels nice. It's a little narrower than the XKR, but is nowhere near the small size of the Boxster or the Miata. It doesn't seem sized like a car that could potentially weigh 3,000 pounds, so it doesn't surprise me that it weighs much more.

However, the fit and finish seems quite good and it does have a a modern look without being too crazy. I got to play around with the multimedia system, and it is not laggy at all, although it didn't seem all that intuitive. Neat layout of buttons on the console (performance modes, spoiler, etc.).

 

Which version of the car did you sit in, v6 or V8? Any clue how it was optioned? Thanks

 

It was an S model. Does that mean it was a V8? I don't know about the other options.

 

Do they have a demo car for test drives?

 

Nope. Not yet. I can't imagine they'd let a citizen drive it before they allowed the press to!

 

Quad exhaust is the V8 and center exhaust is the V6

 

Dealership I bought my car from has an F-Type in the showroom, but no one has driven it yet. They are going to an F-Type event next month in Austin for dealer training and to drive the car.

My hunch is that Jaguar wants to really set things up correct so the message and sale is clear among dealers. This is making to be a heck of a car, IMO.