That may be why you buy a car but there are car enthusiasts who are starting to buy Jaguar. The reason being is because they have finally gotten serious about performance. They now have a permanent location at the Nurbergring. They have actually announced that the F Type was designed with Porsche as their goal. That is a big statement and pretty much blows what you just said out of the water. Car enthusiasts talk specs. You can always tell a car enthusiast because they will know the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, the curb weight and weight distribution, torque and various track times of the car that they are interested in and the competition's specs too. If you are not interested in these things than that's fine but don't knock someone who is because they love cars and like to race cars too. They also like to argue about cars. It only gets frustrating when a true car enthusiast argues with someone who doesn't get it.

Just a guys opinion...

 

Go to the Jag website and you will see what the curb weight is. Not the wet weight or the weight with one person. I don't think I have ever seen a review that got the right curb weight.

It's kind of buried but it is there.

Cheers!

 

I come from a long line of P cars. I also lived 28 years in Germany and am very performance oriented. I have taken my P cars to the Dragon which is the closest fun road to where I live. P cars give me that, a purely performance oriented car. Nothing you don't need to get you around the corner faster. You get the best possible performance out of that platform with a typical German stoic performance, almost clinical. I don't know how much money I spent but somewhere around a nice GTI in exhaust systems on my various P cars to get somewhat of a visceral experience. Just cannot really get it unless you are well passed 4,500 rpm in a P car.

I do not see how a mordern Jag will match the pure performance of a P car. However for me to enjoy a P car properly I have to drive at the very least 2 hours to some nice twisties or in my case 10 hours to the Dragon, Cherohala and Blue Ridge Parkway.

I came to Jag for the visceral experience, the instant power when mashing the gas pedal, not having to downshift two gears to get it going and for the sound that the beautiful new 5.0l makes. What a wonderful engine that is.
What would sell me on Type R is just that, the responsiveness of the throttle, the uniquesness of the design and what sound comes out of the back end when I step on it. If I was looking for a track car it would not be a Jag, it would be a Cayman or an Elise or maybe even an Audi TTRS or something in that size or manner.

I agree it does not have enough room even for my wife and me to go on a weekend trip and I find the vents coming up silly. I get it in the XF when 4 vents close and give a sleek appearance but even the XJ airplane style vents would have looked good in the F type.

But all these things are absolutely subjective they are just in the eyes of the beholder.

I am sure down the road Jaguar is going to build a more track oriented Type R-S or whatever just to show what they can do.

IMHO the F Type was the right thing at the right time to bring new customers in and make new fans for Jaguar. Where else can you get 550hp, 500lbs of torque in a refined two seater for under $100,000 that sounds like somebody is tearing the asphalt of the roadway? An Aston is going to cost you $150k+ more for sure.

 

Yeah, I doubt that there are any people that care about the sex appeal or performance at all that don't look at some of the specs. This may be the case with very wealthy individuals that make themselves happy by spending money but not someone that is buying a performance car because they want something fast/sporty.

Car people love the mechanics and specs of what makes a car. This is why car enthusiasts are all outraged that Porsche went to an electric suspension. A non enthusiast wouldn't know what it was to begin with or why the should/should not like it. We look at the specs because we ask what we could do behind the wheel of said specs. Its the closest we can get to driving while we are at work or not driving!

 

Ngarara: Best of the day so far! Hilarious. I like the debate over sports car or non, but I think the point of the thread is about pulling the XK from the line. My concern (based on a survey of me) is that the F-type whatever it is, is not going to keep me in the Jag family and I think alot of other middle age folks who just dont want a car that requires that much engagement and attention to drive, but can still kick a little *** if need be. The F-type, the GTR, the 911 may weigh alot or be shaped like panel vans and have 3 rows of seats - I dont really care, they all require too much attention and engagement from the driver to be comfortable. There was time in my life, quite recently, when I wanted that EVERY time I got into a car. I loved to ACTIVLEY drive my car. I also used to date 20 something year olds as well. I stopped that a while ago too (although that part was more by some apprently secret decree than my free will).

I think a "sports" is a car that readily invites or even requires (ever drive a VIPER) a driver to be activly engaged in the driving experirince all the time (even if it has baubles and trinckets and wieghs as much as a house). A GT moves a little further away and a normal family sedan even further. Thats my unfied auto theory.

 

I just question how well the F-Type is working out for Jaguar. It's overpriced, and F-Types are filling up Jaguar dealers everywhere! I'm sure it was the same with the X150 when it came out, and the X150 was never a really hot-selling car.

Anyone remember what it was like in 2007 when the X150 came out?

 

Please don't tell me that you believe a manufacturer's weight claims! They most often fudge the numbers, although rarely as much as Jaguar did with the F-type. Magazine tests are far more reliable and every single one made a point noting how heavy the car was. It is over 4000 lbs, like it or not.

Albert

 

I will be looking very closely at the F-type coupe for my next purchase.

However, since you asked the question above, I must say that the just introduced 625HP, 3400lbs Corvette Z06 with all its high tech wizardry certainly deserves attention. It is said to be even faster than the outgoing ZR1 which, as far as I know, still holds the track record and VIR and just got edged out by a few hundreds of a second at Laguna by the Viper TA. By all indications it would be priced similar to the old ZO6, meaning high 70s, low 80s to start. I was extremely tempted to put my monies down to secure a spot on the waiting list but, decided to just "wait" and look at all alternatives.

Albert

 

I agree that the new z06 looks impressive. As far as pricing it looks like the most expensive model "z07" with stage 3 aero, ceramic brakes, cup tires, etc will probably be about $100k. Still an amazing deal for that much performance

 

Yes you can get that POWER for less than $100K, you could also get one of those GT Shelby's too. But please don't put the Corvette in the same category with a Jag. As I said "refinement" and power. The Jags interior compared to the still plastic dominated Corvette is night and day.
A Lotus Elise will tear up both the Jag and the Corvette on most non-high speed tracks. But that is not the point. I believe we can all agree that if it is about performance on the track the F type will not make the winners circle. And if I am looking for a refined performance car the Corvette will not be on my radar. Quiet frankly I would prefer the quality of a barren 911 cockpit over that of a Transformer Corvette any time.

 

I am personally going to own a F-Type R or RS depending on the RS additions. For a driver like myself that does not often head to the track the Carbon Ceramic brakes would just be to say...hey looky! I dont need that. We will see what comes along in the used category in 3-4 years .

Loth

 

I assume that you have not seen the interiors of the 2014 Stingray, say in 2LT or 3LT trim. Every bit as, or more, luxurious than the F-type or the 911.

Shelby is an engine searching for a better chassis and body. The new Stingray has electronics and suspension technology that are way more advanced than any of our Jags. Some of that technology, the superb Magnetic Dampers, are being purchased even by Ferrari. With those dampers, combined with the Z51 suspension package, you can set a lap record in TRACK setting and have a boulevard quality ride in TOUR setting. They are simply the best dampers on the market, bar none.

When it came to performance cars, I never gave much attention to the brand. Which is why my most beloved "hot" cars were a much modded Mustang GT and my two twin turbo RX-7s (still held into that one. 500HP, 2600lbs). Those cars, at their time, would beat anything on the roads and give me the ultimate street driving experiences that I could not have gotten from any factory stock sports car. Besides, it was alway great fun blowing away all Porsches in the Mustang and even more so in the brutally fast RX-7. Once I participated in a track day with the Porsche club and turned the fastest time of the day at Laguna Seca. At their next event they would not allow me to participate. Guess, stepped on too many Gucci toes...

Edit; my present RX-7 on my driveway.

Albert

 

OK, I'm going to nitpick here, but "car people" or "car enthusiasts" is a very broad group, and isn't at all defined by people who choose function over form.

 

I just don't get it. I already said that there are better track cars ....
The new Mustang is not bad, I believe it lapped Laguna Seca faster than a Cayman.

But I do not care what materials they put in a Corvette interior or any Chevy/GM for that matter. They find a way to f-it up.



Sorry but if you compare this to the interior of ANY Euorpean luxury car than I do not know why you own a Jaguar because it certainly cannot compete on the track with the Vette. I am almost certain that the Vette is better in almost every category, as is the GT-R but I would not drive one. That is the whole point.

 

Fair enough. Just as I would never own and drive a 911. Cayman, yes, 911, no.

As to the picture, not sure why you had to pick the most controversial available interior color. I would guess that some people like that color, I do not. I would take the Kalahari or the Sandstone if I had to choose. Still, carbon fiber interior panels and body panels, electronics to the tilt... you will not find those features on many much higher priced cars.

When I was on the Board of Directors of the Lamboghini club many years ago I wrote an article that exotics HAD to differentiate themselves from the Corvettes and Supras by employing carbon fiber chassis and body panels. Well, it took Lamborghini an other 20 years to get there, the same time that Corvette got there. So, how do we differentiate anymore between the prices we pay and the product we get for them?

As to why I drive now my 5th Jaguar? Certainly NOT for their top performance abilities. That is why I had the XK and not the XKR because they are heavy, and could never meet my ultimate performance goals as the above stated cars did. I buy Jaguars because I love to look at them, they are beautiful, and very comfortable (save my present XJL's ride issues). I love the plush interior of my XJL and the XF as well as those of the last to XKs I owned. They were great cruisers but, far from being the ultimate street performance cars. I would consider the F-type Coupe when I get to test drive it, if it also have the arresting looks with comfort and decent performance. I do not expect it to come close to the handling and acceleration of my RX-7. But, for my present routines of long distance street/highway driving the F-type hopefully will work well. The new ZO6 Vette might well be a car that would even be able to beat my RX-7 on the street or the track. That could be a mighty big thing to deliver with a plush highway ride and 30MPG, when called upon to do so. I do not even wish to know the MPG my RX-7 gets.

Albert

 

I don't need to be in "the fastest" are on the block; just the best looking and coolest.

 

That picture of the vette interior at first glance I thought it WAS an F-type. Thats how the F-type appears to me. Gaudy, slightly vulgar and tarted up for the sake of being "worth" almost 100K. A vette for 60-70% (used to be 50%) of that money would spank it and still retain that apparently pleasing transformer/angry robot look.

 

I do not mean to be promoting a Chevy on the Jaguar forum. But, it is an alternative, competing directly with the F-type in many ways.

Yes, I agree that the pictured RED interior is gaudy and vulgar. But, there is a segment of the buying population that will buy it. If you want something more pleasing for you, could try the Black, Sandstone or Kalahari (tan) interiors. If you don't like contrasting leather on the dash, go for the 2LT trim that does without it.

The competition seats on the new Vette are first class with good leather, or sticky suaded sitting surface inserts, and properly adjustable side bolsters. The only weak part of the present base Stingray is its antiquated 6sp auto transmission, which in the ZO6 will be replaced with the new 8sp auto/manual that is said to shifts faster and smoother than Porsche's PDK. That 8sp auto will likely be standard across the line in a year, or so. In the meantime, the 7sp, rev-matching manual is not a bad choice, at all.

Albert

 

yup. You dont need to work very hard to get me to see the vette's charm. I had the last (C5) generation Z06. Great car for under 60K. Tracked it like crazy. (cant drive for sh&t but had a ton of fun trying to learn) If you are interested in driving a "sports" car that will demand your attention to get it from point a to point b, but is very rewarding, I would absolutley put it on the short list. The XKR is just so much simpler, refined and 85% as juicy if you want to.

 

I just had to post this picture for comparison purposes: GM's vulgar red interior vs. Porsche's equally vulgar red interior. At least the Vette has carbon fiber dash, instead of plastic.

2014 Porsche Panamera Front Seats 05 Photo 4

Albert