Even though this was a fairly interesting read it doesn't have any impact on my driving or servicing. I'll stay with once a year oil service which in my case is between 3000 an 4000 miles. As far as the brand I'll stay with the Jag recommendation in oil and filter. This isn't a concern for the way I drive.

 

What type of "wear problems" and how many miles when they occured?

 

The reason JLR switched from 5w-20 to 0w-20 is probably because they originally thought the reason for the chain wear was tensioners being starved of oil at start-up. Which they were- but the reason they were is because the chain got longer and they had to push harder to maintain tension.

I would use the new recommendation if I was out of warranty period. They are using it on the Range Rover 5.0 SC, so robustness is not an issue.

I feel 5000 miles is the furthest I am pushing it with city driving.

 

Elongated timing chain- 40,000 miles. Naturally it must have been out of specification long before then, by the time you can hear it in the cabin, its really progressed, even then you have to have a good ear capable of hearing the high frequencies- by the time the error code is thrown for it on the dash- you are a f'ed monkey.

But you dont have a DI right?

 

Is there really a difference between looking for answers on Google, or any other search engine, versus looking for them in your owner's manual?

Jay
99XK8

 

Yes, everything you read on the internet is true.

 

Is that true

 

I read it on the internet, so it must be.

 

This engine appears utterly useless. How is it suggested that its maker failed to find this out during testing i.e. long before putting it into cars and selling them?

 

I will now tear my engine out and scrap it.

 

Thats not how manufacturing/ engineering works. You dont invent the perfect tire or perfect plane, or software or anything else for that matter. You invent something release it and only then do the gremlins appear and you redesign.

If ANYONE could have foreseen the nano-particulate problem a decade ago when the engines were effectively hitting the mass market- they would have become instant billionaires by designing a particulate filter that would be mandated by law.

Little known by consumers, manufacturers dont have a way of testing a product the way consumers do. It would take an army of testers and 5 years. Neither is economically feasible. You can have the best drug trials, software stress testing, ultimately its the consumers who are the best guinea pigs.

 

I think you have inhaled too many nano particles. Obviously they enter the bloodstream, get filtered out in the brain, where they cause mayhem.

 

Given the period of time this engine series has been in production and the severity of the issue, I would have expected to see far more complaints about this. I think there's only been two so far?

 

Not true, you would not have kept up with all that goes on in the 5.0 world, if you did there is a different problem. Many have experienced the problem, especially if you go over to the RR5.0 blogs- its a known issue. Even here we have had members who turned down the sale of a car when they heard it at start-up at a dealership. The problem being that it will only do it at cold start and then for 5 seconds. Most would never hear it from inside the car.

Besides this is not about finding the problem, but avoiding it with a little prudence.

 

Unfortunately we are assuming issues based on hear say posts on various blogs. Considering there are 10's of thousands of DI engines from various brands and insufficient creditable data being published. I'd like to see some failure rates per lets say a thousand units that have experienced this issue. It also seems more companies are getting into the DI engines so it's just a matter of time to see.

 

Again my post is not for the worry-wots to think their car is going to break, nor for the delusion uber drivers just looking for a healthy debate while waiting for their next fare.

This is for the perfectionist owners, the lovers, the one's in it for long haul looking for every ounce of care for their baby. To them and only them I present this piece of evidence, dont be alarmed by it, please! because there is nothing worse than worry robbing one of enjoyment- its worse than the actual event occurring. Here you will see RR owners having these timing chain problems with our same engine, the difference is that the pool is larger there, so it exposes the issue better.
2011 Timing chain shot at 44k miles?

 

If you take the DI engine as a whole from all manufacturers, there has been extraordinary amounts of failures. Honda has suffered badly, GM issued recalls, Toyota halved the oil change interval, as did BMW. The most important aspect is that the DI timing chain wear problem has now been incorporated into the Oil standards regulations.

BUt here is the findings from a scientific study
"Oil thickening was found to enhance timing chain elongation due to abrasive action of soot on pins and bushing"
Characterisation of soot in oil from a gasoline direct injection engine using Transmission Electron Microscopy

 

I agree that this would be very helpful, but who is going to gather and publish this information? Certainly not auto manufacturers. This problem could well fall within what we lawyers define as a "design defect". If so, this would put manufacturers at risk for product liability suits; which are not limited by the manufacturers warranty period.


It is in the manufacturers best interest to say and do as little as possible. Something like sticking their respective heads in the sand and hope it goes away.


I notice a number of the skeptics don't seem to own DI cars; so I'm not sure I understand your position. For those of us who do own DI cars; this is a word of warning. For one, I'm going to follow a 5k mi. or every Spring oil change interval. Not very expensive, and I can't see any negative that can come from that schedule.

 

I may (or may not) today but it would certainly be in my future. I'm not sure I understand the position of those who think only those who presently own one would have an interest or have anything to say.

 

Rob its precisely why I entertain skeptics because its illuminating to see how many actually believe that Manufacturers will be forthcoming, retroactively no less.

JLR changed the oil specs on our engine and none of us got the memo. (went from 5-w20 to 0w-20) Because they did not do it saying ' we had it wrong previously' they did it saying 'this is what we find to work better from here on'. So they took no responsibility for 5.0 engines prior to 2012.