Good idea. (I know they haven't done it yet....) I've seen some videos on it and it looks somewhat time consuming so I'm hoping it's done right as that would drive price.

Also have read the threads on it here and it seems like there's no easy/obvious place to spray, as we have to be downstream of the MAF sensors, I think?

 

well I guess every mechanic there is should just go be a nurse then since they make more money and they so good at fixing and changing parts since they want more pay right?So when your car break down,it's easy to fix it yourself since you know what it's gone take when you left on the side of the road.With that said,Mechanics out here over charging people all because their salary is horrible and I guess people like you are ok with that.I mean they wouldn't have to do that if they getting paid enough and everything was at a fixed fee where you know exactly what you paying for so they don't have to over charge you.Btw half the time the stuff that shows up on an OBD 2 be more indepth where it's actually something else wrong with your car that they have to figure out and by god they might have to end up taking your whole car apart to fix it and you think they don't deserve the same pay...Jesus Christ guy do you know what kind of work that is??????????????Do you KNOW how many PARTS have to come off a car for them to do that and to remember where all that stuff goes just to put it all back together?I don't think you looked at a wrecked car before a day in your life to not be that appreciative of what a mechanic can do,cause if you was,you'd know the least amount of pay they deserve for doing that kind of work.Quit taking mechanics for granted guy

 

A lot of people don't really want to pay for REAL diagnostics. Most customers want lowest dollars spent, and shotgunning parts is a game that is cheaper overall frequently enough that they go for it. Some techs also just aren't very bright; there's relatively smart and relatively dumb people in every field. You still call the worst doctor in their graduating class "Doctor".

Smoke machines, vacuum gauges, coolant pressure testers, AC gauges, multimeters, OEM full blown diagnostic systems, etc. These tools all have the ability to diagnose systems in a way to prevent parts roulette. You can have a good amount of time before you get any actionable data though. I work in automation and if I put something in and said this *should* fix XYZ without root cause, mitigation and permanent resolution identified properly; I'd get hate crimed.

 

Sorry but it appears you have an agenda that I'm not willing to play with. Enjoy the ride.

 

Sometimes the most powerful thing you can say is ... nothing.

Dang, I just broke my own rule!

 

Well you shouldn't go there with me and I wouldn't have to drop a crazy list about why mechanics should be paid more so they don't have to go over charging people cause of that horrible pay they make and it's the only reason they do so.My lil bro knows a lot about working on cars and went to college for it and can fix my jag without me even having to take it to the dealership, and it's a shame that he don't even want to do that kind of profession because of the terrible pay they make and he hates the thought of trying to over charge people and having them broke just so he could have some kind of descent pay to pay his bills and make a living.It's really sad man and some people always want to act like it's no big deal cause that's the job you chose or it could be other situations just cause their life is going well,they feel they shouldn't have to give a flying ninja turtle about nobody else and can't comprehend the extraordinary things they can do that can seriously be compared to another job that makes more money that isn't nowhere near as hard ...COME ON MAN!Smh

 

Enough is enough.

You have made your point and the repetition is now becoming tedious. Give it a rest.

Graham

 

I avoid dealerships like the plague. I do understand equipment, time and expertise costs money, but when I learn what my friends pay for simple maintenance and all the upcharging that is done, it motivates me even more to fix on my own or find independent alternatives. Just the hassle of the run around and interchange you mention is enough to keep me away.

 

Sorry , but OBDII never recommends replacing a part. Fault codes point to a problem with a system, not a definitive faulty part.

It often takes a good bit of diagnostic time to figure out what part of the system is at fault, and then recommend repair or replace.
Time spent on Topix researching the fault code, looking for relevant bulletins and then looking for the procedure to repair or replace.

 

+1.

The upcharges the Jaguar and Maserati dealers near me have are insane even on simple crap. Swapping spark plugs on my Granturismo was a 1.5 hour affair taking my time, using proper anti-seize, making sure the coils were clean and dielectric grease was applied. $110 for the 8 plugs and $2 worth of diet mountain dew and I saved the better part of a GRAND. They try to get $300-500 for an oil change despite I can do it with the Pennzoil Ferrari/Maserati oil and factory Maserati oil filter that I can do with the same exact parts for $130. It's not even a hard oil change (4.2 GTs are wet sump), no more difficult than my XKR; which I can do for $60 in parts for 2 5qt Mobil 1 5W30 oil and a Wix filter that the dealer wants near 250 at Jaguar.

The Jaguar dealer for me is about 20 minutes driving each way; Maserati 30 minutes each way. I can do my oil change in near the same time on either. Often times they book weeks out, and between that and the travel time; many jobs are just more convenient to do myself, regardless of the gouging. I know a lot of mechanics, my dad used to be an exotic auto mechanic. These are cars, and the vast majority of the work is no more complex than a Toyota Corolla. Be slow, be methodical, and actually know how to troubleshoot and you're fine.

That fancy inspection-during-oil-change they sell you on? Flashlight, prybar, and look at some fluids. Not exactly rocket surgery to do at home.

 

This is an age old conversation and for the DIY folks they save real dollars. The cost no one seems to recognize is the overhead associated with the dealership. You need to factor in brick and mortar along with salary's and insurance . So figure out what your hourly rate is and then the overhead of your house and equipment along with various insurances and see what your real costs are. As an example what is your present hourly salary. At my rate when I retired back in 07 a 1.5 hour task would have cost about $143 . Now at my age 1.5 hours of my life are worth a great deal more then paying the dealer $160 for an oil change.

 

Comparing the costs of a DIY oil change to a Jaguar dealer oil change is like comparing apples to oranges.

You're not paying a Jaguar dealer just for an oil change. You're paying to help cover all of the costs to operate a luxury car dealership. That includes costs for the (1) building - rent, utilities, customer lounge, insurance, etc., (2) inventory - new and used vehicles and parts, etc., and (3) personnel - wages, salaries, and benefits - health insurance, vacation and sick pay, retirement plans, and employment taxes. And, of course, Federal and state taxes - income, business licenses, property (inventory and real estate, directly or indirectly as part of the rent).

That's why the dealer's hourly labor rate is so high. If a business doesn't make a sufficient profit to cover all of its operating costs and generate a sufficient return to the owners, it's not going to survive.

Unless, of course, it gets a government bailout. That's the American way! 🇺🇸

P.S. I wrote this before I saw jagtoes' reply, above.

 

Starting in the late 1960s I worked for several So. Cal. foreign new car dealerships as well as a couple of independent shops before opening my own shop specializing in British (of course!) . In every dealership the service dept. covered the operating costs of the entire property. I left the dealerships when they started dropping the commission rate to 40% from 50%, as it wasn't profitable for the mechanic anymore in my opinion. From my extensive experience in the industry, I have to say that , at least in the earlier days, dealership mechanics were far less capable than indie shop mechanics. The really good mechs frequently left, as I did, to open their own shops. In dealerships the mechs who couldn't fix or diagnose a problem on a car were frequently compensated with payment for a 'fake' warranty claim on some other car. In the indie shops you obviously don't have that opportunity, so you need to fix it or diagnose it or be honest with the customer and tell them you just don't know what is wrong.

 

They started looking at the car!
Delicious irony: I've had intermittent battery issues for years, and have in fact swapped out the battery twice. I'm sure there's a current draw somewhere, and have said as such, but they can't find it. But this time, they let the car sit so long they had to jump it! NOW they're "chasing down that current draw..."
Worrisome: they told me all this at 11AM. Typically, once they have the car in a bay they tend to move forward quickly... and I haven't heard an update since. (Hoping they're chasin' down that gremlin!)

 

Gots to let them know man lol

 

I don’t disagree with you and Jagtoes. I understand capitalism but I don’t have to like it. I’m not saying talent and intelligence aren’t required for the job, and that they don’t deserve to be fairly compensated but I don’t care for the rates.

That said, I don’t care how fancy the dealership waiting area and such is, and I don’t put a lot of value in the dealership facility being flashy, or do I buy into the lifestyle image that some try to sell. So I’m partially not their target audience and partially missing the point. I’m viewing any interactions there as purely transactional.