Will the new and upgraded 2013 Viper appeal to Jaguar buyers?
#22
04-29-2013, 10:48 AM
That was 20% of owners that have ever had their Viper on the track. Very few do it regularly. 911 GT3 and Corvette Z06/07/ZR1 are very track focused and are more popular. One day I was at a PCA track day and there was 17 GT3's out of 25 in all of Canada there, and most of those likely saw very little street use. The Viper TA model will be exactly like that, while the guys that just do the odd track day will choose the SRT Viper or GTS models that have more compliant suspensions.
#23
04-29-2013, 12:45 PM
Veteran Member
if this was a previous gen viper vs XK conversation. I would say the 2 arent comparable. people who would get the viper are pure hardcore car guys....people who get the Jag are similar but want the added creature comforts.
the Gen 5 changes that....offering pretty much the same package in terms of performance and electronic goodies. Even in terms of looks, the newer viper is still as sexy with soft curves (not as striking as the 3rd and 4th gen)....not a design that would make you want one over the other.
basically at this point it would come down to who wants a comfortable cruiser and who wants a ***** to the wall driving experience
the Gen 5 changes that....offering pretty much the same package in terms of performance and electronic goodies. Even in terms of looks, the newer viper is still as sexy with soft curves (not as striking as the 3rd and 4th gen)....not a design that would make you want one over the other.
basically at this point it would come down to who wants a comfortable cruiser and who wants a ***** to the wall driving experience
#24
04-30-2013, 06:54 AM
I have a 2011 XKR 175 and I would never consider owning a viper or a corvette stingray ZR1. Why? They have no class and are basically low quality American made hot rods which raddle and shank after 12 months. The Jaguar XKR has nothing to prove and just speaks for it self while the viper is screaming for attention like the loudest kid on the block. If I were to desire a more performance oriented GT I would look at the Nissan GT-R.
I would like to buy a higher performance car, but there aren't any GT's that appeal to me or meet my requirements better than the XKR. For that goal I'll choose a much lighter weight sports car. Styling is a personal thing, but the new Gen5 is the best looking Viper since the Gen 2, much refined in all respects, able to run reliably on the track without modifications, and has widespread appeal among those who own and appreciate much higher end sports and GT cars. viperclub.org is a great place to learn.
Bruce
Last edited by Bruce H.; 04-30-2013 at 07:18 AM.
#26
04-30-2013, 09:34 AM
All the ones built so far, and being delivered to their buyers now, are the Launch Edition (LE) equipped GTS's at $140,000 and Stryker Red (special custom paint) at $160,000. Once production of those 300 is completed they'll start building the budget ones!
The SRT at $99k and GTS at $120k are considered a bargain at that performance level where competitors are all much, much more expensive, and not as fast around a track.
We're lucky to be able to choose among cars that offer such a wide range of attributes, and naturally each one isn't designed to appeal to everyone.
Bruce
The SRT at $99k and GTS at $120k are considered a bargain at that performance level where competitors are all much, much more expensive, and not as fast around a track.
We're lucky to be able to choose among cars that offer such a wide range of attributes, and naturally each one isn't designed to appeal to everyone.
Bruce
#27
04-30-2013, 09:55 AM
Veteran Member
All the ones built so far, and being delivered to their buyers now, are the Launch Edition (LE) equipped GTS's at $140,000 and Stryker Red (special custom paint) at $160,000. Once production of those 300 is completed they'll start building the budget ones!
The SRT at $99k and GTS at $120k are considered a bargain at that performance level where competitors are all much, much more expensive, and not as fast around a track.
We're lucky to be able to choose among cars that offer such a wide range of attributes, and naturally each one isn't designed to appeal to everyone.
Bruce
The SRT at $99k and GTS at $120k are considered a bargain at that performance level where competitors are all much, much more expensive, and not as fast around a track.
We're lucky to be able to choose among cars that offer such a wide range of attributes, and naturally each one isn't designed to appeal to everyone.
Bruce
#28
04-30-2013, 06:53 PM
Veteran Member
I always like the looks of the Viper but, the one time I had driven it I found it hard to place that long front-end over my narrow winding roads. I constantly worried that just keeping it in my own narrow lane would scrape the other side up against the rocky canyon walls. Just seemed TOO BIG and ungainly in the tight twisties. Probably would not have the same issues over wider pavements. Still, I prefer a shorter front-end.
Albert
Albert
#29
05-01-2013, 02:45 AM
I always like the looks of the Viper but, the one time I had driven it I found it hard to place that long front-end over my narrow winding roads. I constantly worried that just keeping it in my own narrow lane would scrape the other side up against the rocky canyon walls. Just seemed TOO BIG and ungainly in the tight twisties. Probably would not have the same issues over wider pavements. Still, I prefer a shorter front-end.
Albert
Albert
I just put the XKR back on the road last week after storing for the winter, and the Supra yesterday for the first time since before buying the XKR in 2011. Great to experience them as if almost like the first time!
Looking forward to taking the new Viper out for a test drive at the first opportunity.
Bruce
#30
05-01-2013, 10:07 AM
Veteran Member
That's the same initial impression I had when I got both the Supra and the XKR. I was used to the smaller MR2T (similar to your RX7), but that large and ungainly feeling disappeared pretty quickly with a little more seat time. I used to auto-x the Supra with the BMW club years ago and was always surprised how I didn't knock over a bunch of cones on the narrow course they set up for the tiny 325is and M3's that they mostly drove. But I'm still wondering where the front of the XKR is
I just put the XKR back on the road last week after storing for the winter, and the Supra yesterday for the first time since before buying the XKR in 2011. Great to experience them as if almost like the first time!
Looking forward to taking the new Viper out for a test drive at the first opportunity.
Bruce
I just put the XKR back on the road last week after storing for the winter, and the Supra yesterday for the first time since before buying the XKR in 2011. Great to experience them as if almost like the first time!
Looking forward to taking the new Viper out for a test drive at the first opportunity.
Bruce
At least that is what came to mind yesterday when I took my TT out for a 50 mile winding road drive. I have not driven it in many months, years and then, only for a very few miles. Over time I figured that my driving skills had gone away, that I was too old to drive fast anymore.
Well...
This car makes me absolutely feel like Superman. Nothing in the world compares. It wants to go fast, going slow is not an option. All the familiar senses came back. At least half a dozen cars panickingly pulling over on those narrow, winding roads after seeing me approach from the back at warp speeds. An S2000 sitting on my rear bumper for a couple of minutes after getting stuck behind slow traffic; once the passing opportunity, the TT snarled frighteningly and accelerated so violently that the S2000 did not even attempt to keep up. It is the most outrageous sports car I have had ever the pleasure to drive.
So, how does anything else compares? My two Lamborghinis did not even come close. My '05 and '08XKs were not even on the same planet. The original aluminum bodied 427 Cobra that I tried was un-sophisticated mess of bad handling compared to this. The Viper was a lumbering, overweight fat guy, compared to this. The only other car that made me feel Superman was my much modified, autocross championship winning '83 Ford Mustang but then, this car will make that too look slow.
Since I have been eyeing the F-type, after driving my TT I came to the realization; the only new sports car that would interest me would be one that makes me feel like a Superman. Frankly, I do not think anyone, other than MAYBE a very few custom-built cars, make a sports car to meet that criteria. I think that it is only possible to modify one to a degree that would make them pretty much unacceptable for daily driving but, my gosh, when you get to a winding road, YOU ARE GOD and the Superhero, all in one!
My '05XK was a poor handling car. My '08XK was much better but, still nothing to write home about. Both were especially beautiful GT cars and that made them worthwhile for owning. My XJL is a car for Kings. My (my wife's) XF is a great road car, better handling than any of my other Jags. But, when I want to be Superman, there is only one car that can make me. Too bad that now it is 20 years old.
Albert
#31
05-02-2013, 10:20 AM
Veteran Member
Talk about custom canyon carvers, here is the newest entry:
Street Legal $170,000 Mini Formula One Races Along Malibu - Bloomberg
Of course, you'd look like a dork driving one on public roads but, hey, if you want absolute best road performance...
No doubt, it will be a dedicated track car. Of course, you could get a used FA (Formula Atlantic) for a fraction of the price and probably go even faster on the track. FAs have way over a 1000 lbs downforce built into them, making them REALLY scary fast around corners.
Albert
Street Legal $170,000 Mini Formula One Races Along Malibu - Bloomberg
Of course, you'd look like a dork driving one on public roads but, hey, if you want absolute best road performance...
No doubt, it will be a dedicated track car. Of course, you could get a used FA (Formula Atlantic) for a fraction of the price and probably go even faster on the track. FAs have way over a 1000 lbs downforce built into them, making them REALLY scary fast around corners.
Albert
#32
05-02-2013, 10:26 AM
Veteran Member
A sports car needs to make you feel like you're SUPERMAN!
At least that is what came to mind yesterday when I took my TT out for a 50 mile winding road drive. I have not driven it in many months, years and then, only for a very few miles. Over time I figured that my driving skills had gone away, that I was too old to drive fast anymore.
Well...
This car makes me absolutely feel like Superman. Nothing in the world compares. It wants to go fast, going slow is not an option. All the familiar senses came back. At least half a dozen cars panickingly pulling over on those narrow, winding roads after seeing me approach from the back at warp speeds. An S2000 sitting on my rear bumper for a couple of minutes after getting stuck behind slow traffic; once the passing opportunity, the TT snarled frighteningly and accelerated so violently that the S2000 did not even attempt to keep up. It is the most outrageous sports car I have had ever the pleasure to drive.
So, how does anything else compares? My two Lamborghinis did not even come close. My '05 and '08XKs were not even on the same planet. The original aluminum bodied 427 Cobra that I tried was un-sophisticated mess of bad handling compared to this. The Viper was a lumbering, overweight fat guy, compared to this. The only other car that made me feel Superman was my much modified, autocross championship winning '83 Ford Mustang but then, this car will make that too look slow.
Since I have been eyeing the F-type, after driving my TT I came to the realization; the only new sports car that would interest me would be one that makes me feel like a Superman. Frankly, I do not think anyone, other than MAYBE a very few custom-built cars, make a sports car to meet that criteria. I think that it is only possible to modify one to a degree that would make them pretty much unacceptable for daily driving but, my gosh, when you get to a winding road, YOU ARE GOD and the Superhero, all in one!
My '05XK was a poor handling car. My '08XK was much better but, still nothing to write home about. Both were especially beautiful GT cars and that made them worthwhile for owning. My XJL is a car for Kings. My (my wife's) XF is a great road car, better handling than any of my other Jags. But, when I want to be Superman, there is only one car that can make me. Too bad that now it is 20 years old.
Albert
At least that is what came to mind yesterday when I took my TT out for a 50 mile winding road drive. I have not driven it in many months, years and then, only for a very few miles. Over time I figured that my driving skills had gone away, that I was too old to drive fast anymore.
Well...
This car makes me absolutely feel like Superman. Nothing in the world compares. It wants to go fast, going slow is not an option. All the familiar senses came back. At least half a dozen cars panickingly pulling over on those narrow, winding roads after seeing me approach from the back at warp speeds. An S2000 sitting on my rear bumper for a couple of minutes after getting stuck behind slow traffic; once the passing opportunity, the TT snarled frighteningly and accelerated so violently that the S2000 did not even attempt to keep up. It is the most outrageous sports car I have had ever the pleasure to drive.
So, how does anything else compares? My two Lamborghinis did not even come close. My '05 and '08XKs were not even on the same planet. The original aluminum bodied 427 Cobra that I tried was un-sophisticated mess of bad handling compared to this. The Viper was a lumbering, overweight fat guy, compared to this. The only other car that made me feel Superman was my much modified, autocross championship winning '83 Ford Mustang but then, this car will make that too look slow.
Since I have been eyeing the F-type, after driving my TT I came to the realization; the only new sports car that would interest me would be one that makes me feel like a Superman. Frankly, I do not think anyone, other than MAYBE a very few custom-built cars, make a sports car to meet that criteria. I think that it is only possible to modify one to a degree that would make them pretty much unacceptable for daily driving but, my gosh, when you get to a winding road, YOU ARE GOD and the Superhero, all in one!
My '05XK was a poor handling car. My '08XK was much better but, still nothing to write home about. Both were especially beautiful GT cars and that made them worthwhile for owning. My XJL is a car for Kings. My (my wife's) XF is a great road car, better handling than any of my other Jags. But, when I want to be Superman, there is only one car that can make me. Too bad that now it is 20 years old.
Albert
#33
05-02-2013, 04:09 PM
Veteran Member
All the ones built so far, and being delivered to their buyers now, are the Launch Edition (LE) equipped GTS's at $140,000 and Stryker Red (special custom paint) at $160,000. Once production of those 300 is completed they'll start building the budget ones!
The SRT at $99k and GTS at $120k are considered a bargain at that performance level where competitors are all much, much more expensive, and not as fast around a track.
We're lucky to be able to choose among cars that offer such a wide range of attributes, and naturally each one isn't designed to appeal to everyone.
Bruce
The SRT at $99k and GTS at $120k are considered a bargain at that performance level where competitors are all much, much more expensive, and not as fast around a track.
We're lucky to be able to choose among cars that offer such a wide range of attributes, and naturally each one isn't designed to appeal to everyone.
Bruce
Somebody has to be a motorsport nut to pay $130,000 for a Dodge emblem.
#34
05-02-2013, 04:47 PM
Veteran Member
"OMG" is the average reaction from passengers when surprised by the sudden acceleration. :-)
Albert
Last edited by axr6; 05-02-2013 at 05:52 PM.
#35
05-02-2013, 09:32 PM
Albert,
Hearing about your passion for extreme performance is music to my ears. I experience that high on the track, and with others that are just as passionate as I am. I can't get that fix on public roads, and the 510 hp XKR might as well be 300 hp for all I can use without losing my license. So for me the priority unfortunately seems to boil down to track performance first, and street appeal second. I've realized that the F-Type likely wouldn't strike the right balance for me (likely after the first couple of track days), and scratching that itch effectively isn't going to be cheap!
People ask me whether I prefer the MR2 or Supra more on the track, and I tell them that the MR2 makes me feel like a hero when I run quick times in it because it's more challenging to drive fast, and the Supra makes me feel it is the hero because it is so easy to drive fast. Very different feelings, both very appealing...and I now think I've found one car that can give me both!
When asked about the XKR I tell them how amazed I am that it is as capable on track as it is, and I really didn't expect that it would be so good, particularly given its weight. But it's too well-mannered to make me feel like a hero, and it's too heavy to be a track hero, so .....
....to be continued
Bruce
Hearing about your passion for extreme performance is music to my ears. I experience that high on the track, and with others that are just as passionate as I am. I can't get that fix on public roads, and the 510 hp XKR might as well be 300 hp for all I can use without losing my license. So for me the priority unfortunately seems to boil down to track performance first, and street appeal second. I've realized that the F-Type likely wouldn't strike the right balance for me (likely after the first couple of track days), and scratching that itch effectively isn't going to be cheap!
People ask me whether I prefer the MR2 or Supra more on the track, and I tell them that the MR2 makes me feel like a hero when I run quick times in it because it's more challenging to drive fast, and the Supra makes me feel it is the hero because it is so easy to drive fast. Very different feelings, both very appealing...and I now think I've found one car that can give me both!
When asked about the XKR I tell them how amazed I am that it is as capable on track as it is, and I really didn't expect that it would be so good, particularly given its weight. But it's too well-mannered to make me feel like a hero, and it's too heavy to be a track hero, so .....
....to be continued
Bruce
#36
05-03-2013, 10:06 AM
Veteran Member
Bruce
Yes, "...to be continued"
Kind of never ending passion for the fine things in life.
With the arrival of the new XF the TT moved out of the garage to under a tent shade and a car cover. My wife suggested that I really needed to sell it. I agreed, since I have not been using it. For the past two years, less than 150 miles of driving. I know because 2 years ago the smog testing guy asked me if taking it to his station (30 miles away) was the longest trip during those past two years. Yes, it was. Now it is due for smog again and I have some work to do...
Then, I drove it last Tuesday and the passion has been reawakened. How stupid it would be to sell this car. Could not get anything to match it and I am not about to go through the lengthy development process to build/test an other one. So, it stays with the implied promise of more use...
To me there are fine cars, and there are great cars and then, there are the cars that I built/modified. That is where real perfection lies and passion lives....
Albert
Yes, "...to be continued"
Kind of never ending passion for the fine things in life.
With the arrival of the new XF the TT moved out of the garage to under a tent shade and a car cover. My wife suggested that I really needed to sell it. I agreed, since I have not been using it. For the past two years, less than 150 miles of driving. I know because 2 years ago the smog testing guy asked me if taking it to his station (30 miles away) was the longest trip during those past two years. Yes, it was. Now it is due for smog again and I have some work to do...
Then, I drove it last Tuesday and the passion has been reawakened. How stupid it would be to sell this car. Could not get anything to match it and I am not about to go through the lengthy development process to build/test an other one. So, it stays with the implied promise of more use...
To me there are fine cars, and there are great cars and then, there are the cars that I built/modified. That is where real perfection lies and passion lives....
Albert
#37
08-29-2013, 09:24 AM
Senior Member
So the new SRT Vipers are finally trickling to dealers here in Chicago. I've got to say they look great (much better than the C7 although I haven't seen one in person). This blue doesn't look that great on the Viper as I prefer White or Black. I know some of the Viper guys are upset at 640HP and wanted at least 700HP but I have to say its pulls hard! Some are guessing the low HP is because SRT is waiting to see what the C7 Z06/ZR1 will be before bumping up their HP.
Video(click on pic below to play):
Video(click on pic below to play):
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elindo (08-29-2013)
#38
08-29-2013, 10:31 AM
To me there are fine cars, and there are great cars and then, there are the cars that I built/modified. That is where real perfection lies and passion lives....
Albert[/QUOTE]
Yes, Albert, you hit it square on the head. There is nothing--nothing--like driving a fast car that you have built/modified from the ground up. You are connected to it in a way that cannot be duplicated by any other car off a dealer's lot, no matter how beguiling.
Albert[/QUOTE]
Yes, Albert, you hit it square on the head. There is nothing--nothing--like driving a fast car that you have built/modified from the ground up. You are connected to it in a way that cannot be duplicated by any other car off a dealer's lot, no matter how beguiling.
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axr6 (08-29-2013)
