Those sales figures that you refer to are from the 2nd quarter 2011.

Here is a recent article that was posted in another thread, and it shows quite a different story. In March 2012, Jag/Land Rover had the highest sales in their history.

Jaguar Land Rover IPO Seen as Jackpot as Valuation Soars - Businessweek

 

Good find Michael.

It's great their selling more (mostly XJ's) but they better get their quality numbers up or all this pre IPO hype/positve sales data won't hold for very long...some of the increase for TaTA was due to a 40% jump in the middle east for LR and 20% for Jag. But 23rd out of 27 in initial quality for 2012 and falling drastically from 2009 and much lower from 2010 and 2011, yuck

Come on Jaguar make us proud, now that you're finally turning a profit put some of the $$$ back in to real quality control!

 

These sales numbers show that the 2012MY was a huge success. Year over year, sales were up 29% from 3/31/2011 through 3/31/2012, and that includes the 2nd quarter of 2011, in which sales were down 27% for that quarter. So, that means they had monster sales for the last 3 quarters to make up the difference. Those 3 quarters would have been mostly sales of 2012MY.

 

and perfect timing for the IPO...

 

I haven't looked at the JD Power surveys in a long time because when I did I had little faith in them for some reason, and may have even read about why one shouldn't rely on them. I think they had rated some cars highly that I wouldn't be caught dead driving, or noticed cars they rated high for initial quality turned out to be long term reliability duds.

And I don't know what 23/27 means for quality, other than 22 other manufacturers did better. How much difference is there between say 10 th and 23 rd? Is it 12 cars per 100 vs 15 that have a problem reported within the first 3 months? That example doesn't seem too significant, so how much worse is 23 than 10th? I suspect that all manufacturers have vastly improved quality over what they were in the past. Has Jaguars quality actually been improving even though it's ranking among others has fallen?

And regardless of Jaguars ranking with JDP I wouldn't buy a new XJ based on the frequency of problems reported in that forum, the XF frequency of problem seems to be getting much better over the last couple of years, and the XK's reliability has been stellar. The only newer XK with a problem that we're aware of may have been quickly resolved by another dealer or owner. Either way we're talking about one XK. Horrible to be the owner of that one car having to deal with it, but it's still just one XK.

Now since a consumer is purchasing a particular model of car he is going to want to know what that reliability rating is for that model, and not so much what it is for other models. So, is the XK one of the most reliable cars ever built, is it the most reliable GT in its catagory, or is it a 23 out of 27 dud?

Bruce

 

I wouldn't expect the typical Jaguar buyer to be interested in JD Power numbers, because if they were they most likely wouldn't buy one...

There's a reason certain manufactures are always in the top 3 of JD Power..they consistently have the fewest problems. Maybe someday Jaguar will be there again and hopefully remain there; unfortunately they've got a long way to go and have been heading in the wrong direction

 

As an engineering major, we were required to take an advanced course in Operational Statistics and to get through the class you had to submit an idea to prove in the real world and then actually prove it. Classmates were paired up. Took all quarter to do the project.

My partner and I proved through years of data and real world experimentation that it would be *much* more efficient for on campus parking if the students parked next to classrooms/buildings rather than professors/faculty and support.

We actually got an "A", but it was not well received by faculty and staff.

Numbers can be manipulated in any way desired and can be made to "represent" some real world result/conclusion.

I am positive that what someone else on this board would consider a problem I may not. What the JD Powers numbers and other statistical mechanisms don't take into account is the "people" part of the equation. There is no way to account for emotional bias, personal expectation, etc.

 

You beat me to the punch. These numbers mean little to me. I know they can be manipulated. I've done it for years.
What matters to me is customer service.
How I am treated before...but more importantly, after you get my money.
Some dealers are better than others but the parent corp sets the tone.
I don't if its one car or 1000 cars, each customer should be treated like someone who spent a significant amount of money....because they did. They paid your price now stand behind your product AS IMPLIED IN WRITING!

Two weeks ago I visited the same dealer RJC bought his car. I went to the service dept to research ordering parts. Specifically lowering springs and aero kit parts. This guy was the manager and knew nothing about it. He said he was going to research a bit and asked me to wait. He came back but still couldn't help or answer my questions. These guys are not getting my money.

The Jag dealer in Miami also sells Infiniti cars. Two of the 3 Infiniti's I had were bought there. I also visited them. They didn't know a whole about ordering special options either but took time to look it up....but here is where they won me over. Everyone I talked with said, we will help you with whatever you want. They are further away but they will get my money.

 

I'll agree with you on the service; everything you said about how they treat you is exactly right. I'll add that sometime the dealership itself sets it's own tone and the Parent company isn't always responsible for how they are represented - but you are correct in that they should set the tone. There are good dealerships and bad dealerships.

Sounds like you have confirmed that RJC's dealership is not up to snuff.

 

Received a call this morning, the dealership got Jaguar to agree to cancel my lease. He said there are just a handful of 12's xkr verts in the country especially one's that haven't been sitting around and none in my combo therefore no replacement. So in essence my lease is being torn up and I'm free to do whatever I wish; the 3 mos payments ($1455 each) I made and the $1500 down will be retained by Jaguar. This is not as good of a deal as I would get if I lemon lawed the car as I would receive most of the $5865 back but my car did not hit the magic 30 days out of service yet. They still haven't found out what's wrong with the car and when I mentioned I've read a cylinder head may be needed they did not disagree; poor car

The dealer is telling me they haven't ordered 13's yet and they won't be here until Sept/Oct, so that puts me in a bad spot with no car until then. I'm returning the car tomorrow and I'll need to figure out which direction to take; suggestions are welcome.

Gotta give Alpine Jaguar credit for pushing Jaguar USA to move as without them I'd no doubt would have had to have lemon lawed the car. A specisl note on service: The Service Director Terry Springer is a stand up guy and too notch; Alpine is lucky to have him.

 

Great news!

It's hard to imagine you trusting any Jaguar now, and since you've found the JD Powers ranking supports your experience, I would think you'd be more confident moving on/back to another brand that rates higher. Your health no longer allows you to easily deal with sorting out new car issues, so I'm sure you're considering the choice that is least risky for your situation. You'd obviously want to choose a brand that doesn't suffer from the brake dust issues that you were so unhappy with, and that obviously rules out another Jaguar.

Bruce

 

That doesn't sound like that great of a great deal to me. I'm surprised. Is the only reason you're not getting a replacement the fact that no suitable replacement exists?

I love my XK, and I'm personally pretty confident that the issues you've had are at least somewhat of an outlier, but still. I think if I had somplace agree that the car was screwed up enough to void the lease, I'm not sure I'd be so happy about accepting "well we'll just keep your 6 grand and you can just buy a different one if you want" as the solution (unless I'm misunderstanding something). Thats just me though.

 

They could've loaned you something until 2013's come in.

 

RJC,
I don't think you got a bad deal. If I were you I would take it- just being able to walk away without any further negotiations/hassles sounds like a fair deal to me. You got unlucky with this car as it seems most people are not having problems with their xkr's.
I would move on to another brand. Maybe the new mb sl, porsche 991, mb c63 black series? I really like that new mb c63 Amg black series- msrp ranges from $107-125k- this may be a good fit for you

 

Thanks guys. My last lease payment is good through 5/23 and I'd like to see if can at least use the loaner until then. Yes they could have ordered a 13 and given me a loaner until then but I don't think they want to sell me another car due to the fact this recent misfire issue is not that uncommon and I could get another one; who knows what's the real story behind this issue/defect, maybe there's been a batch of bad cylinder heads and Jaguar themselves don't know just yet where it ends? They told me the 13xk's are not due till Sept/Oct others here said they'll get their 13 in July. Sounds to me they are trying to diswaud me from trying another car. Quite a few on the XJ forum have this very same misfire/stumble and most are living with it and Jaguar knows I won't.

So I guess it will be the new SL (don't know if the Porsche can accomdate my spine condition) and I'll have to get a custom cooler put in the drivers seat. Please keep the thoughts coiming and thanks again to all.

 

I think you got a fair deal. The only thing I would have told them is that if you do decide to wait and get a 2013, then the $1,500 they kept should be applied to a new lease. They should treat it as a store credit. After all, if they had a suitable replacement today,then you would have taken it and the $1,500 would have applied to the replacement.

 

With regard to the misfire, did you ever try octane booster? I apologize if you mentioned this.

Many of these misfires have been traced back to seasonal fuel mixtures...

 

I am happy for you that it has been reconciled for you but I am still at a loss on why you are singing the praises of this dealer and giving them credit. They dicked you around far too long. But to each their own.

 

No opinions on whether you got a good deal monetarily but I consider it good overall because you wanted out and got out.

I was at the Benz dealer in Pompano talking with David and he mentioned you. I was looking at the new SL but I let him know my first choice was the XKR. When I told him I was concerned about the XKR reliability he mentioned a guy called this morning saying he had been bought out and inquired about the SL. I barked out, oh that's RJC!
He was like, oh you know him? I let him know it was only through the forum but it's still a small world sometimes.

David was a very cool salesman. Kinda melow but knew the car well. I hate salesmen who don't know their product and put on a full court press. David was the opposite. I had bad experiences with this dealership in the past but this guy erased that.

As for the car, I liked it. Didn't drive it but I will.
It's lighter weight than the last model impressed me. It had plenty of legroom and the tech seems very competitive.
I also like that MB taylors their cars to your desires. They will give you any assortment of interior and exterior options, including aftermarket tuners. You want a Lorinser spec'd out car, they'll do it. You want the interior carbon fiber'd out, they'll do it. Want it lowered with 21 inch wheels, they'll do it.

Another customer told me he has owned every sport coupe out there, including Ferrari and Lambo. In his opinion, the SL drives better than all of them. I was ready to jump on the bandwagon until he told me the new 991 drove like crap. That's not what I've heard from several others. I'll just have to judge for myself.

 

Hard to imagine any new Porsche driving like crap. Not liking a Porsche for whatever reason is something different. I just could never really warm up to the SL though. Maybe if it was an striking and unique color combo, but they all end up looking like the Mercedes parked next to the 5 other MB's and a hoarde of other German cars.

If I were RJC perhaps I would give another XKR a go. Since he has contact with Jaguar USA, something special could be put together at a nice price. Maybe they'd be willing to do a one off exterior color or something? Why not ask and bet that is not going to be lemon. They'll be watching and anticipating the delivery this time.