Anybody having fuel system issues with using ethanol fuel?

 

Sorry, Fastlane, I can't recall what model you have (hint: put it in a sig) - if you have a 5.0, the manual says no more than 10% ethanol. There is a specific warning about high-ethanol fuel:

The only other comment is that ethanol blends may have lower octane levels than normal unleaded, so there may be some loss of performance.

 

I've been using E10 in all my vehicles for 20+ years. Never a problem.

Beware the mythsayers and misconceptions.

 

^^^

that is one personally observed datapoint and not the world as a whole.

of course those on JF who have had fuel pumps die and those who have owned vehicles recalled for fuel rails pinholed by ethanol would say that there is a certain amount of wilful blindness going on.

 

08 XK. Those of us in the boating community are seeing issues. I guess I'm wondering about Material of construction and the effects ethanol has on them.

 

Boats have problems for very specific reasons, none of which are applicable to modern cars.

 

Ethanol has less btu's per gallon then gasoline.

 

Correct. E10 gas has 97% of the energy of pure gas. Expect a 3% reduction is fuel mileage.

 

My boat goes 51 knots (about 60 mph) on real gas and only hits 46 knots on ethanol blend. I don't think energy density is a boat specific reason to prefer real gasoline.

 

Jaguar calls ethanol an "oxygenate" in the owners manual.

Here is the weasel clause that might only catch the attention
of a lawyer with a minor in chemistry:

 

good spotting. I use pure-gas.org to find ethanol free fuel. Not only is my boat faster and more responsive but my cars get significantly better mileage using it and my Moto Guzzi runs much better on it too. There have also been plastic gas tank swelling issues relates to ethanol noted on the Guzzi forum which is what got me started on it. The lower exhaust gas and cylinder head temps are enough of a reason for me to prefer it without the power and fuel economy benefits.

 

Well, the leisure craft forums are filled with commentary on ethanol.

One of the parallel things where it is critical knowledge to Jaguar owners is the
question of storage. Jaguars often go into storage whereas other vehicles are
likely to be driven year round. That's where some Jaguars become more like
boats.

Try plugging ETHANOL PHASE SEPARATION into a search engine.

As for better mileage, yes that is true and you should not feel extravagant
about it. A segment of the hypermiling crowd pays attention to MPD(miles per dollar)
rather than MPG(miles per gallon). The refiners play games with pricing models
based on energy content. That segment of the hypermiling crowd understands this
and have gone to MPD tracking. In effect, you can have your cake and eat it too
since you go the same number of miles for the same expenditure. Only you get to
use your fuel of choice.

 

I can not remember having any problems with E10 on any of my cars from the 76 XJS , Ferrari 308 and 89 Volvo. My newer cars were built long after E10 was introduced so I would not suspect any issues. Although it may effect components it has not been my experience. By the way I stored my old 308 over the winter and did not use stabl and never had a problem with the fuel system and the 4 weber carbs.

 

It's been a few days since we had this discussion

My conclusion is that *using* E10 seems very unlikely to cause any problems. IF a problem were to occur it would most likely happen in a *storage* situation in a high moisture environment.

Personally I've had no problems in 20+ years of using E10.....in either driving or storing.

Cheers
DD

 

I think the topic has become rather 'yesterday' on most car forums now that people have had a few years' experience and realize that the widespread 'sky is falling' fears were pretty much unfounded.

There are those that still blame every problem on the removal of lead from fuel. No wait, that's really yesterday. I'm dating myself, I meant usage of ethanol.

As to the promotion of the idea that length of storage is a factor, I live in an area where there's a large number of summer toys that get stored for six-ish months over the winter while at the same time, the winter toys get stored over the six-ish months of summer.

Aside from the crowd that has always had problems irrespective of what fuel they use primarily due to their own poor storage habits, E10 is a non-issue here. For those that like to point at the boating hobby as 'proof', please go look up the history of Seafoam to see why it was developed.

 

I think those who have not had fuel system issues in old cars using ethanol have been lucky. Maybe in their market the blend had a lower percentage of ethanol.

Here in the Seattle area I recall having to change a carburetor on the side of the road wearing a suit holding a flashlight in my teeth, and three fuel pumps in less than six months.

Use what you want but people should at least be aware of the option of locating non-ethanol fuel. The politics of ethanol are far more of a reason for it being forced on us in the U.S. than any supposed pollution benefits.

 

Given that your area of the country has had ethanol fuels for longer (30+ years) than almost everywhere else on the continent, where's the mountains of proof that it is the cause of the problems you've experienced?

There should be thousands of cars stalled on the side of the road at any one time.

We've had E10 for 20+ years here, I've yet to see this.

 

FYI my brother in law still buys lead additives for his 1963 Corvette 327/340HP. The nearest non-ethanol gas around here is 50 miles away. He only had 60K miles on the car but when it needs a valve job he will switch to make it compatible to E10.

 

Ah- no offence, but this is an example of old, old myths and misconceptions that are still clung to despite the 50ish years of evidence that demonstrates that such practices are not required.

There is no connection between E10 and valve wear nor does an engine need to be converted to be E10 compatible. Gaskets, fuel lines and other soft components have been ethanol compatible for 20+ years. If your BiL's car has hoses older than that, they're way overdue for replacement ethanol or not.

The fear when lead was removed from gasoline in the 70s was insufficient octane levels that would forestall detonation, and accelerated wear on engine components, primarily exhaust valve seats.

It turns out that neither is or was a real world issue as applied to older Corvettes and actually almost any other US muscle car.

WRT octane levels, there was change over in the pump rating system in North America in the 70s, almost concurrent with the introduction of unleaded fuels. What used to be labelled as 98 octane (premium or super) became 93. The old 93 (regular) became 87. Same gas, different rating system.

That means that your BIL's 327/340 can operate on today's 91 or 93 without fear of detonation. Octane boosters, which are ineffective to start with, are just not needed.

Regarding the fears of valve seat recession, experience has taught us that it's basically a non-issue as mentioned before. Accelerated wear only happens under conditions of high component temperature for extended periods of time. While this might be a factor for a heavy vehicle pulling a load up a long grade, the conditions don't exist on vehicles that only load the engines for very brief periods, such as a Corvette accelerating through the gears to reach cruising speed.

While it is true that GM introduced hardened valve seats in 1971ish, this measure was done with the knowledge that only a small part of their production would be affected by the upcoming unleaded fuels.

Suffice to say that there's no real evidence that any Corvette or similar car that has ever had valve problems due to lack of lead. Again, the commercial additives at car part stores don't actually contain lead but a substitute that has a very dubious track record.

Your BiL might feel better by spending money on his '63 but it's pretty much wasted.

I would also suggest that he NOT have hardened seats installed if an when he gets around to overhauling the engine. It's not rare to see a set of heads ruined by machining out the old seat and accidentally cutting through into a coolant passage. There is no known repair when this happens and with the mania of 'matching numbers' a very costly mistake.

If he's not already a member, I'd suggest he join the NCRS http://www.ncrs.org/ | NCRS | Nation...torers Society to learn first handed from fellow owners about the care and feeding of these great cars.

 

I've never had any trouble with E-10 in cars, and we have owned a 1995 Lexus SC300 for 20 years, BUT the lawn equip like mowers, leaf blowers, string trimmers, chain saws and my 1985 Honda 700SC Nighthawk have suffered problems because of it. I've had manufacturers void warranties on the yard equipment because of damage (including destroying the bore in a leaf blower) from damage they claim was caused by ethanol (E-10). I've been driving 10 miles to get pure gas for those items.