Top end rattle 2007 XK
#1
Top end rattle 2007 XK
2007 XK 4.2 NA 90,000 miles
Not sure if I'm being paranoid, car had't been started for a week in the cold weather. I started it and flipped open the bonnet while waiting for it to get up to temperature. When the coolant temp got to about 50 deg C I noticed a strange noise. Took it to my local garage to have a look but by then the engine had warmed up and the rattle had disappeared.
I did another cold start this morning and same rattle started as coolant temp got to around 50 c. Attached video is with engine cover removed. The noise is most noticeable on the top left side (facing forward).
Is it the tappets or something more serious like timing chain?
Oil level is midway and oil condition is good. The noise is not noticeable inside the car, or with the bonnet shut.
You advice would be really appreciated!
Not sure if I'm being paranoid, car had't been started for a week in the cold weather. I started it and flipped open the bonnet while waiting for it to get up to temperature. When the coolant temp got to about 50 deg C I noticed a strange noise. Took it to my local garage to have a look but by then the engine had warmed up and the rattle had disappeared.
I did another cold start this morning and same rattle started as coolant temp got to around 50 c. Attached video is with engine cover removed. The noise is most noticeable on the top left side (facing forward).
Is it the tappets or something more serious like timing chain?
Oil level is midway and oil condition is good. The noise is not noticeable inside the car, or with the bonnet shut.
You advice would be really appreciated!
Last edited by Chris77; 12-11-2022 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Upload video
#2
Chris,
I'm not clear whether you are suggesting the engine is quiet on initial cold start and the noise then develops as it warms OR the if noise is present on cold start and disappears as it warms .......
The cooling system is low volume/high flow rate to promote rapid warmup but will be taking a couple of minutes to rise on the cold mornings we've had in England this week.
Are you using an OEM filter or aftermarket? Several aftermarket filters that FIT don't have the internal non-return valve which prevents drain back so the pump has to first fill the filter on a cold start before oil pressure builds and this often causes valve or timing chain rattle.
However, if I had any doubts about timing chains or tensioners, I'd do a visual inspection a.s.a.p. as the consequences of failure are usually terminal.
Graham
I'm not clear whether you are suggesting the engine is quiet on initial cold start and the noise then develops as it warms OR the if noise is present on cold start and disappears as it warms .......
The cooling system is low volume/high flow rate to promote rapid warmup but will be taking a couple of minutes to rise on the cold mornings we've had in England this week.
Are you using an OEM filter or aftermarket? Several aftermarket filters that FIT don't have the internal non-return valve which prevents drain back so the pump has to first fill the filter on a cold start before oil pressure builds and this often causes valve or timing chain rattle.
However, if I had any doubts about timing chains or tensioners, I'd do a visual inspection a.s.a.p. as the consequences of failure are usually terminal.
Graham
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Sean W (12-14-2022)
#4
Have the engine oil and filter changed before doing any further diagnosis. Use a Jaguar filter to avoid drain back.
If the noise persists after the oil has been changed, remove the cam cover and inspect the secondary timing chain tensioner and tappet clearances. I have encountered broken secondary timing chain tensioners on the AJ33.
If the noise persists after the oil has been changed, remove the cam cover and inspect the secondary timing chain tensioner and tappet clearances. I have encountered broken secondary timing chain tensioners on the AJ33.
#6
I have read that the Motorcraft FL 2021 is the same as the OEM filter.... Agree / disagree??
#7
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#8
Use Mahle, Mann or Bosch. The rest range from damifiknow to absolute **** (thinking of you, Fram....) Or buy Jag's, which I think is Mahle. Could be wrong, but it sure as hell ain't Fram.
As to Motorcraft, it's well regarded in this review https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/best-oil-filter/. Made by Purolator. Rockauto has it for $4.50. But then it has Bosch for 5.50 or so.
As to Motorcraft, it's well regarded in this review https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/best-oil-filter/. Made by Purolator. Rockauto has it for $4.50. But then it has Bosch for 5.50 or so.
Last edited by panthera999; 12-13-2022 at 09:50 PM.
#9
Are you using an OEM filter or aftermarket? Several aftermarket filters that FIT don't have the internal non-return valve which prevents drain back so the pump has to first fill the filter on a cold start before oil pressure builds and this often causes valve or timing chain rattle.
Graham
Graham
#10
#11
Looking at the workshop manual for the 4.2 engine the horizontally fitted filter looks to be level with the bottom of the sump & the oil pump is fitted fitted on the front of the crankshaft, which is higher than the filter, so an anti drain back valve seems somewhat redundant?
#12
Are you using an OEM filter or aftermarket? Several aftermarket filters that FIT don't have the internal non-return valve which prevents drain back so the pump has to first fill the filter on a cold start before oil pressure builds and this often causes valve or timing chain rattle.
Graham
Graham
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Redal (12-23-2022)
#13
Its the VVT pin. My 2008 RRS with the AJV8 has been doing this for 4 years straight. Ill eventually replace the entire VVT system. The best way to prevent this from ever happening is oil changes done at the right intervals before it happens. Ive done all I could, filters, oil treatments, different viscosities, and short of installing an pressure priming system. I can explain more if it interests you, but it happens on the AJV8 more often than reported.
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Gas turbine (12-17-2022)
#14
I have a Triton motor in my f 250 which has the typical tensioner issue where the seal fails and the oil leaks by causing the dreaded "startup rattle".
I have found that if I jog the motor quickly and wait 15 or 20 seconds for the oil to get up to the top before actually starting it, I can avoid the rattle. Is there any way to jog the motor with the brake pedal/push button start up? I would like to be able to do that just for good measure after longer periods of not starting it or winter storage.
I have found that if I jog the motor quickly and wait 15 or 20 seconds for the oil to get up to the top before actually starting it, I can avoid the rattle. Is there any way to jog the motor with the brake pedal/push button start up? I would like to be able to do that just for good measure after longer periods of not starting it or winter storage.
#15
Unlike the 5.0 engine where the filter is fitted upside down at the top of the engine the oil in it will drain out through the crankshaft journals & it will need to be refilled when the engine is started before oil pressure builds so again an anti flowback valve is redundant.
#16
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Gas turbine (12-17-2022)
#18
The point I was making is that with the the filter on the 4.2 engine being below the crankshaft it's not going to drain empty when the engine is stationary, so Graham's point of a filter without an anti flowback valve means it has to be refilled on starting the engine before oil pressure builds isn't valid.
#19
I haven’t driven it far, but it did seem to clear once the engine is fully warmed up.
I had the oil and filter replaced today and specked oem filter.
a very cold morning again this morning - the engine starts quietly, then as coolant temp ties to about 30c I get a loud click every few minutes and the tappet noise starts, then at about 55c it quietens. At 70c it came back again!
I have captured another two short videos:
1. There is a loud click at 4 seconds in… this happens every couple of minutes as the engine is warming
2. The tappet noise is clearly audible when car is up to 70c, I didn’t drive it so probably not fully warmed up.
Is the VVT pin a serious issue? Should I avoid driving until I can get it fixed?
I had the oil and filter replaced today and specked oem filter.
a very cold morning again this morning - the engine starts quietly, then as coolant temp ties to about 30c I get a loud click every few minutes and the tappet noise starts, then at about 55c it quietens. At 70c it came back again!
I have captured another two short videos:
1. There is a loud click at 4 seconds in… this happens every couple of minutes as the engine is warming
2. The tappet noise is clearly audible when car is up to 70c, I didn’t drive it so probably not fully warmed up.
Is the VVT pin a serious issue? Should I avoid driving until I can get it fixed?
Last edited by Chris77; 12-17-2022 at 04:21 AM. Reason: Noticed a contradiction