As many of may know I've had lots of issues with my new 12 XKR not to mention the sales delivery nightmare that I experienced and I'm reaching the end of my rope. Current mileage 859.

Vehicle was brought in to service on 4 separate occasions to address the following issues of what's gone wrong in just the first week or so of ownership:

1. Defective tires (repaired)

2. Warped brake rotors (repaired)

3. Drivers side headlight cluster not fitted properly (repaired)

4. Drivers side weather stripping defective (not repaired)

5. Engine idle mis/stumble when cold (not repaired)

6. Clear coat drip in paint (repaired)

7. Car was out of alignment (repaired)

8. Scratch in windscreen since new (awaiting repair or replacement)

9. Rattle below rear quarter driver’s side window (awaiting repair)

10. Active exhaust valves squeaking (repaired but not yet verified until fuse replaced)

11. Condensation in both headlights after washing (was told it was normal???)

12. Found another defect in the paint where's it's very rough and rasied around the edge of the conv top cover/panel

The misfire at start up is really the straw that broke the camel's back as I had a client come see the car yesterday and when I started it right after the fast idle settled it stumbled and jerked, my client (another well seasoned car guy) was truly embarrassed for me and said what's wrong with this car? I was too embarrassed to even tell him the half of what’s gone wrong in just 800 miles.

I've taken it in for the misfire/stumble problem and was told 1) all the 5.0's do this and 2) there are no codes, so nothing is wrong. I know from previous experience that just because there no code does not always mean something is not wrong. I tried changing fuel brands three times Shell, Mobil and Chevron but no change. This problem does not occur with every cold start but it is there at least 5 out of 10 starts and it’s a sharp mis/stumble until it warms and then the idle is better but still has a very slight occasional stumble but nothing like after the cold start.

What do you guys advise I do as I am running out of patience and don't have the health to be at the service dept every week? I must say the service guys have been very attentive and pleasant but when I'm told a stumbling engine idle is normal I've got a serious problem with that. I've also been very good to the service dept bringing them food and drink a few times to which they were all grateful. I wrote my SA an email highlighting all the problems and concerns last evening and even suggested they get a Jauguar technical specialist invloved cc’ing both the service director and GM and received no reply as of yet...not good!

I've also never received any receipts for all the service work was done and I've requested them twice and in the email. I've also never received the Jaguar CSI survey but got an email from my sales guy thanking me for a great survey!!! I don't think Jaguar USA would be too happy about that.

I'm beginning to think this sweet peach of a car has turned into a sour lemon What a shame. This is my first Jaguar and very well may be my last.

Thanks,

 

Can you take a video/audio clip of the stumbling? I'd be happy to do the same... then you'll know one of two things: If mine does it, maybe they all do stumble OR (and more likely) yours has something odd with it. Personally, I've never noticed a stumble with mine at all -- just a happy burble of V8 goodness.

I gotta admit, I've been alarmed at your experience. It certainly doesn't mirror my own, and I bought mine used with 2.8k on the Odo. About the only issue mine has that yours did was those stupid lopsided dunlops. I get no condensation in the lights, and I drive mine in the rain several times a week. Mind you, mine is garage kept so maybe that has some bearing on it.

Perhaps you should consider getting a second opinion of the car from another dealership? But at least see if you can capture the stumble and let us see if we can demonstrate as a collective forum whether you're unique in that issue.

 

I certainly feel bad for you, and you definitely do have legitimate issues with the car. Compounding that annoyance ihas been some pretty serious dissatisfaction with several features, or lack of them, that you discovered after you purchased it. Nothing can be done about those things. But together it must seem all very aggravating and disappointing. it also seems that your car isn't representative of what other's have experienced at all, and that gives me confidence that your problems can be resolved.

Whether you keep it or sell it, the car is surely to be in 100% perfect form soon...the only question is whether you'll be able to enjoy it... or the next owner.

I think your dealer could and should have done a much better pre-delivery inspection, if they did one at all. You give them credit, but at the end of the day they gave you a car that was in no way presentable, and they should have had the trained eyes to spot several of your issues, and a road test would have exposed a few others. I'm sure Jaguar would have expected you to have a great purchase experience, and would be embarrassed to have your problems posted on the internet. They would surely fault the original dealer for not finding some of these issues before putting it on their lot, your dealer for putting it on theirs, and your dealer again when they prepared it for delivery. They've impressed you in some ways, but competence should not be one of them.

I'm sure they will respond to you shortly, but be prepared to escalate it to a Jaguar regional rep. I'd drop it in their lap and tell them you don't want it back until they've fixed the issues you've identified, got serious about checking it over for other issues with a fine tuned comb so you don't have to, and be prepared to have your lawyer fire off a warning shot.

Bruce

 

I agree completely here.

Jaguar cars aren't perfect, just like any other complex piece of engineering and technology, but what you're experiencing is unacceptable. I'd call Jaguar USA and tell (not ask) that you are giving the car back as Bruce suggested above, and I'd go so far as to find another dealer. My apologies, but the dealership you are dealing with doesn't have your interests at heart. These cars are high end automobiles and you should be treated in that same way.

Also, if you have leased or financed, there may be legal remedies to your situation such as invalidating the lease or getting another car under a lemon law.

At this point I'd be extremely pi$$ed (actually a while ago) and would not put up with it.

 

Back in the day (we're talking 1970s here) when my buddies and I would cruise the used car lots, we heard about the "flood car" scams that dealers would engage in. For those of you on this board who have never heard of a "flood car" -- these were cars that had suffered flood damage and were usually considered totaled by the owner's insurance policy. They were sold to wholesalers who then repainted and cleaned everything on the car to hide the flood damage. When we would see a 4-5 year old car on the lot that had new paint, carpet, seats and a sparkling clean engine, you could bet your bottom dollar that there was mud or water in the transmission.

Fast forward to 2012. Flood cars are pretty much a thing of the past with tools like CarFax. But I'm sure there are still some dealers out there today who have questionable tactics.

I've watched RJC's complaint list grow on this forum almost every week. Given the amount of time his car sat on the lot combined with this long defect list, is it possible that the dealer was using it for parts swap with other '12s? I don't know if/how one can verify this and I really hope I am wrong.

I agree with Bruce. This needs to be escalated. The question is whether you have the time and energy to see it through.

Mike

 

What dealer are you using? Just so we all know to avoid them....

 

Thank you for everyone's comments and support but I need to clear up a few things.


The originating dealership was Jaguar of Ft Pierce FL; why this car sat for so long could be due to it being a very small dealership but nevertheless it caused by car's tires to flat spot and the brake rotors to need replacing. I was the one that found the car since my dealer (Alpine) had none with Nevis wheels as it had almost everything I wanted with only 8 miles and rather than buy it directly from Ft Pierce I wanted to be loyal to the selling dealership Alpine Jaguar in Ft Lauderdale FL as they ordered the first blk/blk 2012 for me last year, but when my health became worse I cancelled the order and they refunded my deposit with no questions asked; all they asked was for me to consider them for a future purchase...and that's exactly what I did. I am a man of my word and always have been and always will be.

The General Manager, Service Director, Service writer, Shop foreman and Tech have all be excellent trying to get this car sorted and they are aware of my spinal damage and they even offered to do special modifications to get my drivers seat extra cold even with the top down when I first got the car...amazing customer service right there. In the past they have also tried very hard to get this problem plagued car straightened out and I have shown my gratitude by bringing them food and drink of their choice just as my way of saying thank you.

What I don't like and will not accept, is being told a significant engine stumble/misfire during cold start is a normal characteristic of the 5.0 engine and just because no hard codes were shown means everything is working properly; this is not always the case. I explained in my email to them, I had a similar problem on a new Porsche that also showed no codes and Porsche hooked up a special device to record the events and the problem was found and rectified. I also asked in my email to get a Jaguar tech specialist involved if needed and that I wanted to drop the car off yet one more time on Monday. I emailed the Service Writer, Director and GM and none of them responded; this is the second time this has occurred and the lack of communication is only going to escalate matters while causing me further aggravation which I truly don't need.

I was also very disappointed that somehow my CSI survey (which is very important to the dealership) was submitted to Jaguar giving the Alpine and the sales guy exceptional ratings without my involvement at all. When I questioned the GM via email he never responded where previously he always had, so when I finally saw him and questioned him in person he said that it was some kind of glitch, the survey didn’t count and I'd be getting the real survey this month...we'll see; either way I'm sure Jaguar of North America would not be very pleased if I informed them of this and the entire nightmare that took place when I went to sign and take delivery of the car; I am not going to take things to this level YET unless I have to and am willing to give Alpine one more chance to get this car right or offer me a new replacement. The GM is a very kind soft spoken guy who sweetened the deal after the delivery fiasco to keep me as a cutomer and keep the car sold, as I was so upset I actually walked out and he called me to come back; but unfortunatley as things now stand, sometimes the car business gets the best of, even the best.

So what we seem to have here is a problem car that could be repaired further but at what mental and physical cost to me. We also have a dealership that has tried very hard to exceed the standard of customer service but also violated very important official Jaguar procedures/standards. The fact the dealership is not answering my email is only going make this situation much, much worse for me and them.

Where does this all leave me? Angry, frustrated, remorseful and sad. This purchase was supposed to be something to bring some badly needed joy into my darkened life since the spinal injection gone wrong and now I have more grief after spending $110,000.00 on the very thing that was supposed to make me smile...how sad.

I would really like to see a happy ending to this story and would very much like to keep driving an XKR…the ball is in their court and I trust they will do the right thing...that would be a win-win-win for Jaguar, Alpine and me.

What do you guys think would be an approiate resolution on the delaership's part now that I've explained the whole story?

Thanks again for the thoughts,

 

Take the car to your dealer and give it to them. Give them your list and tell them to go over it with a fine tooth comb. Tell them to keep it for a week, two weeks, or three - but when they call you to come pick it up it should be as you should have received it when first purchased.

That gives them another chance to make things right and it gives you another chance to get the car you should have gotten to begin with.

 

Your case needs to be escalated up the food stream, and when it gets there, my guess is that they will have a discussion amongst themselves, and the first thing they're going to ask about the situation will be, "is this a problem customer, or is this a problem car?"

Once they determine that it's the latter, then they should just start all over and give you a new car. I don't know if that's how the automotive industry works, but that's surely how any respectable company in any other industry would act.

 

Thanks.

I'll tell you what I would like and think is fair and reasonable. Since the car needs several more things repaired I would like to spare both myself and the delaership any more time spent on this car and have them get me a replacement, I would insist though that I keep the my current used Nevis rims w/Pilot tires and they can put the brand new Nevis rims and tires that come on the replacement car, on the car I'm returning which is good for the dealership. My car still has only 840 +/- miles and once its sorted will serve its new owner well and have spared either him or her from all the problems I've already had sorted out for them.

I would also ask to be able to spend a good 20-30 miles of testing the replacement and cold starting it for 3-4 mornings in a row at the dealership to make sure there are no misfires/stumbles.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

I don't think there's any chance of getting a different car unless it strictly meets the "lemon" laws. What you probably really want is them to just fix the one you have, and that should be the most attractive solution to Jaguar.

I think it's all going to boil down to how hard you're going to have to push to get them off their backsides and take this seriously. From what I can see they are becoming unresponsive, expecting you to accept their stumbling excuses, and surely figure you'll get tired of it and just go away. I don't think you'll be able to handle the road they're forcing you down. This is why you need a lawyer, and have it escalated out of the dealership. The lawyer will get their attention better without you having to pound your fists just to get their attention. It becomes serious when they have to deal with a lawyer, and they know they're not going to be able to talk their way out ;of it. You can live your life without dealing with them for a while.

The dealership staff are not your friends. They're job is to sell cars and minimize their costs. If they can do that and have happy customers that's ideal, but if they have the odd one that they can't...well, you can't make everybody happy all of the time. Jaguar USA will have a very different perspective than the franchise dealer, and it's going to have to reach that level to get this resolved. They likely already have the solution to the stumbling issue, and the dealer isn't even asking them.

I'd touch base with Skeeter as he is a lawyer. He might be able to steer you in the right direction.

Bruce

 

It sounds like your dealer may be being confused with the pre-2007 model XK headlight condensation problem. My 2000 XKR had it for the longest time.

Jaguar did issue a TSB for the problem which required a hole to be made in the rear of the light housing and a vent (small T-shaped tube) to be fitted.

It definately should no longer be an issue with 2007 and later cars. I've played a hose over the lights of my 2008 XKR for like 2 minutes trying to cause it, and I couldn't get it to happen even slightly. On my old car, before the vents were fitted, it would only take a few seconds of washing the headlights with a hose to cause condensation to form inside the glass.

 

Bruce
You might be right and this would be quite sad if it turns out this way. I still have some faith the GM might just do the right thing, as he is also part owner of the dealership and I still think a decent guy. Even though he may not find this solution the most favorable to his pocketbook right now it will go along way via word of mouth about his actions and goodwill toward his customers and the brand, as there are many MB, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Audi etc drivers that are petrified of owning a Jag. The fact that the dealership will rectify a very unpleasant experience far above and beyond what their aforementioned competitors would do, may just change the owners of the competition's minds about giving Jaguar a chance, knowing that if they did happen to get a problem car it will be handled by far exceeding expectations...just like the exceptional ratings they ask their customers to give them.

JustNiz
I believe you are absolutely right about that.

 

Thats funny. I for one would be petrified of the repair bills associated with owning any of the German brands you mentioned. Their supposedly great reliability is really more of a myth than reality.

 

Was speaking from a new car perspective...I also mentioned Lexus too and no doubt could include Acura, Infiniti and even Hyundai ala the new Equis. I would bet out of warranty repairs on a newer XKR could get rather expensive.

 

It's interesting on the Caillac forums every so often a GM rep will chime in when someone is posting about problems with their car or dealership and will actually pm the person. Don't know if it's all a just a PR stunt but people seem to have received help.

Does Jaguar NA ever monitor these forums?

It's also interesting when you ask service dept personnel if they ever check out the major forums specific to their brand, they most always say no and say don't believe what you read on them.

 

Jaguar would be wise to interact with its customers on this level. I just don't understand why they don't do it on an official basis.

I've talked to some people at dealerships that monitor/interact in these forums and some who don't. I am sure there is a legal aspect to doing so...eg making Jag legally liable for statements made here in an official capacity?

However, if I were in charge of "whatever the dept name is at Jag" I'd actually push the company to sponsor forums on company servers. I thin the info here is invaluable.

 

Just had a friend over in an 012' Ferrari, talk about a lumpy startup idle.....and it replaced a troublesome Aston Martin, man new cars aren't without faults. It's ok to be critical if paying a large sum, maybe time for something German. Oh, wait.....
BMW recalls 1.3 million cars worldwide | Reuters

 

RJC - My wife had a 1998 XJ8L VDP. We had the infamous "timing chain break" happen with us. As a result, one of the valves were driven into the wall of no.8 cylinder, which gouged the Molybdenum (sp?) coating and ruined the engine. At the time (late 2000, 2001) we dealt with one of the Hennessey dealerships near Buckhead in Atlanta. The car was 4800 miles out of warranty, and Jag absolutely knew this was a defect with the tensioners in that engine. We wound up having to buy another engine ourselves.

I kept on with the dealership and finally found out (through a good semeritan (sp?) there) that the guy in charge of the service dept was who torpedo'd us with Jag in getting them to cover the repair. He was an older guy and was an a$$hole I wa stold. He is not there anymore, but I still don't deal with them. I finally came to the realization that it wasn't Jag NA that did not want to help, it was that guy and what he did to undermine us. He tried to make it look like we *never* changed the oil in the car which was ridiculous.

I learned some valuable lessons in that escapade. While the current dealers I've dealt with are head and shoulders above that one, I will never take the word of a local dealer on something so serious no matter how nice they are. It's about you - not them.

I still think you should give them a chance to make it right, one last time, even if they need the car for a few weeks. If after that you aren't satisfied, you canseek out an attorney. An attorney really should be your last resort. Once you get an attorney involved, that will cost you some money and may possibly destroy your relationship with that dealer.

I do hope you get this resolved positively. I am still a loyal Jag customer and love their cars. I've had good luck with Jag since that episode.

 

Thanks guys.

I would like to give them one last chance but I need to hear back from them...if they don't reply to my my email requesting to bring the car in then I guess I don't have much of a choice?

It's such a shame because on one hand they were trying so hard but on the other they really don't seem to care...kind of disfuntional, schizophrenic or bipolar.

Every car company has problem cars and many seem to end up with the most discerning owners (or maybe we find all the defects while most people couldn't care/wouldn't notice) but its the way the franchise we bought the product from handles the customers dissatisfaction that truly influences the overall experience for the brand; yes you are right Jaguar should really care about this. Jaguar itself is a small company conp'd to its competition and when they finally lure someone away from their much larger competition they should do whatever is necessary and reasonable to keep from loosing that customer. It's not like having customers go back and forth between BMW and MB trying the new 7 one cycle then trying the new S class for another...it's different here.

It's now yet another day and no one from Alpine has replied to my email, even acknowledging it's ok to bring the car in on Monday...