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EDIT: Amp quality here is not as important as the DSP, as has been shown with those who’ve installed the android TSD with built in DSP.
So let me ask please and bear with me as I have only a remedial understanding of this at best.
Where in the sound system is the DSP? I assume not in the Amp but the CD player (IAM)?
I have the Chinese aftermarket installed and the sound is exceptional.
Now I'm about to install Cambo's CarPlay system - ultimately will compare it,,functionally with the version I have in focusing mainly on sound. So basically with system A you get x and give up Y, etc...
Even though I'm hearing impaired, The sound performance is significantly improved with the aftermarket.
Before the aftermarket, I went from base audio to Alpine Premium with the same disappointment/resignation as others. Better than base but meh.
I did also add crossovers between the tweeters and door speakers and better but still meh.
I expect when I install Cambo's CarPlay unit, I will get CarPlay with the OEM sound system because his unit focuses on CarPlay and Android Auto while retaining OEM functions.
So my assumption is the OEM DSP will be back in play and I adding a standalone DSP will not gain me anything and could make things worse?
Does the base system have DSP or is that only an option with premium?
Perhaps an aftermarket DSP Amp? I'm not sure I'd know how to configure that in SDD. Assuming Base doesn't have DSP, set CCF to base audio and then add an aftermarket DSP Amp?
The questions show my lack of understanding but I'd appreciate input when you've finished laughing....
Thank you tmich, yes that's my assumption as well. Apologies if that wasn't clear. My question is really can I overcome that somehow? I've read older posts including this one but finding nothing definitive which is probably an answer unto itself. I was hoping jahummer might weigh in with some options as it's in his wheelhouse. Cambo as well or anyone with expertise in the area.
DSPs in car audio handle all of the sound processing, from being a crossover (steering specific frequencies to to certain driver) and act as an eq to tune the sound to best suit the application (car interior). Often times there are various profiles such such as Dolby, Meridian, etc many of which are marketing gimmicks more than anything. I haven’t looked carefully but the DSP here is going to be in whatever hardware or software is changed when going from standard to premium but is likely just software in the head unit. The Android unit has it’s own DSP which replaces Jaguar’s. I can also tell you there’s a difference with input quality of sources even on the premium for example the Apple interface as I’ve fitted to mine sounds quite different from the CD player. And the radio is absolute rubbish.
The Alpine system in the Super V8 was quite good and aside from a lacking midrange in the premium X150 (which can be tweaked a bit) aside from the full size Range Rover, it’s not nearly as bad as what’s fitted to modern JLRs.
Well, probably anything is possible (however I very much struggle with facelift AFS headlights retrofit - to make AFS work)... Some soldering on circuit boards may be needed I bet...
The DSP function is only in the XK, the XF didn't have it.
Not there in the XF
The Dolby & 3-channel processing is in the amplifier.
Obviously the head unit itself contributes to the sound quality too.
The china screens use a little black box to convert analogue to MOST, so the "better" audio in that setup is from the analogue source of the china screen, and the ADC in the little black box.
@Cambo I believe your theory is correct. Too many people just throw in aftermarket speakers without other changes and are disappointed in the results. It's happened to me in the past. I think it comes down to 2 different theories of Car Audio.
The manufacturers use extremely efficient speakers that can be driven loudly by low power. They mask the limitations of these OEM speakers with DSP. Obviously, the driving force behind this is that it can be done cheap. That being said, sometimes these OEM systems can sound really good (or at least a lot better than you would expect.)
The aftermarket car audio industry sells based on power. They use relatively insensitive speakers designed to be driven loud by a much larger expenditure of power. They are usually better made, they are made to look cool (since you actually see the aftermarket speakers when buying) and they have a pretty flat frequency response.
There are problems whenever these two systems are mixed together. Just throwing new aftermarket speakers into matching holes without thought to depth of mounting, and usually not paying attention to sensitivity ratings can cause a couple of bad reactions. First, these aftermarket speakers aren't powered high enough from the factory system to sound their best. This can be seen in a large drop in volume and often the cost of bass. In short, they usually sound anemic. Second, being basically capable of flat production of music, aftermarket speakers "show off" the DSP that was used to give the factory speakers as good a sound as they could. This will cause large variations in frequency response that won't be flattering when not used with the DSP's designated speakers.
This is why our pioneer forefathers always advised switching out headunits and adding amps along with speaker additions. With the ubiquitous introduction and dominance of "Infotainment Systems" replacing the head unit is often not a realistic proposition as the infotainment system controls a whole bunch of other stuff too. Thus, the rise of "CleanSweep" type products that de-DSP the sound so you can use your infotainment system with aftermarket components. These have their own level of difficulties because mixing the 2 types of car audio always does.
Please let me know if I am understanding this basically correctly.
Could you just apply a resistor to the tweeter +VE?
Could you just apply a resistor to the tweeter +VE?
Well, you need to put something ahead of a tweeter if you are sending a full range signal to it. I don't know from what you've written whether you are looking for a simple crossover, or to lower the output. A capacitor could block bass, and a resistor can lower the db output of the tweeter.
Well, you need to put something ahead of a tweeter if you are sending a full range signal to it. I don't know from what you've written whether you are looking for a simple crossover, or to lower the output. A capacitor could block bass, and a resistor can lower the db output of the tweeter.
That's exactly it. Everyone feels the treble overpowers midrange using the factory audio despite DSP so has anyone tried an inline resistor to attenuate the tweeter?
That's exactly it. Everyone feels the treble overpowers midrange using the factory audio despite DSP so has anyone tried an inline resistor to attenuate the tweeter?
I hadn't replied to this post since I don't own an XK (at least not yet). If you choose the right resister it could help bring the tweeters back into a more comfortable balance with the other car speakers. What material are the tweeters made of? I don't have the same issues with my XE most of the time. When it comes up sounding tinny that usually comes back to the recording or the use of SBC in bluetooth.
I tapped my 380W "Meridian" amp and fed it into a JBL MS-8 which evens out the sound that comes in and sends out Logic 7 in a surround sound system. I added 2 multichannel Class D amps to power the OEM speakers.
Originally Posted by Sean W
I added a crossover. It helped
Crossovers are very helpful both in tweeter protection and in getting the right parts of the signal to the speaker that can best handle that part of the sound. The crossovers I added had a choice of lowering the tweeter by 3dbs if wanted.
I've ordered a pair of X type Alpine tweeters as a cheap attempt to improve because some feel that the silk come is less harsh than the aluminium one in the B&W system.
Next step is to replace the midrange with more sensitive speakers that are more responsive at lower frequencies than stock with cross-overs.
Ultimately I may end up with the Chinese Tesla style unit that seems to have better DSP. It's a much bigger step visually and cost-wise.
I've ordered a pair of X type Alpine tweeters as a cheap attempt to improve because some feel that the silk come is less harsh than the aluminium one in the B&W system.
Next step is to replace the midrange with more sensitive speakers that are more responsive at lower frequencies than stock with cross-overs.
Ultimately I may end up with the Chinese Tesla style unit that seems to have better DSP. It's a much bigger step visually and cost-wise.
That was what I was getting at but hadn't mentioned. Some people find metal tweeters to be shrill. I have a Chinese Head Unit in my XE. It works surprisingly well, and gives me the 10.25 touchscreen.
That was what I was getting at but hadn't mentioned. Some people find metal tweeters to be shrill. I have a Chinese Head Unit in my XE. It works surprisingly well, and gives me the 10.25 touchscreen.
I've just fitted a pair of X350 Alpine tweeters in place of the aluminium dome ones and the sound is much more pleasant. The treble is less shrill and the whole system sounds a bit more mellow. Best of all the cost was only about £20 thanks to fleabay and the swap takes seconds and maintains the factory look.
I still think I will end up swapping the door speakers for a JL Audio 2 way component set to improve the midrange, but until I get to it it is a nicer sound to live with. Muse sounds sweet!
In the long lost past I operated an auto restoration shop which included installing various electron devices as well as complete over the top stereo systems.
I am currently semi retired and no longer in that industry but my love of properly sounding music has not faded over the years.
I currently have a 2008 XK convertible with the Alpine System, it is lacking to say the least.
I don’t want to make a major investment in the sound system of this particular car but would like a better sound.
My investigation has led me to seriously consider a bit more investment than I initially wanted to do.
The components would include an Audison Bit -10 sound processor, a new amp to be determined and 4 new speakers (doors+ rear panels).
The key is the Audison uinit, It will allow the enduser to ‘grab’ all of the oem analog output, sum it and then ‘produce’ 5 channels (or more with the bit1) of new digital frequencies with the ability to configure the cut off points, frequency ranges, slope, time delays, etc for each individual channel using a pc.
(there is also the bit1 which offers different options/configurations)
I probably won’t get into this sound upgrade until I handle various other mechanical concerns (springs/shocks) but I thought I’d share this little insight just in case someone else wants to jump in with both feet and report back.
That Audison Unit looks really good! Keep us posted on how it turns out. I've been using the JBL MS-8. Sadly, it's not made anymore but it does give me logic 7. There's not many players in the processor field- at least not that I am aware of.
09-25-2021, 06:08 PM
