Have you ever been parked next to the new Mustang? They look light years different for modern cars. I was parked next to a black Mustang a few weeks ago, they were drastically different executions. The XK has much more in common with a 1996 Ford Mustang than a 2016.

 

I would like to know more about that car- it looks identical to a Tatra, a company that the Fuhrer and Fernidad stole from, and later convicted of theft. Its one of my favorite stories.

Here is the car it looks like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_77

 

A must read by all Jaguar lovers. One of the greatest designers ever, is also one that was most ignored. No one even knows where he is buried or cremated, not even his family. He designed our car and others pictured on this post. I think its because he designed something so beautiful that the creation had a bigger life than his own. Mark of a true genius.
Jaguar: Malcolm Sayer - the man behind the curves - BBC News

 

I dont think any of us have been parked next to the new mustang.
In the image below, the flared rear haunches, existed in no other mustang prior and hallmark of Jaguar.

 

It is a Mercedes 200, and the benefit of the aerodynamic shape did not outweigh in the public mind the roomier non streamlined cars or open aired cars. This doomed it to near obscurity. Incidentally, Tatra paid the same designer of that older Mercedes for the design of T77. Who copies whom?

VW, Hitler, or Porsche, were never [b]convicted[b/] of theft. VW did however, pay Tatra in 1961 to avoid such a possibility. Both the "bug" and T77 were in development at about the same time, and the head designers of both projects met and chatted about what they were working. There was certainly a sharing of information. Porsche, was not I think quite so much a great engineer or inventor, as he was a man of "get things done". He had a good flare for showmanship, and was fast to catch on to the good ideas around him.



For further aerodynamic review, 1931 Rail speed record holder. Or check out a Rumpler Tropfenwagen sometime.

 

True history, as you most likely know: Hitler goes to Czechoslovakia sees this car called Tatra- Goes home asks his Friend and **** party volunteer Ferdinand Porsche to copy it exactly and he wants it to be the peoples car, or Folks Wagon. Ferdi does it and immediately gets sued for infringement (theft of IP)- he runs to Hitler- Adolf says dont worry I will solve our problem right away- he invades Czechoslovakia. After the war Ferdi and co do time in prison for war crimes. The lawsuit from before the war surfaces again and the judge agrees VW took Tatra's 2 main designs. This was the conviction. Since Ferdinand was dead, VW settled.

But it's all academic. These may look aerodynamic but they wernt really in the sense I speak of. Because none of them proved a thing. Jaguar on the other hand, designed by Sayer's understanding of aerodynamics won races back to back and they had the lower power engines.

I have to disagree on one thing, while I dislike what Germany and Porsche stood for, he was a great inventor, he invented the electric hub motor which every electric/hybrid car today, even the race sort, owe Porsche for. But you would be right that Germans in general are not the inventors they publicize themselves to be. They bought the rights to build the Panzer tanks from Brits and the V2 rocket from the Yanks. Everything else they were quick to exploit the patent office. They are great aggregators just like we see them buying up all kinds of British car brands, as if they dont know how to come up with these designs themselves.

 

New Maserati- looks like...

 

this one a Fisker designed Viper.
Aston (his former employer) has sent him a seize and desist letter for this design. I wish Jaguar could get its design back from Aston.

 

I read a lot as a kid, I had to start going to the next nearest cities Library as I had exhaust my own. Excerpts on books on aerodynamics from the pre 1900's would be referenced. There was a large knowledge available of shapes and their effects. To design something of low drag, you took your knowledge of low drag shapes, and applied them directly to the object of your desire.

The Gee Bee R1/2 had a body some 50% wider than was necessary to wrap the size of the motor, as the designer knew this would result in significantly less wide. (The airplane only needs to be about 1500mm in diameter, yet at its widest was about 2200mm.)

The aircraft industry made huge advancements in aerodynamics long before the E-type came along. The 1922 Mercedes 200 was developed by an engineer that worked before for an aircraft company. He applied his extensive knowledge and wind tunnel testing to automobiles in the hope it would catch on, but people loved the wind in the their hair of open top motoring, and aerodynamic coupes remained primarily the business of racing cars only. The road systems did not really allow for the speeds they do today, the style and roominess was more important to the buyer. While Ferrari started building aerodynamic racing specials of the 250GT, the main production remained the same.

The primary reason streamlined cars took so long, is they weren't comfortable! GT racing was based on touring cars, but ego's eventually resulted in them being back to prototype racing machines again with non production engines or bodies to gain an edge of competitors. Even the E-type was not immune with its special race car offerings.

 

I see exactly where I lost you. Sayers legacy is so obscure that it would take a fanatic like to dig it up.

Sayer did not invent aerodynamics. Sayer was the first to apply aviation aerodynamics and construction (the two are related) to automotive design. Since he came from aviation. In fact his designs were called "aircraft on wheels" Not those things the Germans were making that resembled insects.

The noteworthy point is that while many tried different shapes that looked aerodynamic to the eye, Sayer's mathematical calculations have proven him to be bit of a supernatural wiz. Only CAD computer can do what he was doing before the advent of computers. Thats what get him the title of first to be right about aerodynamics.

This a nice short article
Aerodynamics: The Great Curve ? Part One | Driven To Write

 

Incidentally, your point about giving Mercs/ Germans some credit. Absolutely not!

We have specific decorum to decide a victor: Race, War and Litigation.
German 'superior technology' was categorically defeated in all 3 venues.

As Jaguar owners we should be doubly proud and know that the Spitfire aeroplanes had no equal, they won the war for us. There are few better examples of British Brilliance in design.. And yes your Jaguar was made in the very same factory as the Spitfire by the some of the very people who worked on the plane.

An XKR shares one distinct DNA with the Spitfire and its Merlin engine. It had endless pull.

There is a great movie 'First of a Few' if anyone wants see what went into making the Spitfire. The tiny island called Great Britain has given us so much. 'Never has so much been owed by so many to so few'

God Save the Queen (no not Elton John)

 

You have a lot to be proud of in your history, but if you read our American history books, there is a notion that maybe the Yanks had maybe a small role in that victory?

 

This thread is becoming infinitely more and more amusing...

 

We owe much of it to America, while the tiny island may never be able to repay its best friend, it did do its best by sending over the Merlin engine.

 

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. I've been in love with Jags since I was popping wheelies on my bike, and going to the emergency room shortly thereafter. LOL. actuall before that. my first automobile love was the e-type...as enzo famously stated, the most beautiful car ever made.....now I feel that way about my xkr!

 

Same here. But this time around Jaguar threw us long time devotes a real bone- Jaguar has never ever been this technologically ahead. They gave us something that no Jaguar before had, an engineering masterpiece.

It lacks absolutely no new technology found in German and Japanese rivals, direct injection; check, Variable valves; check. In fact those others dont have this degree of perfection. Direct injection for the Germans has been a disaster. Electronic variable valves have too much latency.

Its perfect in every regard. The Etype was not. Getting it started was a special occasion. A great scene in Mad Men, Nathan tries to commit suicide in his new etype but it wont start.

 

Absolutely!!!! Its definitely the complete package! What's funny is, I was enjoying a small talk moment with the wife and I don't know how we got on the subject of the super rich, but she asked me what would I drive if I was as rich as Bill Gates. And I immediately said the XKR in the garage...Of course I would have a few more toys, quite a few...but I'm sure the XKR would remain my daily driver....I wonder if that makes me insane? LOL

 

I said to my wife, lets get the XKR while it is still the car of our dreams and we are not so rich that nothing impresses us anymore. Frankly, no other car would have worked for what i needed.

 

O yea a sporty mondeo, how inventive. What's gone wrong with all these car maufactures, it's all about cloning now, the mustang look ruined IMO.