I'm not going to dive deeply into this other than to comment on your use of email.

As IT, I am quick to condemn ANYONE that thinks email is a valid way to conduct legal discussions.

There are exceptions to the rule....

Did you get a "read receipt" from the vender (95% of the companies out there have this function disabled by default), so the common answer is "well...no.... but I sent it!".... This is meaningless.

Always ask for an immediate reply that the message was received in the body of the message, even if it is to say "We will look into it..."

My point... If you got nothing back, assume they got nothing in.... the real world of email is that simple....

Just offering food for thought...

from Vince

 

Did they answer your emails when you first purchased the car? And now they are not? If so, this may indicate that they have counsel who is advising them not to communicate using email -- having electronic records is probably not in their best interest.

Mike

 

Yes they answered most every email regularly but whenever I mention anything where they fell short I don't get a reply. I did ask for a reply/response and sent it to three people there; the service writer, director and cc'd the GM and I have emailed with all of them previously so they get the messages and are not in a spam filter. As a matter of business etiquette they should have least written back saying, I'm sorry you're still having issues with your vehicle and please bring it in so we can have another look and or call in a Jaguar tech specialist. I don't think this would create any negative legal connotations for them, on the contrary as its better than ignoring a dissatisfied customer asking for help.

It appears as Bruce indicated earlier they don't answer and hope you go away...if I ran my business this way when there were problems with clients, I'd have half the business I do.

 

I've just written the GM a seperate email asking to meet with him to hopefully prevent this problem from worsening; he is in today and hopefully he will repsond accordingly.

As I've said before, the GM is part owner and has a true vested interest in keeping customers for the long run and there's not that many people buying brand new XKR's these days; their lot has a bout 5 or 6 of them that have been sitting there for a while now.

 

The should use this opportunity to up-sell, not turn customer's away.

 

Heard back from GM as he replied to my last email, I asked if he would meet with me privately on Monday afternoon and his reply was "absolutely", I was very happy to hear this as my Wife and I really like him; we like everyone there for that matter. Hopefully we'll get to an amicable resolution and I will continue to drive an Jaguar XKR. I can only imagine what it would be like to drive one that's not plagued with so many problems from the start...must be amazing.

I'm in the kind of business where my decisions influence people who happen to drive very fine automobiles, many of them drive MB, BMW, Porsche, Bentley, Lexus etc but only one drives a Jag (a new XJL). They have all be asking me about my new Jag and I've been rather redicent about everything as I've been a bit embarrassed; hopefully this will change for the better soon.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and I'll let you guys know the final outcome.

 

You've been far more patient than I would have been. But hang in there, truly the new Jags are great cars, it just seems you got one with more "character" than the rest of us.

 

Thanks Niz. I know what you mean, I came very close to walking away several times but the GM and 3 of the service guys are really tying hard.

I'll give them another shot to fix the rest and if they're successful great, if not I'll ask for a replacement.

 

I think you are being too personally involved and invested with this dealership. You keep making excuses for them and making comments like "my Wife and I really like him; we like everyone there for that matter".
I hate to break the news to you - they do NOT care about you! Any "friendship" from the dealership is a carefully crafted business act to get you to spend money, and make certain you say positive things that makes them more money.

Your car is not right & this dealership is not making things to your satisfaction.
There are several other Jag dealerships within a 20 min drive of Ft Lauderdale.
Make an appointment with one of them, bring a typewritten list, and see if any of them get resolved.

My experience with complaining to Jag NA about a very bad Jag dealership was met with totally deaf ears. Interestingly, when a Porsche dealership damaged my car on a TSB repair and then denied, all it took was one call to Porsche NA - 2 days later a very apologetic GM sent a flat-bed to pick up the car.

 

I hear ya, but for the most part, I still feel the 5 guys I'm dealing with are a good group...time will tell as their actions will speak louder than any words.

I have to change my meeting until the following week due to my schedule (not theirs). Keep you guys posted.

 

Hi RJC,

My local dealer has one stratus grey on black XKR with the dynamic package and I might be interested in but after reading this post and being owner of Lexus and Porsche, I'm really scared of the Jaguar XKR reliability. I know that Jaguar has the platinum coverage but I don't have time and effort to spend at the dealer weekly. Should I reconsider my choice and go with the new porsche Carrera instead?

Is the dynamic package makes the ride a lot stiffer and less comfortable? I drove the regular XKR and the suspension was ok.

Thanks

Ian

 

Ian,

Jaguar generally does not do as well as Lexus or Porsche in initial quality ratings; some here try to discount the JD Power numbers but they are a valid benchmark and it's most important to look for a long term trend; Lexus is most always on top for good reason and Jaguar is normally around 10th+ making the number one spot only once in recent surveys (I believe 2009) and everyone including most Jaguar dealers were very surprised and touted the numbers proudly, but once they fell back to their norm of mid pack again the down playing of the numbers started all over again.

I think my particular car was at a disadvantage due to it sitting idle at the originating dealership for 7 months, this caused tire flat spots and brake rotor damage, but the car still had/has other bugs not repaired as I've previously listed. My Wife bought a new Lexus and her car has been essentially bullet proof and I've owned countless Porshes and my last a new 2007 C2S was perfect until about 17,000 miles when the engine started drinking oil and then needed replacement; if you go to Rennlist.com you can read many similar stories about 2005+ cars having engines go and I haven't seen one Jaguar XKR post about a catastrophic failure.

So to answer your question I think overall Porsche is a safer bet especially since the new 991's engine design has corrected the previous flaw but I also think the new Jag will be ok but don't expect it to have Lexus like initial quality. You'll no doubt hear someone say their Lexus was a nightmare but every brand produces lemons; again it's the long term trend in the initial quality numbers to look for.

Another thing to consider is many here bought their cars second hand so the previous owner may have endured and corrected most of the initial quality concerns and by the time the second owner got the car it was already excsorsized of most if its demons.

The most important thing is how good will the dealership be if you happen to get a problem child car like I did? Mine has tried very hard to sort the car out but unfortunately they may be starting to develop an attitude/air of it's you, not the car and that's not good, not good at all. I recently got the remark about the poor quality drivers side windshield trim (it looks as if it's ripped it's so out of alignment) from the service mgr of "most people wouldn't notice that", my service writer however agreed it looked really bad and he personally checked every car on the lot for me. My car also has a nasty not subtle mis-stumble at idle during the cold start phase and my service writer said " all the 5.0 engines do that" who the hell wants to hear those kinds of responses; just acknowledge the defect say you're sorry about it and get it fixed for the customer ASAP and if they cannot find the problem offer to get Jaguar involved without the customer having to ask...funny all of 12 XF loaners i was given had no idle issues, they were smooth as glass, they all had about 1600 miles and a nasty steering wheel shimmies at 50+ due to the tires being out of balance or out of round, when I casually mentioned it to one if the the service guys he said oh the loaner cars are always out of alignment cause people slam into curbs all the time...come on new XF's with just over 1500 miles and all having the exact same problem, maybe that's true on occassion but everyone I drove and with less than 2000 miles??? I hate it when your intelligence is questioned like that but I guess they are so used to the average customer believing their bs and they think it will work on everyone. It would have been so much better for the guy to say, yes the XF 's have very sensitive front suspensions and the factory could do a better job of balancing the tires before delivery etc...I'm surprised he didn't say most people wouldn't notice steering wheel shimmies. What tactic, put it back on the customer and make him feel like he's being unreasonable.

Hopefully the car you're looking at will be just fine but again do a thorough long test drive but if you want the odds on your side of less initial new car defects Jag may not be the right choice.

Check the manufacture date of the car you're looking to but (it's in the drivers side door jamb) and take the car out on a long test drive, check the brakes, alignment, see how it idles after a dead cold start, go over railroad tracks listening for rattles etc and whatever you may find have them address it BEFORE you take delivery.

If you want to be on the safe side with the numbers on your side a Jag may not be the best choice but then again some here with new 12's are having no problems, hopefully you'll be one of them.

I bought a Samsung led tv and it unexpectedly developed some heavy green tint issues out of warranty, Samsung sent a tech over who could not fix the problem, after speaking with Samsung they issued me a prorated refund no questions asked...guess what brand of new TV I bought as a replacement...you got it Samsung and I even stepped up to their flagship. How one is treated when there are problems with a product truly determines if you'll go back to that brand again, Samsung stepped up then so did I...

 

Ian,

Great recommendations from RJC. I'd add that Jaguar's current and recent years current initial/reliability/satisfaction ratings have been hammered by the all-new XF and XJ's. I've followed those forums and you see constant evidence of why that would be, and to a lesser degree the then-new '07-09 XK's that definitely had/have their issues as well. Those seem to have been successfully addressed with the broad XK changes for 2010, with the all-new XF and XJ's needing the same sorting out. Previous generation XJ owners are some of the happiest, loyal repeat buyers you'll find.

Some of the bugs seem to have been worked out of the 2012 XF's with it's recent upgrades so that should be reflected in the ratings over time.

I'd suggest Jaguar generally has a poor track record for initial quality and reliability on all-new models, but they do get some production defects fixed over the first year or two, and others when they do a more thorough mid-model life upgrade. In the past I'd never buy the first year of an all-new model from various other manufacturer's for that exact same reason, but wouldn't hesitate with Toyota or Honda products because they had a good record of getting it right the first time.

Hopefully RJC's 2012 experience will be an anomoly, and you'll be able to get feedback from other 2012 owners with perhaps a new thread. Good luck.

Bruce

 

It's interesting to see JD Powers Dependability Study which collects data in the last 12 months for problems on a 3 year old vehicle.

Starting with 2007 vehicles which includes the X150s (study released in 2010), Jaguar was ranked 11th (above industry average). 2008 vehicles (JD study released in 2011), Jaguar was ranked No. 3 in dependability. 2009 vehicles (study released this year), Jaguar dropped near the bottom at 28 according to JD Powers Dependibility study. I wonder if that was because of the XF which was release during that year. It will be interesting to see next year's study which will have the 2010 model year and their new 5.0L engines.

It looks like 2005 Jaguar was the most dependable according to JD Power. The study released in 2008 ranked Jaguar No. 1 (for 2005 model year)in dependability, tied with Buick.

 

Good info ghost; Jag does better in longer term numbers than initial quality.

These are the latest new car initial quality problems per 100 vehicle numbers and Jaguar is not looking too good.

It's funny when Jag was number one in these same JD Power numbers the JD Power nay sayers said nothing, but when Jag is back to their normal bottom third the numbers don't mean anything lol...

Gotta remember to always for look term trends in any quality numbers as there's always wobbles...it's no coinsidence Lexus and Honda are most always on top...

 

According to that chart Jag is about 7 away from the industry average, which means the separation between what is accepted as the average (1.04 problems per vehicle) and what is reported for Jag is .1 problems... (1.14 problems per vehicle, or 114 problems per 100 vehicles)

Also what the chart doesn't show is the types of problems reported - I think this has been pointed out before.

And also, I (personally) refuse to believe that GMC has fewer problems than the industry average.

 

Go back over subsequent years and look for trends to see how GMC is really doing

You can go to JD Power's website to see the types of problems but its a level playing field as everyone gets graded based on the same type of data

 

It's stories like this that keep me going back to Lexus. Yes, any car can have problems but in my experience, Lexus has always stood behind their cars. They fix problems the first time without having to keep coming back.

I've had a Mercedes and after it got past 50K miles, it was a complete nightmare. I swore off German and European cars. Went to Lexus and have been happy ever since. Except with the driving experience.

I leased a G35 for a year just to have some fun, let the Lexus get a break...but I didn't expect what happened. I drove it like I stole it every day. Now I know the driver in me wants to be released.

I'm looking at the XKR but threads like this make me afraid to get one. I'm sure this one is a lemon and not indicative of most experiences. What bothers me most is the company not standing behind their product.

I would go crazy if I brought my car in and the issues were not resolved. They would hate to see me coming. I would be their worse nightmare. Problem is, I don't want to behave like that...but i will if needed. It usually works and has proven to be effective. But I hate having to resort to behaving like a mad man. It's not as much fun as when I was younger.

 

I hear ya Ice and completely understand...just wish Lexus made a looker like the XKR and wasn't priced like the LFA...what a car, what music that engine produces. Lexus like any other car co has introduced new models over recent years and they still remain in the top group.

It will be very interesting to see if Jag's initial quality improves with TaTa and the new F series.

I must repeat the dealer has done much to rectify my cars problems, it's just that the car has so many right out of the gate and they are trying to tell me some "are normal" or "most people wouldn't notice"... I doubt a significant mis/stumble at idle or headlights fogging over internally are normal for the 2012 XKR or any other 2012 car for that matter, plus there's other issues remaining to be repaired. I'm sure Alpine will get things to my satisfaction one way or another by resolving the remaining issues or a replacement car. If they fix the rest of the problems hopefully that will be the end of them for a long time; if not then it could really be a lemon...hope not.

Remember my story is apparently not the norm, but it is what it is...

 

I'm curious to see how they handle this "one last chance"... I hope they get everything straightened out for you. If not I would sure hope a call to Jaguar NA with a story about being embarassed in front of a car-person client would light a fire under somebody. I did a lot of research before buying my XK and I don't recall ever reading about engine stumbling, headlight condensation, brake warping or body fitment issues. To have all that on one car basically right off the factory line seems kind of crazy.

It just seems like such an outlier of a case, it would really surprise me if they didn't rectify the situation. Then again, its a little surprising that they haven't already. Hopefully your patience pays off.