I find it both sad and humorous that you would use GM as any sort of a bellwether to follow when deciding upkeep on a vehicle. If they're are what you'd consider a reasonable company, leader of good products or business practices we are very different in beliefs.

And once again I have yet to see in this thread, or any other, where anyone, in any way, has contested that "abnormal use would NOT dictate more frequent changes" yet you keep going towards that like a moth drawn to light. You're constantly preaching to the choir on that. I doubt anyone here is pulling trailers with their X150 or choosing it as their car of choice to venture on primarily dirt roads. Short hauls has been covered repeatedly with all here agreeing that that would in fact dictate more frequent changes so what is your contention there??? You keep bringing that up but no one has disagreed, seems odd.

 

I think if a person is truly honest, they would have to concede that they too, meet at least one, if not multiple conditions of severe service, especially if they live south of the Mason-Dixon line where 100+ days are frequent. I would invite anyone, to stop any of a 100 folks with a simple checkbox list and ask, "do you ever experience any of the above in your day to day driving," especially stop and go city driving if you live in a metro area, and that is the greatest concentration of populations. I think you'll find your answer to percentages.

 

Benz just recently had to pay a large multi-million dollar settlement in a class action for them not specifying their engines required synthetics in their engines.

 

Short hauls are usually considered frequently not reaching operating temps not "do you live in a metro area (in San Diego there's only a limited number "metro" people living here but that's a different story), you're trying to add words that do not exist in any of the manuals or recommendations. As for temps exceeding 100F, that is also covered in the specified/recommended intervals included in the owners manual where they recommend changing oil viscosity's NOT intervals. The subject of whether oil is exceedingly affected by changes in ambient air temps is a hammered-out matter of opinion just as this thread has been with interval frequency as operating temps for coolant and oils change very little whether the air temp is 26F or 115F, the recommended changes in oil viscosity are more so for starting lubrication when the oil is cold rather than that for once it has reached operating temps (not completely but mostly)... ICE are only affected by ambient air temps very little IF they are water-cooled, air cooled ICE are another subject so again following Jag's recommendations there has been nothing shown here or otherwise that would lend any credence whatsoever analytically/scientifically that would show different. If you are putting a considerable strain on the ICE, such as racing, climbing steep hills with the car loaded, etc that again falls deep into the discussed category of extreme condition. This is all hearsay unless you can prove the points, and that can be done by analyzing the oils from your engine, they can tell you if there's breakdown in any way (and no I do not have any affiliation whatsoever with any sort of analysis sampling company, was a stock holder of Valero but not anymore)... the color or smell of oil is anything but accurate in gauging how well it is holding up. As said, we have yet to see any examples of X150 breaking down due to oil related failures. Jag still recommends every 12mo/15K miles unless under extreme conditions, living in a metro area doesn't meet that criteria to warrant more frequent changes. Lest we not forget that those recommended intervals are not stated as "worst case scenarios" where exceeding will cause issues but rather safe levels still with a margin for error.

 

There are three groups of owners that I'd buy a car from, in inverse order of what I'd consider.

1. Those who change their oil on the factory recommend intervals without testing.

2 Those who change their oil on the factory recommended intervals for more difficult environmental conditions without testing.

3 Those who use the factory recommended intervals as a guideline, yet still test their oil to come up with a service schedule based on situation 1 or 2.

3 is the wisest choice, as studies have shown fresh oil is more abrasive in its initial cycle in. You don't want to change more frequently than required, and you don't want to change less often than required.

You, know your location better than we do. Australia has climates that fit within either interval based on your location. Six Months may indeed be proper. You could also go one year, but we can't tell you that from our chairs and keyboards.

 

The conditions for severe service have been around for over half a century. All manufacturers consider the same basic tenets to their use and descriptions. Stop and go traffic is clearly identified by Jaguar. Driving in consistent high and low temps qualify as a significant component. Sorry if you don't agree with that. What you are asserting is not much different than the assertion from Mikey, who stated below freezing temps didn't constitute severe service, when the Passport expressly states that frequent starts in temps below freezing do. I've heard the rational that we don't live in Iraq, so temps here don't meet extreme temps. Anything over 100+ degrees on a regular basis constitutes the opposite end of temp extremes in severe service. Leave your vehicle outside for a week and see what collects on the paint and tell me you live in a non-dusty area. Here in the Midwest there is dusty conditions 3/4 of the year. I'm sorry you don't like that, but it is what it is. It's fruitless to argue with you.

 

Come on Q&C - Benz just recently had to pay a large multi-million dollar settlement in a class action for them not specifying their engines required synthetics in their engines. though that is a lovey fact it is in no way relevant to this whole thread. Perhaps that may help people who own Benz and where considering running dino oil or might want to watch to ensure that their car receives synthetic instead of dino but not helpful here I don't believe.

From a BMW tuner.
We have always recommended to our customers 7,500 miles. We have seen too many issues lately (spun rod bearings on an M5 motor, timing chain issues on the MINI Cooper, turbo seal issues on the newer BMW motors) that we can relate to oil, oil level, and oil quality. With the advent of “direct injected” engines, we are also seeing a change in the amount of carbon in the oil. Therefore, more frequent oil changes are required. again, who is this tuner, what is his depth of knowledge with regard to Jag x150? Looks like you're grasping for straws just tossing stuff out there to see what may stick. I'm not looking to tune my BMW or Mini so his opinion on this matter is rather irrelevant, even if I was I'd research his basis of information but it certainly wouldn't be based upon what a "tuner" thinks I care what he KNOWS and can prove. Bring us something from a noted/respected authority that will show SCIENTIFICALLY backed information to bolster your stance that increasing frequency helps in any way.

 

Leeper, I made this comment, and it's just the facts. Owners blamed Benz for not specifying only synthetic oil usage when the failures were linked to conventional oil use, and weren't expressly told, and didn't have the recommendation felt their judgment was best, and when engine failure occurred, it spawned the class action. To not see, or understand the significance of it to modern engine design and the vital role lubricants play, in my opinion, is willful blindness.

 

You stated, "3 is the wisest choice, as studies have shown fresh oil is more abrasive in its initial cycle in. You don't want to change more frequently than required..."

Please cite the source for this. I think you will find every single oil manufacturer as well as automaker would vehemently tell you that is nothing but pure unadulterated bovine scatology. In fact it's lunacy at the molecular level with modern synthetic stocks. Synthetic oil doesn't work on a bell curve. It's downhill only with usage.

 

Box - completely confused as to what point you are trying to make there? Benz is in the wrong but how is that tidbit of any value to this topic? Jag recommends synthetic oil in the X150 correct so in the immortal words of the lovely Hilary Clinton "what difference does it make?" I don't care what oil goes into the Benz in question or who prevailed on that lawsuit when it is not a Jag nor does Jag recommend dino oil which, unless I'm mistaken, is the crux of that matter. Help me understand what you're driving home here please

 

The importance of using the right lubricant, as well as the complexity of today's modern technologies used in vehicles. It requires some rethinking of how consumers perceive their own bias in their experience of maintenance, and the repercussions of not educating themselves.

 

Point taken, from here forward I will not adhere to Mercedes, or any other manufacturers recommendation for servicing their cars when it comes to my car which was not produced nor maintained by them... seems quite simple and on that I think we all agree.

With your reference to "dust in the air" do you really think that when Jaguar, or any other manufacturer, wrote their recommendations that they were referring to a totally "dust free environment" or rather real world environment where dust exists? Yes of course if you're living in the dust belt like Kansas or a construction zone that would be an obvious exception but these recommendations are not for "best case scenarios" not are they the worst cases like your trying to use as your argument

 

Eureka!

Believe it or not, my next post was to ask if anyone knew how long Jag had been publishing a fixed set of criteria for 'severe service'. It occurred to me that when synthetic oils became factory fill some years ago, no additional credit was given for their reputed superior performance in extremes of temperature. Why not?

The engines and lubricants of 50 years ago were stone-age crude if compared to today's versions. Sub-freezing or >100*F would indeed be a challenge for the oils of the sixties, especially if single grade types were used. As pointed out by Leeper, it's just another day at the office for modern oils, especially synthetics. Hmmmmmm.

Jag is known to occasionally retain old outdated maintenance intervals (ex. brake fluid flush) despite advances in materials and methods.

Possibly this is why engine problems just don't seem to happen to the supposed 80% of owners who should otherwise be surrounded by a smoking heap of molten metal.

 

Obviously you simply want to argue.

 

Cut to the chase here - I asked for some sort of scientific data to back up Q&C's claim that increasing intervals somehow benefits me and others not just oil sellers and mechanics (I do my own maintenance) and he offers up claims from a boneheaded UK journalist's anecdotal experience in his minivan with ZERO substance behind it rather he used how it "feels" to him. He then comes back with the story from Car and Driver which was also completely failed to have ANY data to back their claim. Lastly he posted, and you took claim for the Benz class-action lawsuit which is in no way relational to our cars - different engines, different oil (yes you well know that Jag does not recommend dino oil in our cars). You then feebly try to toss in the mention of "dust" as though either dust did not exist prior to the recommended intervals were stated OR that dust is a new occurrence that Jag has failed us in not updating their initial 12mo/15K suggestion. Jaguar recommends only using a very specific oil which meets or exceeds certain certifications, of which none are dino oil so again how was your argument of either the Benz story or dust applicable or relevant ion the least?

 

I am not here to convince anyone who does not believe in changing oil more frequently, or someone that doesnt even have the 5.0 DI. If they have evidence that 15000 mile oil changes are fine on the 5.0 AJ133; they should post that info for us to validate their certainty. They should also send that info to Jaguar as I am sure they would love to know that.

Meanwhile; there exists a mountain of evidence from the TOP three manufacturers, Toyota, GM and BMW that they were wrong about extended oil changes, and have retracted their positions. Even as a half-wit I know that manufacturer is not going to lean on the side of caution, because these days they include oil changes. I also know that from "Sealed for life" transmissions, which any car fanatic will tell you is just playing roulette. Also true of the supercharger oil.

Furthermore, I have first hand experience of what depleted oil does to a 5.0 DI. Engine oil is a fantastic cleaner, I intend to keep my engine clean. All the rest is hot air from hypothetical academics. (and some whom I know to be tightwads)

 

Q&C that was perhaps your most relevant and accurate prose in this thread. My retort to that would again be that mentioning what GM, BMW, and others do still holds little relevance here, even more so transmissions are only partially relevant and whether you are right there or not does not make your argument any more valid. The topic was frequency of engine oil changes not when should I change out my tranny oil (for which I totally agree with you on).

Still as to Box's argument I'd welcome his responses though I highly doubt he'll chime back in, usually when someone lacks the ability to back up claims (dust, Benz, etc) they make a fleeting claim lacking any substance then leave the topic altogether.

Never in this thread have I ever said what someone should or should not do. What I have stood up for was those who disagree with Jag's recommendations please provide some sort of proof - so far that has not come with the exception of hearsay, rumor, inferences, illogical or totally baseless claims, anecdotal experience, BMW tuner recommendations, distorting or bending the meaning of "severe" as prescribed in the manuals, links to minivan drivers, fear-mongering, cliche's like "oil is cheap" which again hold no value, emotional outbursts and name-calling (not towards me but others) supposed second-hand advice from a BMW tuner, etc absolutely zero in terms of scientific proof, studies, data, anything of substance that should be considered when deciding to forego what Jag, or most other mfg's, recommend. When I've mentioned oil sampling you either ignored it or attempted silly retorts as "If I sample it I might as well change it" (that is not the point of sampling and you know that" or that it won't help me stop my passages from clogging or my "timing chain from failing"...yes and no as it will show if your oil may be at a point where it is starting to break down OR if there are unacceptable levels of metal which could be a early sign of potential engine failure coming (used in airplanes to show potential bearing or ring wear). There is also absolutely ZERO proof that more frequent oil changes in any way will eliminate or even assist in any way failures as you mention as you cannot show anything contrasting whether it is causal or correlational as it would take a study to determine that (a study like Jaguar and others do when they come up with the initial recommendation intervals and subsequent updates should they feel them necessary)

 

On one hand, a few want to focus on just the AJ133 engine. On the other hand, as the same few deems appropriate, other engines from other OEMs are brought into play. Very amusing.

Can I play that game too?

Given that the latest Jags with AJ133 have auto stop start, I guess that means ALL cars are now 'severe service'. Why does Jag still publish documents using a schedule that no one can use? Will they lose in court just like Mercedes for not being clear?

I see BMW mentioned several times above. SWMBO's SUV has a basic 16,000 KM or annual oil change interval for non-severe service users. If I accept the definitions of severe service as being presented here, her car qualifies under all of the lists presented, especially with the cold weather and short drive factors.

Her car, like many modern vehicles, takes vehicle information, distance driven, air temperature, oil temp, speed, load etc. etc. and calculates remaining oil life accordingly.

Amazingly, when looking just now at the mtce. info on the centre display and add how many KM's driven on the present oil to the KM's remaining, the total is 16,500 KMs. No severe service penalty at all and in fact a bonus for being a good driver I guess.

How about that.

 

Leeper you have lost the plot.

Can you provide proof where an infrequently used Jaguar direct injection v8 benefits from 15000 mile oil change? Thats all that is being asked of you. Why dont you defend your argument with a morsel of fact, since you think mine is flawed.

The burden of proof is not those who side on caution- they do so precisely because there is a lack of concrete evidence for taking the risk.

 

No silly, the car only stops when you stop.
This is why you should not dabble in academic hypotheticals. And then draw fantastic conclusion from them.