Some of us lucky devils do not have to choose :-). So...

Why a Vette?
Besides the obvious half price of an XKR, the Stingray has faster acceleration, better handling, smoother highway ride, a true 30MPG highway fuel economy...

For me the great thing about the Stingray is that it can easily be modified to suit your exact preferences. The car has fantastic handling from the factory. Not good enough for me, however. So, $1300 got me 3 changes of swaybars and a set of Bilstein shocks. Now, the car handles like a race car.

For those who like to burn rubber and unhappy with the rate of tire consumption resulting from "only" 460 HP, supercharger kits that add an easy 150HP start under $5000 and can go easily over 1000HP.

Oh, yes, the Stingray also looks great, draws a lot of attention and has a very nice interior with electronics info systems that Jaguar could only dream about.

Than, why Jaguar?
Superb styling, exclusive, it is a car that makes you feel good to be sitting in, to be seen in, to arrive in. Great supercharged power, great acceleration, superb transmission and decent (not great) handling. If you treat it as a GT car, it is great. If you try pushing it as a racecar-like canyon carver, it my leave you want better...

If I had to make a choice of having only one of these two cars.... gosh, what a nightmare decision... glad I don't have to make that decision.

 

I too had the misconception that plastic cars were more resistant to rust, but I was wrong. They just hide it better. Couple of years ago I pulled the body off a 72 and found rust in places and on parts I didn't know existed.

Another year to go and hopefully will Top Flight. Corvette hobby is widely varied from NASCAR to Art Car and all the way up to to automotive archaeology. No rednecks on this end of the scale. Points are deducted for bumper stickers, 8-ball shift knobs, and double points off for any parts out of the JC Whitney or Summit catalogs.

But yes, here in the south, our "furrin" cars sometimes just don't fit in, particularly if you grew up blue-collar like me. Sometimes it seems that everybody at a car show has a relative or friend who was laid off from the local GM plant and still holds a grudge against the competition. I can see where one might choose the Camaro just so as not to cause a rift between family or friends.

 

My BIL is into them and he just traded one of his (63 340 conv) for a 67 300hp convert , automatic with air with a 7 year old frame off restoration. He also has a 67 427/435 convert in great condition but not NCRS. His friend has 2 NCRS cars (owns a used car dealership) that were winners. I have nothing bad to say about them or GM but for me I've past the age where I'd want another one. My priorities are just a fun ride in the countryside with my bride.

 

A Chevy will always be a chevy and a Jaguar as we know it today is a JAGUAR. A Jaguar has a WOW factor the chevy will never have. Negative connotations are attached to the chevy and sentiments of exotic works of art come with the Jaguar. With Tata changing the Jaguar image this may soon change; however, the XK is based on an extremely old platform and it is showing today as new cars, including the Camaro and Corvette, have magnetic controlled suspension, full digital instrumentation displayed in analog format, updated chassis, updated LED displays, etc. Chevrolet has built an outstanding new Z06 Corvette with state-of-the-art technology and a whopping 650hp/650 lb torque which it can put down because of the updated suspension and chassis which Jaguar can not compete with.


These are different cars for different people. Driving a XK simply puts a smile on your face which a Camaro will never do. Although, the Corvette Z06 with it's performance will put a smile on the face of any performance junkie, but then it's still a chevy and pedestrians will take note.

 

This article is just bad advice for anyone considering a Camaro. Let's see, buy a new car with a warranty or a higher-mileage almost-exotic with potential to bankrupt the smaller budget buyer with one repair.

So there would be two types of buyers that could weigh between a Camaro or XKR, buyer one who is at the edge of what they can afford with the Camaro and would buy the Jag as a deal. For that person upkeep would be a struggle and repairs catastrophic. The smart choice for this person is to get the Camaro, wait for the day you can afford a nice car without penalizing your finances.

Then there is buyer number two, who can afford anything they want but is buying a Camaro because they like it. Why would they switch to a Jag, they have their pick and already have an eye set on that car and brand.

 

^^^^^well said, hit the proverbial nail on the head regarding budgetary considerations

 

How do you know when you finally got that Vette suspension tuned to perfection?

Easy!

You have a HUGE grin on your face as you tear through the local, entirely deserted canyon roads, quite confidently at some highly elevated pace... and... at the same time your generally compliant wife exasperatedly and breathlessly announces that she would NEVER EVER ride in that car AGAIN!

Yeap, job well done (with the suspension) and yeap, it is still a Chevy.

 

axr6,


When I first seen your picture of your red corvette I thought it was a Ferrari 599. Where can you buy the technology and performance in the Z06 Corvette for less? Damn insane performance for such a small price. I keep going back to the Z06 from a technology and performance perspective and then look the other way because its a Chevy.


Please comment on your experience with both cars, the new Corvette and the XKR. Although I love the XKR it's starting to look and feel very old. I'm looking forward to the Acura NSX spider when available. I want an AWD supercar loaded with the latest technology. However, I think the XK will always be a special GT.

 

It does look amazingly similar in design than the Ferrari 599. Both cars were in development at roughly the same time so, it is hard to say who copied whom?

In short, the Jaguar is more sophisticated in its execution than the Stingray. The engine sounds, idling, high rpm is smoother in the Jag. The transmission, even as it is older now, still better than the Stingray's 8sp. Not that the Chevy is not good, just that the Jaguar is better. Low speed, broken road suspension movement is better in the Jag, as well. Likely, due to the extremely stiff sidewalls for the Stingray's run-flat tires. On the highway, however, the Stingray has a definitely better ride, devoid of the irritating vibrations that characterizes the Jag as it "feels" every tiny ripple on the road surface.

Sound under full acceleration is more sophisticated in the Jag and more raw in the Stingray (with the optional exhaust that opens fully under acceleration). My wife giggles at the sounds of full acceleration in the Jag, while she says it sounds and goes like "a hell broke loose" in the Stingray.

Handling, the XKR feels heavy. Steering is much improved over the XK but, still not as precise as the Stingray. The XKR has lower limits in cornering and exiting corners. You know that you are close to the limit when the rear tires starting to loose grip and the rear just steps out on corner exit. At the same speeds even the base Stingray is sure footed while my changes caused it to be much more neutral with the limits still beyond anything I have thrown at it. It just sticks, no stepping out on the rear, no matter how progressively I step on the gas. If there is a nasty bone in the Stingray, well, I have not found it, yet... The Stingray had too much understeer for my taste and a front swaybar that was too small even for the ZO6, allowing an annoying dip at the front when turning in. My 3rd aftermarket bar variation eliminated that little dip that most people would not even notice.

One thing I did not like about the Stingray was its throttle application algorithm. As you likely know it is a "drive by wire" throttle and, I am certain, in order to prevent inexperienced drivers to jump on the throttle too hard, they dialed back the throttle application. End result; you felt like you had to press the throttle forever for something to happen. Easy fix, just installed an aftermarket adjustable throttle control where I can set the throttle to be as sensitive as I want. Makes a HUGE improvement in "feel".

For my specific driving habits over tight canyon roads, I do not need ZO6 power. It would simply be unusable. 470HP (+10 HP from cold air induction) in a 3400 lbs package with 470lbs of torque provides more than enough motivation for the car. I actually had my order forms filled for a +200HP supercharger kit, ready to push the order button, when I had a moment of sanity. Truly a waste of money, unless someone races tracks or into drag racing. Instead, I gave away those monies to buy a new children's playground on our favorite South Pacific atoll, Aitutaki. A much better choice.

Over any given racetrack the base Stingray will be several seconds quicker than the XKR. Mostly due to the 700 lbs less weight AND the fact that you can pour on the gas on corner exit on the Stingray but, got to be very restrained to do the same with the XKR. That rear-end is always threatening near the limit. Needless to say with only $1300 in suspension mods and $180 for a throttle control unit my car is, without doubt, several seconds/lap quicker than the base Stingray.

The base seats in the Stingray are excellent for both support and getting in and out. For even more serious cornering the performance seats provide even more cornering support. I drive quite hard and the base seats are fine, as well as the look good.

There is one big (for me) negative for the Stingray. GM, as usual, had to cut corners somewhere. It is with the cooling. They built the car for the 99 percent who drive the car at "normal" speeds while the 1 percent who tracks the car or takes it on high RPM canyon runs will have to use the aftermarket for a fix. Both base, and ZO6 cars have a reputation for overheating on tracks at temps over 80F, doing consecutive laps. The main culprit appears to be the undersized water-to-oil cooler. I can drive all day long in 110F temps at normal street RPMs with no heat issues. However, get the RPMs up near the redline, keep it there for 5 minutes and the oil temps will climb to 300F and the water to 250F. Well, this is GM for you. For a very few dollars, they could have added extra cooling but, they figured that the masses would not need it. They were right in that respect, except they are getting some really bad press from people who track their cars and from pro testers who overheat the car while track testing.

But, the solution is only money... a couple of thousand aftermarket dollar fix for something GM could have done for $100.

In conclusion, if you are looking for a very high performance car that can be easily elevated into even higher performance, the Stingray is a super choice. There is not much we can do with the Jag to improve it, due to a lack of aftermarket. I know people are giving it a tune to gain more power but, the handling of the XKR is its true limit; it can not accommodate the standard levels of power very well due to its suspension design. I've been saying for years that the present Jaguar suspension team is simply incompetent both for handling setup and for ride quality. This car should have higher cornering limits and should have a true GT ride where you are not irritated by having to feel and sense the breaking bones of every ant you driving over :-(.

I love both cars, taking the Jag on my usual longer distance commutes while taking the Stingray out for those fun, local canyon runs. When it comes to driving up into the High Sierras for pure fun and recreation, it is a tough choice. For public response, the Jag invokes admiration from a more sophisticated crowd, while the Stingray gets the thumbs up from the majority. I am sure that will change as the Stingray will be in production for years and will become more common in public.

 

Funny how this thread went from Camaro to vette.

So in staying with it's current direction... Chevy/GM has made the Vette name for roughly 50 years. It came out terribly then when introduced then they saw their rightful market and design and it was a hit. That was until the late60's/early 70's when just about anything American was just bad. Now quickly walk through the 70's. the 80's, the 90's, and even the 2000's and the Corvette was still a typical GM product... it made nice noise, went fast from stoplight to stoplight, but also rattled too much, the interiors were inferior at best, and the longevity was questionable. Just bad designs inspired by good people then ruined by accounting people and feeble minded executives who were solely bent on short-term profits versus actually making a decent product.

It wasn't until this iteration of the Corvette where GM may have actually made a breakthrough in a big way. It's not just a regurgitated mess with minor body changes and a moved emblem but a complete redesign. The body is polarizing to many, some love it some don't, but the performance is definitely there in spades! The long-term quality will need to be seen but kudos to them for actually "trying" this time around. It is definitely the only GM product that is a standout, it is truly a flagship model for them and they hit the target pretty damn well.

I wouldn't ever consider one based up GM's history, of all the dastardly business practices I've seen I put them in the company of Enron, Worldcom, and many of the politician's today so I do not feel good about supporting them with my $$$. Even today with regard to the ignition switch fiasco they are not doing what is right only looking for the cheapest way out of what should be criminal prosecution. If they are doing that now what else are they hiding??? I'm thoroughly disgusted with people/companies not being honest and true... they don't and won't get my $$$.

 

I'll come over and drive the 'vette if you need help with the decision as a self-less act of kindness.

 

axr6 , interesting write up. Sounds like a fun car but it doesn't agree with my driving style anymore. I'll let you youngsters push the envelope as long as you don't affect someone else. I guess the only think I can dispute to some degree is the ride quality of the Corvette. Compared to the XK or XKR I feel there is more comfort in the Jag. Now back to the Camaro I thing they have done a nice job and I can even live with the styling . Then again I also like the lines of the new Mustangs and I'm not a for fan. A buddy of mine buys a new Camaro every 3 years and recently purchased his latest. The ride was better then the vette but then again not my type of car to own. What I found interesting is a new vette parked next to a new Camaro almost look to be the same size. Seems the vette grew through the years and now looks big to me. So we all have our wants and likes and I can't complain about any one of them. Enjoy it while you can as life is shorter then you think.

 

Hey, Jagtoes, not sure who you're addressing here...?

"youngsters"...?

I'll be 68 next month, hardly a youngster. 12 years retired from SCCA road racing but still appreciate fast cars and quick driving. Maybe a "pretendo-youngster", at most

And, while the Camaro and Vette may be similar width and length, the Vette is MUCH lower and many hundreds of pounds lighter in weight. I personally do not care for the Camaro's design, inside or outside, at all. Still, have to admit, given its similar weight and category, the Camaro is much quicker on the track than the XKR.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature

 

Interesting comment. Our local dealer has had several very low mileage Z06 (previous gen) that were traded in by owners who were simply unprepared for the hp and thought they could just "adapt" but could not. Two of these owners that I know of have new "base engine" Corvettes and absolutely love them.


I am speculating that the ultra high hp Jaguars may be more "civilized" than than the Z06 for the average driver.

 

Frankly, if there is such thing, the ZO6 has too much power for the streets, particularly for inexperienced drivers. Only a few years ago the only people who had the chance to learn how to drive such powerful cars were GT-1 class or other higher competition class racers. Average people buy them, try out the full power, floor them and the car gets away from them and crashes despite all the electronic traction controls. I just saw a totalled ZO6 last week at my local high-end body shop. The driver attempted a full power start from stop. The ZO6 made an instant and abrupt right turn and landed in the ditch. Those controls can do only so much.

Chevrolet did as much as they could with the traction controls and with the absolutely non-progressive throttle algorithms to make the cars as safe as possible but, just too much power transmitted through two wheels only. Combine that much power and torque with corners and you can imagine how easily people get in trouble.

With my normally aspirated Stingray the car takes off like a demon between turns in lower gears. There is no way that I need 180 more HP and I am a very experienced ex-racing driver. People with more than 600+ whp consistently report that they spin and burn tires in the first 3 gears. So, you have to be doing over 100 MPH before you can get full traction at full throttle applications. That is simply insane and a recipe for loosing your car and your licence. Yet, reading all the posts on the Stingray forums, lot of people are installing those 700-1000 HP mods which can not practically be driven even on a road-racing track, making the only real use for 1/2 mile drag runs with serious drag radial tire setup for traction.

In comparison to the Jaguars, the 510 XKR is more comparable to the normally aspirated Stingray when it comes to power-to-weight ratios and tire sizes. The ZO6 has a lot more power and lot bigger tires. It is a BEAST. The XKR is more civilized but its traction control is far more intrusive, cutting engine power far too early during hard cornering. I generally drive the XKR over my canyon roads with the traction off, preferring it to that intrusive traction control. Like I said in my other post, it is much easier to lose the rear-end in the XKR than with the Stingray.

 

Regular XK here, but I did the traction control to be a bit too intrusive at first.

Once I figured out shutting off the TC, I a few days switching it off every time I drove. After a few hard drives, I had a better natural balance of the car. The TC kicks in a lot less now that I adjusted my driving. the TC kicking in prevented me from learning the car. My inputs were very very bad, and hence, the TC kicking in a lot.

I do agree on your write up that the XK really struggles putting power down out of the corner without getting loose. Its the complete opposite of a kart, braking deep and relatively straight, turning in a little later and slower into the corner, feeding on power, or at least enough there is engine braking throughout the entire corner.

Exceptional handling wasn't on my look for list when car shopping, and the XK simply doesn't have it for me compared to other similar cars I've driven.

I've never been in the latest gen 'Vette, how is the visibility outwards when driving? The glass work and unobstructed view is one of my favorite things about driving the XK.

 

If your only 68 you're a youngster to me . Sounds like you are having fun so enjoy the drive.

 

The front/side visibility is very good. The rear view is compromised by the rear spoiler (if used), but not to the point of blocking visibility completely. One thing that the Stingray has is the good standard rear backup camera and an optional forward looking camera. I truly miss the rear camera, particularly, in the XKR.