You make my case,
Why does it have that? It could just use a 'one size fits all' number.
Jaguar does not have that. A garage queen DI engine really needs that way more.

 

Leeper you have lost the plot.

Can you provide proof where an infrequently used Jaguar direct injection v8 benefits from 15000 mile oil change? Thats all that is being asked of you. Why dont you defend your argument with a morsel of fact, since you think mine is flawed.

The burden of proof is not those who side on caution- they do so precisely because there is a lack of concrete evidence for taking the risk.

ugh... the proof resides in there not being a single failure here attributed to oil failures, whether that be "frequently changed or not frequently changed". The proof that in most every single sample tested that oil, despite going to the factory recommended interval showed no degradation of its functioning property but I know you don't dabble in facts or science but rather what some BMW tuner says, hearsay from your authoritative UK minivan driver who professes otherwise as your bastions of knowledge so its hard to fight that. You are the one professing that mo intervals are needed I simply asked you for any proof to substantiate your claim and I got noise and clutter that absolutely without any merit whatsoever. My "morsel of facts" lay in the recommendation of Jag, who i have blind faith in their knowledge on this matter until there's new facts showing otherwise, other morsels are testing samples so that I can ensure my oil have not reached levels of concern, my facts lay in science, data, analytics not rumor, innuendo, and cliches tossed out (oil is cheap insurance).. really? Tornado insurance is cheap too but I don't carry that... insurance to cover my legs like Betty Grable got is cheap but I also don't have that. I opted to not get a service warranty on my car as the likelihood of it paying off versus what it costs doesn't add up. I LOVE to wrench on my cars but changing oil ahead of recommended intervals has not shown to help in any way UNLESS again the vehicle is used in extraordinary ways and those are pretty clearly described in the manuals (and no the fact that dust exists today does not fit into that category sorry Box). This train of thought of "if you can't prove I'm wrong then I have to be right is just juvenile at best, I never said I was right just that I wanted SOME proof that showed where Jag is wrong - what we got back was so loaded with air it is just sad actually.

So once again, please provide us with something that backs your claim that somehow people will benefit from changing oil out sooner/more frequently? No your UK knucklehead doesn't count, nor did your car and Driver guy with his VW story and ZERO tests count as any sort of authority, nor does your tossing out what a "BMW tuner"may or may not have claimed, give us something here to validate your stance or just state that it is your opinion and I think everyone will respect that you go on that and that's cool too. I know the guys at Jiffy lube stand on your side of the fence but they also hardly count as experts here nor does your service adviser who's livelihood is made not on your satisfaction but rather booking hours.

Good articles covering this topic that you will certainly dismiss as they are written by respected authorities and differ from your line of thought. I know, they can't relate to your car because their cars weren't the same color right?

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop...-your-oil.html

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...00-miles-.html

And lastly for you and Box this spells out what they consoder "severe conditions"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/07/h...ng-engine-oil/

Done with this, drop the mic, I'm out of this one!

 

Not this old chestnut. When I first started reading Jag's TOPIx 6 or so years ago it already said to change trans fluid (it may always have said it of course). You're a bit out of date!

 

Out of interest, can someone say why they think the engine oil should be changed more often due to living in a dusty area?

I can see why the air filter should be, and that dust might get into mechanical items, perhaps also electrical connectors and so on, but the engine oil?

Is it just a hangover from crappy air filters that let crud through? (Or using K&N?)

 

I believe the oil system is vented to account for pressure differentials based on rotational velocities in the crank case. Modern scrapers and windage trays cut down on the amount of change, but there is still a system that expels or pulls in air.

 

Well that escalated unexpectedly.
I have to say that a lot of the responses to my question are somewhat rude and indicate rather poor reading comprehension.
In the initial thread I'd obviously already read the manual, as I noted the manual's service recommendation of time/distance service frequency. I also clearly stated that I called Jaguar Australia, not a dealer.
Jaguar Australia recommended 6 monthly service intervals, in contradiction to the manual, without making any enquiry as to my location, driving style or usage profile.
The question was triggered by conflicting advice from Jaguar, in relation to a specific model.
Thank you to Q&C and others who addressed the actual question.

I enjoy this site, let's try to remember that we're enthusiasts, and keep it positive.

Rob

(One typo to confess to though, I bought the car in May 2014!)

 

It is fruitless to argue with you. If you don't want to listen to me, or the documentation, or the stated position from Jaguar's own website, contact Jaguar yourself. We can continue the conversation after you do so.

Jaguar Land Rover North America LLC
ATTN: Customer Relationship Center
555 MacArthur Boulevard
Mahwah, New Jersey 07430-9890

1-800-4 JAGUAR (1-800-452-4827), option #9

e-mail: Go to www.jaguarusa.com click on “CONTACT US”, then select on “Email us” for the online form.

 

I gather you're of the opinion that auto stop/start is not harder on the engine than just letting it idle for the same period of time. Even those with minimal knowledge of mechanical devices would disagree. It even passes the layman's common sense test.

I guess that why the opinions of so-called 'professionals' and randomly selected articles from the internet carry more weight with some.

 

All men know the 'three little words' that women love to hear. With discussion boards involving engines of any type, it's 'three little letters', specifically o-i-l, and provokes the discussions seen above. There's other combinations of letters that have a similar effect.

Hopefully you've digested all the posts and have sifted out the garbage.

I'm astounded that you were given such an answer directly from Jag HQ without asking for other info. There again, it appears that there's three different official documents floating around, each giving a slightly different set of criteria for what constitutes 'severe service'. The document with the most severe definition has been around for decades according to some and as such does not reflect what is required for modern oils and modern engines. Maybe that's why Jag gave you such a contradictory answer- they're confused themselves.

 

You missed the point, again. BMW does not consider our climate or SWMBO's driving pattern to be 'severe service'.

 

The engine crankcase is ventilated to allow cylinder 'blow by' to escape via the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system. Although the flow is almost 100% outwards, no unfiltered air enters the crankcase.

I believe the mention by Jag of dusty condition is another clue that the document is a relic of the past when very crude oil-bathed air filters were being used.

 

Obviously you do not understand the PVC system. As a closed system, all crankcase vapors are drawn back thru the intake tract into the cylinder to be burned. As far as filtration goes, an air filter is generally a 10 micron filter (the naked eye cannot see below 40 microns) and is the industry standard. Dust particulates range from 0.1 to 10 microns, as the industry standard testing currently stands. Soot is 0.01 microns. Please, before you try to speak authoritatively on a subject, try educating yourself first.

 

I thought you blocked me?

Where did I say that the vapours were not drawn back into the engine? Are you really that biased that it impairs your reading skills?

Come to think of it, Jag's concern might be with cars that did not have a PCV system but relied on direct ventilation to the atmosphere via a road draft tube. It's possible that dust might be ingested then. Road draft tubes haven't been used since the '60s. This is more evidence of the outdated nature of the definition.

 

What is escaping you, is that a filter that filters particulates above 10 micron, can allow particulates below 10 microns to pass, which in turn is drawn into the crankcase via the crankcase ventilation. I stand by what I said. Your assertions of outdated positions concerning severe service, oil bath filters or draft tubes have no bearing or relationship to the subject matter of dust, soot, smog or any other small particulate drawn into engine oils on modern vehicles. Please educate yourself.

 

In one way Mikey is serving a great purpose here. He is showing us how there can be misinterpretations when people give themselves the benefit of doubt.

The dusty conditions that Jaguar and every other car manufacturer speaks of is climates that are arid and the ultra fine dust in the air (400 tons in one cubic mile of city air) never settles. No air filter can catch this, it changes oil viscosity. No damage to an old chevy V8 that can run on the thickest oil. The new engines suffer miserably when oil becomes even slightly thicker than spec.

An engine ingests astronomical amounts of air, more than one actually imagines, so even 1% contamination really adds up very quickly.

 

Gents, Rob just dropped a bombshell. Sorry it is getting lost in the noise, so allow me to underscore.

No manufacturer is ever going to make a blatant apology or even retraction, they wont say "all owners of 5.0 engines, please reexamine your service interval as we just have, and we look forward to settling lawsuits from those who have suffered as result of previous suggestion"

What they will do is what BMW did, 2014 and beyond they cut service interval in half on all their cars. And ONLY informing the 2014+ owners. Not the 2013, or 12, or 11, that had the identical engine. Also of note; they too are dealing with the challenge of longer timing chains and added stress from direct injection pump.

I believe Rob was the canary for us. They are slowing advising the consumers who would cost them the most (i.e. car under full Jag warranty in expensive Australia). Thats why they dint care whether he drives the car like Mad Max or if its in Sydney.

 

Thanks for explaining how filters work, but I think even the most technically unaware already get it.

It appears that everyone is being lumped into the same basket of absolute lack of knowledge, education, experience and most importantly, common sense. This leads to a tendency to think that everyone will believe every pearl of wisdom uttered, no matter how outrageous. It seems that only one person actually does and that's his privilege.

What you are suggesting is that the Jag filter is inadequate as it allows <10 micron particles to enter the engine in unacceptable quantities which then cause damage.

If this was true (and never mind the absolute lack of evidence to back up your statement), why would Jag have committed such a fundamental blunder that affects, as you keep repeating, 80% of all vehicles? Would they not have just fitted a better filter? Silly OEMs.

I've noted as this thread continues, you are grabbing at thinner and thinner straws. I don't think anyone would hold it against you if you just gave up at this point. We could all go back to arguing about important things like nitrogen in tires.

 

"Would they not have just fitted a better filter? Silly OEMs."

Hey genius,

The best air filter in the world cannot remove 100% of the particulates. Thus oil changes.

At some level, air filters are letting 100% of the particles go by. The problem is that oil is not. Its catching every bit of it. And in a 5l engine that consumes 15,000 liters of air per minute at 3,000 rmp, its a staggering amount of material that gets bonded to oil. Some can be burnt of, some cant.

I am sorry for being hard on you. If you had humbly asked, why cant we make a better air filter, I would have replied- its not possible. A filter that could catch the micro particles in question would get clogged within the first week. The only thing that would work is some water based device. Thats where nature comes in. Thats why they say if you drive on dusty road. What they are really implying is the lack of moisture in the air to create those situations.

 

Well, no, not 'half'. They reverted to 10K intervals from 15K. I referred to that interval (16,000KMs) above with SWMBO's car. Actual field results indicate that 10K miles is overly conservative in most cases and that 12K would be 'just right'. Again, 'severe service' apparently does not apply to her car despite the awful things she puts it through. Today, in fact, she's on a long trip that would run afoul of AAA's definition of long distance at moderate speed. Let's see when she gets back if it helped or hurt her rating.

 

Personal insults will get the thread locked. Possibly that's what you want?

At what point would the particles be deemed to be of little or no consequence? 5 micron? 2? 1?

This is a rhetorical question, I already know the answer.