Again, way ahead of you.

There's a fellow S-type owner here, also with a 4.2L engine, who has been sending samples to Blackstone on a regular basis. He follows the standard mtce. schedule despite his environment and usage falling under your interpretation of 'severe service'.

He uses standard, non-synthetic oil. Always has because that's what the owners manual says.

Unlike many motorists, he didn't do just a one-time sample, but carried out multiple samples establishing a baseline for his particular engine. Like many of us old f*rts, the concept of 10K miles on dino oil sounded outrageous. He's now looking for deviations from that baseline indicating either an engine problem or signs that the oil is 'done'.

Under your guidelines the oil would be finished at 3K miles. According to Blackstone, after slowly building up to an 8K mile interval, the oil is still more than just 'acceptable' it's fully suitable to go the full 10K factory interval according to them. Just like Jag says.

The car has around 160,000 miles on it at last news.

There's no evidence that his environment or driving style has contaminated the oil in any matter.

In looking at dozens if not hundreds of Blackstone lab reports I can't find much evidence of standard oil TBN falling dangerously low at 3K miles or 5K or much higher- when used in a modern engine.

Castrol does indeed mention 3K mile change interval but there's no mention of what vehicles it applies to. A gen 1 Chev SBC is the same as the engine in an S-type in their eyes. That's as useful a number as Michelin saying that all tires must run as 32 psi.

But there again, Castrol is in business to sell oil.

 

Blackstone, in their evaluation of oil, generally look at deposits in the oil, such as iron, aluminum, copper..etc. You have to ask, and pay additional costs to obtain viscosity, and TBN. Unless those were performed, the information you provided is useless to your assertion. How about you provide us the actual TBN numbers, and viscosity indexes across this so called span of tests. (You are not the only person around here who has their oils tested) Better yet, why don't you show us some of those "literally hundreds" of reports you have.

 

Loth what you and I have is not just VVT- that technology is a 'has been'.

We have torque actuated cam phasing. Our engines use the oil pressure to change the valve timing. Which is much faster than electric motors. Its what gives us lighting quick responses. Ford is licensing this technology from Jaguar.

All the problems you had with that car, tells me without the shadow of a doubt they used different oil than recommended. (before you owned it) Even oil that may be better, will 'coke up' in this engine. The engine was basically designed around one oil.

Castrol SLX that says engineered for jaguar on the bottle.

 

Look at this thread, for understanding what actually is done by owners. 1 oil change in 2 years. AND only 2000 miles driven in 2 years.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...essage-162342/

 

I don't even read the posts in here anymore, I just Read First Unread and then scroll through the rest so I won't have this thread highlighted as Unread in my feed.

 

Which the person obviously did.

How about you do a little research of your own so you can bring some proof to the table supporting your points?

 

Can anyone point/link to any occurrence of seized or otherwise damaged 4.2L/5.0L engines?

I'm too lazy to look, but I presume there must be at least a few since the concern to halve the recommended Service Interval is so high.

 

I left links to get you started. I'm not here to train you, unless of course you want to send $100 and hour, 2 hour min over at PayPal.

 

We are not talking about the vintage 4.2 engine with lubrication and fuel strategy that dates back to the war. I.e a wet engine. Port fuel injection. Standard cams.
This has confused many here. Kinda like digital tv and picture tube. They hijacked the thread with their needless worry or the lack of.

We are specifically discussing the 5.0 engine with technologies new to the world and Jaguar. Namely, dry sump, oil driven cams, direct injection.

Not Hilariously, the people here FOR enhanced service intervals are those who have had very expensive problems or actually own the 5.0. The only other person in support is master's master, who not only is an engineer with top 5 auto oem, but also a certified tech.

Both Lothar and I have had very expensive oil related problems on our new XKR engines with only 30K miles. Requiring engine to be dropped from the car.

 

I've actively looked for issues on the 4.0/4.2L engine, essentially starting at the time I bought the car over a decade ago. The 10K oil change interval seemed adventurous at the time, as did Jag's apparent indifference to synthetic oils.

In the intervening years, patterns of component failures have emerged, such as the timing chain tensioners, but nothing to do with oil change intervals or oil type. Seems that Jag got it right after all, and that the sky is not falling. 10K intervals today are common if not 'yesterday'.

As for the 5.0 engine, which shares a tremendous amount of technology with the 4.2 despite claims otherwise, the jury is still out. Essentially, 'the fleet' is too young to make absolute claims one way or the other. Few if any of the engines have yet reached their golden years where the evidence will reveal itself. By comparison, many of the 4.0/4.2 engines are way past 200K miles with no issues.

It appears there are no lubrication related issues involving change interval on the 5.0 engines at this point that would cause a person to credibly throw up an alarm.

If anyone with direct experience otherwise would like to speak up, here's your chance. We might all learn something.

Unfortunately, this clear request has been repeatedly blurred by one of the posters (who does not actually own such an engine) with claims of severe service conditions and premature oil degradation that are easily disproven.

 

The Problem Explained.

Its a compounding problem and a real design challenge. Unlike conventional engines, the new Jaguar engines have a ultra high pressure fuel pump on the timing chain. In other words the timing chain has to drive something very difficult to drive. Think of it as carrying a suitcase.

Just because of this extra item on the timing chain the timing chain has to be longer. Here is where the first problem comes in. And all manufactures with a long chain and fuel pump on chain have suffered this problem, so we know its as serious as tree full of owls. When a chain is stressed, it wears the links by an insignificant amount, for ease of calculation, say just 1/1000th of an inch. However, if your chain has a 1000 links, the stackup tolerance is going to be 1 inch.

No problem, the chain tensioner can remove the slack, unfortunately the chain will stretch more than the tensioner can compensate- here is why. The tensioner depends on oil pressure and its passages kept clean. When you dont have clean oil flowing freely on startup- you get chain slap and rattle for the first 10 seconds, as noted by many member.s

When you have chain slap at startup, you are further stretching the chain. And so it compounds till it skips time.

The problem is made worse by the fact that most of us ultra exotic car owners, i.e cars not started every day, start with a bone dry chain.

As I said, every manufacturer has been struggling to find a solution, no one has. So be very careful taking advice from grandad who has never seen nor owned a 5.0

 

Are you joking are are you unwell? YOU dont own this 5.0 engine!!!
Me and Lothar have had timing chain and cam phaser problems. The engine had to be dropped. We speak from first hand experience. You dont even own a bloody sports car. I have only seen more comedic irony on Monty Python.

For the record. I have been able to solve my problem by cleaning my engine by changing the oil 3 times in a 6 moth period. Living proof.

Thanks for the Laughs Mikey.

 

Speaking of irony, the person you refer to as an expert owns neither a 5.0 nor a sports car either. Possibly you should change your criteria to 'anyone who agrees with me'.

 

Mikey, something is wrong mate, perhaps you dont see it.

I dont expect my mechanic or engineer to have the same car, because he has something far better, an education and certification. Do you realize you have neither, the car nor the qualifications.

 

He does have an opinion, as do you, which you are both free to voice whether or not you agree.
Let's stick with the oil, it's much more fun.

 

Yes its very much about the oil. We are not questioning his ability to pass opinion nor judgement. We have entertained thus far. We are questioning his basis for discrediting our integrity.

 

As my local tech has said... the ole 5.0 engine EATS UP chains! Ive had my engine dropped 3 times over it. twice Ive had chain tensioner problems.... God Help us all!!!

 

Oh I dont know how to do the oil change on it.. lol. When are you using 0W-20? Let us know!! But it was the 5w-20 that ya put in 3 times/6 months that helped clean everything up though correct? anyone recommend an engine cleaner to be run through? the BG's MOA is an additive no a cleaner correct? Forgive me...based off my experience with cars from a techinical standpoint... this is like trying to teach a US Marine how to do brain surgery . Im much more informed then I was a few years ago though - trust me!

 

Loth,
I am going to stop by your place next time I am traveling through and show you.

I can also call the shop where you go and tell them exactly what regiment to follow.

Yes the Jaguar formulated 5w-20 will clean the daylights out of the engine. While other oils may do that too, you take the risk of burning them, making the problem worse.

Here are 2 things you can safely do to clean the engine. Run Shell's new gasoline exclusively and add Chevron Techron additive to the gasoline. Everytime you fill up. You absolutely will have to drop the oil every 2 months. Because it dilutes oil, but it works and is absolutely safe. (and thats why its used by many gasoline companies)

I have now done 3 dry starts from letting it sit for 10days. The noise is gone.

BG MOA is a cleaner. I am sure it works well, however I have no experience with it. The reason I can say it works well is because BG does a ton of research into finding ways to clean modern engines. They understand the problem. So does Techron and they have more patents and other companies using their product. I would not be surprised if BG is Techron.

 

BG's MOA is not a cleanser per se, however, it does have high detergent value, and is an ester Group V synthetic. It's load properties far exceed that of any type of lubricant. This is why aero-space industry uses ester based synthetics, but it is expensive. Marvell Mystery Oil is a cleanser, and lubricant that would be closer to that of Techron. And no, BG's chemical composition is not even close to Techron, again, it is a Group V ester lubricant and detergent fortifier. (BG's TBN is around 33, and when combined with your oil, increases the base TBN significantly)