See even then its just one supplier that has 'press released' the info for their own publicity.

There was no public discussion or awareness on this matter. It proves how rapidly emerging and evolving our understanding is of direct injection and all its ramification. Its here to stay for one very big reason- it lowers cold start pollution dramatically.

Note Toyota and couple of others have scraped direct injection and gone to a hybrid system, where there is an injector on the port. Meaning even they (largest OEM) did not fully realized the drawbacks of DI.

Also these particulate filters will muffle sound. Wonder how that's going to work out.

 

I see now why my own searches turned up nothing. I presumed the new particulate filter was to purify the oil in order to reduce engine wear on DI engines -if indeed there is a link.

It seems that the new regulations and equipment does not address this issue at all but is to further filter the exhaust.

 

More confusion remains on your part. What contaminates oil is what is coming out the tailpipe: Abrasive soot, this time they dont want it in the air.

No such filtering is required on regular gasoline engines- just direct injected.

In case there is further confusion, some of the abrasive carbon (aka diamond) comes out the exhaust, some gets trapped by the oil.

Bad news for all the K&N air filter lovers- the air at your intake just got a lot dirtier and more damaging. bwahahahaha!

 

Thanks. Your previous posts were NO HELP in finding that as you FAILED to provide anything like enough information among the lengthy diatribe.

There are tens or hundreds of thousands of early deaths in Europe due largely to diesel pollution (NOx, PM etc) so gradually the limits on pollutants are being reduced, especially for diesels (VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda notwithstanding).

You may recall that the USA had some terrible pollution problems (smog etc) in the past that were addressed. Well, lots of the world is worse but often with things that are not apparent to the naked eye.

It's not exactly apparent (apart from one device maker's press releases) that direct injection petrol is a big problem - yet - or that such engines are especially affected by the laws but no doubt it depends on the specific engine. There again, GDI is fairly new here. If filters are needed, so be it.

BTW it's not usually diamond. Just small soot. It's very hard indeed to create diamond. Diesels have had lots of soot in their oil for decades and diesel engine wear is not apparently dire so I wonder if soot in a GDI engine's oil is quite so awful as claimed. (Which is not to say that changing oil more often would or would not be a good idea.)

 

I was confident you could become an expert on the matter and be able to correct us once we should you a page or two.

As per you correcting us that its "just small soot"; there is volumes of scientific research that cites its extremely abrasive and unlike any other soot we have seen before. Should we believe you instead?

(I have posted prior those research docs)

 

Excerpt from one research:
"The particle number concentration emitted by GDI engines are generally higher than conventional PFI engines and Diesel engines equipped with Particulate Filter (DPF). Most of the soot produced is expelled from the cylinder with the exhaust gases but a small proportion is transferred from the cylinder to the lubricating oil. Soot is likely to migrate into the oil film early during the expansion stroke [8]; consequently, the morphology, agglomeration and other characteristics of soot-in-oil are likely to be rather different to exhaust soot. Soot-in-oil has not been subject to oxidation processes to the same extent and hence the outer shell structure is more likely to remain intact. Although only a small proportion of the soot formed in the combustion chamber transfers to the engine oil, it contributes to the lubricant degradation. This is certainly a new challenge for the modern GDI engine as soot-in-oil raises concerns upon wear and engine durability. It is well established that oil thickening has a complex dependence on soot [9]. Various investigators [10] and [11] have shown that diesel soot build up in oil gives rise to increased engine wear rates"

The full paper: Characterisation of soot in oil from a gasoline direct injection engine using Transmission Electron Microscopy

 

Perhaps its my blondness but in a nutshell what is the issue here? Is it that directly injecting atomized fuel at a very high pressure into the cylinder versus intake manifold, for the sake of better power/mpg, that this is causing finer particulates in the exhaust, which are then fed back into the engine through the PCV and entering the oil damaging the timing chain and perhaps other mechanical items? Did I read that correctly? And that current oils are insufficient in their ability to maintain proper lubrication for the period of time/mileage that mfg's have been prescribing?

 

Thanks Q&C, looks like as I was typing you posted my answer

 

That's the story as of today, however the planned particulate filter does nothing to relieve the reported engine wear.

 

Well as I put it's not (as you claimed) diamond.

The point in any case as I posted is that Europe cares about HUMANS more than car ENGINES. You look to be confusing laws to help HUMANS with things involving car ENGINES. I put humans first and I was rather hoping you'd notice. Whatever the PM (be it soot or "diamond") does to the oil is to me of much lower importance. If it does bad things then don't buy an engine that creates that kind of stuff.

Engine makers usually do extensive testing so serious wear caused by these particles ought to have been found long before any were sold... Odd.

 

JagV8;


You should go back to the original post to learn what this thread is about. Very simply, a law goes into effect next year to reduce the emission of this "crap" into the air. The oil also collects this "crap" and the so the author recommends changing oil more frequently than the factory recommends. Now that was not so complex, was it?

 

I don't want to dispute this, as it probably has the same result, but from what little I've read, what goes into effect next year (in Europe) is not any change in terms of the amount of allowable crap (i.e. no change in the numbers), but how they test for it.
Currently manufacturers can use lab tests to show they are compliant. Next year they have to pass 'real world' tests, on the road. Apparently lab tests don't show how much can get released under actual driving conditions.

 

You don't think manufacturers would cheat on their numbers do you?

 

This sounds like the VW end around (which as of this week now includes many more models after they reached a supposed settlement) will be universal in terms of skating emissions

 

Manufacturers are famous for hiding problems they knew about....
In this case its worse, despite being out for a decade, the entire industry is only just discovering how they work.

It behooves us to act accordingly.

 

There is an upside to this in the employment numbers, as the manufacturers are going to have a huge demand for 'little old lady' test drivers, an untapped segment of the market.
Need to tell my mom to get ready for when these same tests come to America.

 

Please Note: Ever since I raised this alarm over a year ago, more and more evidence has come out to support my alarm and none against it.
The oil industry has changed its regulations mandating oil now state its wear factor to these carbon nano-particles.
Umpteen manufacturers have changed their oil change specs. Including the largest, Toyota.
The emissions guys have demanded and got the invention of a filtration device.

The delusional dissenters should at least acknowledge that if not for my alarms they would not even have known any of this was going on. And I speak from experience of having a Direct Injection and wear problems.

 

Yes the actual driving test is a Farce!!

We have been paying them millions in tax dollars and only now they are going to do what they were charging us for.

Its like a health inspector saying they will actually try to order from the menu.

 

"Follow the money"... auto lobby groups have massive power and money... any question about that just think back a couple years ago to the GM bail out scam. They will do anything/everything to make money ethics/legalities/morality is not a concern

 

So is the recommendation still every 3000,4000, or 5000 mile oil changes?? Is everyone still using 5w-20 or 0w-20????