This subject is always funny, because you're always gonna have those guys who say "you can never do to many oil changes". You can't win against them because they will always fall back on the "well it can't hurt argument" (yes it can). LOL. I will say this Jaguar(remember them? the company that built your car) stands to gain nothing by telling you the wrong maintenance schedule and they have competent engineers and most importantly they have the best real world data on their engines (exclusively). Of course dealers, the oil industry and oil change industry would like to go back to every 3000 miles. I am gonna follow what Jaguar says, as I have for twenty years. Yeah yeah I know "you can never have too many oil changes" (but Jaguar says you can)
BTW if I drive "severe" I will follow that schedule.

 

Ah yes -VVT. Way ahead of you.

I presume you know it's the solenoids and not the actual mechanism itself that has an issue. What the reported solenoid issues all seem to have in common is being on high mileage cars, meaning no 'crib death' events and nothing really on cars while under warranty or during mid-life.

The events happening exclusively on high mileage could indicate an actual part failure. However, while a few people have replaced them, the majority have found that the existing parts are simply dirty and can be easily flushed out in-situ. Some posters recommend adding a litre of ATF to dissolve the contaminants, others suggest switching to a lighter oil, still within Jags recommended viscosity range.

Either method appears to work very well, although not all posters have the courtesy to report the final outcome.

It would be nice to find that most or all of the events of 'clogging' happened on cars that were using the full maintenance schedule instead of the severe service, but that's not the case at all. There's just as many cases on cars where the owners changed the oil every 3K miles (cause that's what Grandpappy did) as there are on cars where the owners went the full interval.

There's also no correlation with oil type used, either dino or synthetic.


I guess you means pictures of engine innards. Sure there's pictures of neglected engines. There's millions of pictures on the internet of neglected anything. Aside from arguing with strangers and looking at pictures of kitties, that's why the internet was invented.

Got a particular case that you want to bring forward?

 

In the spirit of extending the post count, I'll add that I did my oil change over the weekend and am following the suggested 1yr/15k schedule.

In my personal case, I hit 12mo at about 8k miles, so I'm also kinda covered for both severe mileage-wise and regular time-wise, so I can be a fence sitter this time around

 

Slee Stack and GEOJAG are heretics! I say ban them immediately! They need to be burned at the stake for such behavior and tortuous treatment I say and their cars brought in for immediate proper care and love! Everyone knows by following the recommended schedule as put forth by Jaguar themselves that you'll quickly destroy your beloved engine as the oi will turn into peanut butter clogging the passage ways causing your timing chain to quickly disintegrate, your car will grow a tail, you'll write back checks, pretty soon you'll be listening to Nickleback, and you'll start putting your toilet paper roll over the back instead of over the front, these are just a few examples of what does happen when you so blatantly disregard proper care and maintenance. Following the manual, oh the horror! Even mentioning such terrible things will bring forth Mr Q&C who will no doubt post responses clearly showing videos of lawnmower engines that failed and boy scouts who took videos of blenders that failed and how a kid on his street told someone else about his mini-bike engine failed but then end that with "It's cheap insurance" and "if those things happen to you you'll be sorry and wish you changed your oil every first and third Tuesday of the month or 56 miles" because without facts you need FUD. I recommend that before you change your oil that you go back to the store where you bought it and change that new oil in for even newer oil because it spoils quicker than Cabernet wine, in fact if there's any way to put your Jag on an IV directly to a Jag dealer who only uses Jag labeled oil that would make the most sense. Changing your oil every year or 15K miles, what were you thinking!?!?!?!! ugh remind me never to buy a car from you guys

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ heh heh heh! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

What is it with all these extremes from you folks. I still invite any one of you to pull the valve cover off and take a pic, and I'll do the same on a 115k+ mile vehicle. We'll see which one does timely maintenance. Then you can tell me which one, if you were in the market to buy a vehicle, which one you would want to choose. I generally don't have to look any farther than the driver seat of the vehicle to see what kind of maintenance they keep.

 

What is it with all these extremes from you folks. Obviously a rhetorical question - you asked once again and here's the same answer as said several times the techs at Jag and most the owners here believe that adhering to the prescribed maintenance schedule which is clearly defined in the owners manual is acceptable and gives a margin for error enough so that we feel more frequent oil and filter changes are both unwarranted and unnecessary. Add to that there hasn't been anything resembling any sort of factual claims to refute that rather it's been hearsay (BMW Tuner says so, various videos which are not even remotely related to our cars, the oil used, the type of use, etc). As we simply asked for something that might show proof of that claim I was met with more and more emotionally charged berating posts that completely avoided facts or support.

Again oil sampling has also shown that the oil is well within spec (still retaining its lubricity properties, not contaminated with impurities such as water or coolant, the additives are still doing their job, etc AND these companies are stating that there is no need to change it sooner).

So on one side of the fence we have Jag saying it should be fine, backed with oil scientists/specialists using highly sensitive and accurate analysis stating it is fine, lastly we have no occurrences where oil has been an issue. there has been a couple occurrences of a timing chain failing but in no way could that be shown to be oil related so making that assumption is HIGHLY inaccurate.

On the other side of the fence we heard fear dealt out ("It is cheap insurance", "if your engine is only 10% this bad", videos of a lame UK writer doing a terrible case study with zero actual testing on his minivan, pictures of a Mitsubishi turbo car not saying which oil was used without another car using a different oil or frequency to actual get some sort of comparison - those are purely methods of doling out fear without any science to back it up so worthless information/noise attempting to use fear to bolster ones side. Arguments about dust suddenly being a bigger issue than it was when the techs issued the suggestions.

Give us a side-by-side long comparison showing support for your position then send that to Jag, when they come back and acknowledge that I'll be all ears, quickly admit you're right and I was wrong, but bring something scientific to the table rather than acting like a parent saying "because I said so".

Both you and Q&C, who I think is hilarious and great to have around, have consistently came after me telling me how wrong I am all I've said all along is that the manual and precedent has not been an issue, and that is backed by oil sampling, you both have come after me with emotionally charged retorts however none have contained anything from Jag revising their original recommended intervals. You, Box, tried to offer up that basically most ALL cars are now subject to "Severe conditions", which that again would fly in the face of Jag's intended and initial suggestions. I do completely agree IF the car is driven consistently primarily for very short distances not allowing it to reach and maintain operating temps for a period of time but that was a HUGE stretch to infer that there is more dust today than when those manuals were written some 2-10 years ago and that that alone falls under "severe" definition. Show us the wear and tear results you are either claiming or inferring here and contrast that with a car where the oil was changed per your recommendation...

Now you claim that you can tell right away if a car had it's oil changed according to Jag's intervals or twice as frequently, again that is doubtful but until you actually can show us that it is a hypothetical argument that holds zero weight and cannot be argued on either side of the fence. Of course for that statement to be true you'd need to have similar or same cars driven in identical conditions to prove your point or it would be about as helpful as Q&C's video of that minivan bonehead saying he and his wife think it may drive better. I've had a few of my cars, not my Jag's, valve covers off (one with 300K miles using dino oil only every 3K) and all were very clean as they should be and ALL have always been maintained to factory spec, nothing more nothing less. Have I seen sludge, yes, in other people's cars, never personally encountered sludge or any signs of oil-related issues with any vehicle I've owned but again anecdotal experiences means about nothing it is what we can replicate/prove with fact/support that matters. I trust Jag, I trust them more so being there are no known oil-related issues that I've heard of with the X150's, I trust the oil sampling co's too all of which point in the direction of following what Jag says will be fine. I don't pay your or Q&C's oil change bills so I don't care, not saying anyone SHOULD do one way over the other but I've repeatedly ask for anyone here to give us something factual that tells us there is a benefit to more frequent changes that what the manual says other than dealer/mechanic/oil mfg profits at the expense of the owner and in end results to no measurable betterment of the car. Don't know about you guys but I look at the dealerships like I do the dentist, a sometimes "necessary evil", sorry you dentists out there

Slee Stack and GEO - for shame! You should be embarrassed! You have some nerve... don't park your car in the garage as it could easily spontaneously burst, get towing insurance too

You asked...

 

Mods. I'm the OP.

Please, for the love of all things Jaguar, close this thread.

Thanks,

Rob

 

Ahh come on Rob you rekindled the oil wars, you should have to live with it now

How about a couple others on the best tyres and/or spark plugs? We may yet be able to melt their server.

 

You still haven't contacted Jaguar, even after I left you the contact information. You claim you want proof, yet you won't even subject yourself to a very simple challenge of let's look inside. You berate those who actually read the entirety of those conditions considered severe service, and then start the absurd claims. Like I said, contact Jaguar and then we can continue the conversation.

 

But we're just getting warmed up.

 

How come when I contacted Jaguar on this very matter, as per your request, you dismissed their advice?

I think your sole supporter in this thread has withdrawn from the discussion. If he's still lurking, the discussion about BMW's philosophy can be put to rest. As previously discussed, those vehicles have an oil life monitor that takes multiple parameters into account and calculates remaining time and mileage on a continuous basis.

SWMBO's car, by your standards, would have fallen into 'severe service' by two categories, namely cold weather and short drives. Despite this, the computer assessed no penalty whatsoever and in fact gave the car credit of several hundred miles over the printed 'hard time' interval. Of late she's been driving in a category that according to AAA (your reference) would qualify as another type of severe service. I'm still puzzled as to why 'long distance at moderate speeds' would be hard on an engine, but they're 'experts' according to some. After a half dozen back to back trips that would qualify, the computer has now assessed a credit of almost 1000KMs over the standard life. How about that.

 

Actually Mikey, I don't remember you ever providing any information, other than they agree with everything you say. I asked for the information. You refused. You couldn't even provide the number. I find that highly suspect, since I know what they would say, and the same has been reported by others who have contacted Jaguar direct.

Concerning the NOACK tests done and reported in a BMW group, you can discount that it is posted there, but you cannot discount the results. Nor can you use any valid oil test sent to be tested, to determine the amount of deposits left inside the engine by poor maintenance. It will only tell you information on the suspended particles inside the sample.

 

Your memory is selective. I contacted Jag with specific questions about the history and servicing of my own vehicle.

They confirmed that the 'free' maintenance included with the car while new and under warranty followed the 'standard service' schedule, not severe service. Had I insisted on them halving the interval as you suggest, the cost would have come out of my own pocket. According to Jaguar Canada, they do not consider the local environment as being severe. This philosophy stills stands today.

They also confirmed that all vehicles were serviced with dino oil and not synthetic- as per Jag policy. If I had insisted on synthetic, the extra cost would have (again) come out of my pocket. Later models of Jag came with synthetic so that's what the dealer uses on those, but those only.

It's all there in the OEM records if YOU want to call them and debate the point any further.

 

No, my memory is not selective, and the assertion you're making really doesn't go to further your position. I'm fully aware of the free maintenance plan delivered to Jaguar owners. I'm also fully aware, as stated in the documentation itself, concerning additional costs to the consumer. I'm also aware of the recommended oil, which is and was synthetic. That's not the question. Conventional oils, like Castrol GTX, were not used as initial fills at Castle Bromwich, (for MY 2003) as you have asserted. The same semi-synthetic used for all regions were used in engine prep. In fact, for MY 2004, Jaguar changed the recommended spec to full synthetic. Conventional oils do not meet extended drain intervals, in fact Castrol GTX has one of the lowest TBN numbers in the field. The recommended TBN alone for automotive use, should be between 7~10, and GTX, until recently, as BP, Castrol's parent company, has contracted Ashland to produce GTX stock, was at that time in the 6's unused. When an oil has reached half of it's rated TBN, it is highly recommended that you change it. It's why Castrol states that conventional GTX be changed every 3k miles. I still invite you to take a pic under your valve cover, and we'll compare.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/TBN.htm
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

 

But it is the question.

Jag Canada says that cars here do not fall under the severe service category.

Jag Canada says my car (and all others of the same age) can go the full interval on dino oil.

You claim that Jag Canada is wrong on both counts. Wow.

 

I still invite you to take a pic under your valve cover, and we'll compare.

How is that in any way proof? Different cars under different usage in different geo areas with different mileage, likely with different oils, perhaps changed at different intervals and you are going to make the claim that it IF there is cleaner valve covers it is solely due to more frequent oil changing?

I'd hate to have that type of analysis and conclusive claim for any drug/pharma companies I may need to use in the future. Perhaps you're right Box but that is hardly a test to prove your point. Not apples to apples

 

Mikey, what you are leaving out, is that using Jaguar's recommended oil, which would meet (for 2003 MY) WSS-M2C913-A A1/B1 (semi-synth 5w30) the drain interval extend no further than 10k miles/1 year max. Conditions not meeting this would be usage considered severe service, which one is cold weather starting in daily temps under 32F/0C. (Stated in the Passport for Service Maintenance) Ontario averages 6 months out of the year below freezing. Please go sell it to someone else Mikey.

 

The argument you just presented is self defeating.

 

Jag Canada says that such freezing conditions do not qualify for severe service.

Jag Canada would not pay for synthetic oil, only dino.

You, in your mind, have created your own interpretation of severe service. The question then is who has more credibility- the OEM who has a vested interest in maintaining the corporate brand, or 'some guy' off the internet?

Drifting off topic for this thread but you brought up the point- If I understand your logic that when using dino oil there's a cap of 3K miles. This means even the severe service interval (5K miles) is too long by almost double. For the entire life of my car, I've been doing only one oil change when I should have in fact done four. You'd think the engine would have died a thousand deaths by now.

In another thread a suggestion was made that you might be a shill for an oil company. Hmmmm.