X150 XK/XKR audio/speaker upgrade investigation
#101
It isnt necessary to aim the speakers at the listener. Because you are not equidistant to the speakers anyway.
So reflected sound can actually be your friend- you will never have perfect direct sound- you can have perfect indirect diffused sound.
In other words, you cant get stereo sitting on one side- you can get surround sound.
You dont have enough space in the door.
Their definition of a subwoofer is a driver that can take lot more power. Thus it can make more bass.
You will never fix the stereo in an XK with different drivers- you will only make it different. And the drivers you have now are better suited than the drivers you will get.
So reflected sound can actually be your friend- you will never have perfect direct sound- you can have perfect indirect diffused sound.
In other words, you cant get stereo sitting on one side- you can get surround sound.
You dont have enough space in the door.
Their definition of a subwoofer is a driver that can take lot more power. Thus it can make more bass.
You will never fix the stereo in an XK with different drivers- you will only make it different. And the drivers you have now are better suited than the drivers you will get.
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Sean W (12-06-2017)
#103
Ask away if you have subsequent questions.
I hope everyone realizes that changing drivers has always been the best way improving sound. Until the car makers got in the game and effectively ensured they cut out the aftermarket stuff. Its just like a head unit, it simply cant be changed, or tapped.
Hannity is a eunuch- deserves the Nobel prize.
I hope everyone realizes that changing drivers has always been the best way improving sound. Until the car makers got in the game and effectively ensured they cut out the aftermarket stuff. Its just like a head unit, it simply cant be changed, or tapped.
Hannity is a eunuch- deserves the Nobel prize.
#105
FWIW
The reason they are aiming the drivers is because off-axis, most drivers are uneven.
But keep in mind you dont have to change the orientation of the driver to direct the sound more towards you. You can use an acoustic lens, similar to cupping your ears to hear better.
This is an acoustic lens. Note how the tweeter is being fired up into top saucer, and the midrange below it is doing the same. That is one of the principal flaws in our cars, you have direct sound from the tweeter- i.e high efficiency, and the midrange is indirect. And guess what's missing- yup the midrange.
The reason they are aiming the drivers is because off-axis, most drivers are uneven.
But keep in mind you dont have to change the orientation of the driver to direct the sound more towards you. You can use an acoustic lens, similar to cupping your ears to hear better.
This is an acoustic lens. Note how the tweeter is being fired up into top saucer, and the midrange below it is doing the same. That is one of the principal flaws in our cars, you have direct sound from the tweeter- i.e high efficiency, and the midrange is indirect. And guess what's missing- yup the midrange.
#108
High frequencies are also reflected by glass, whereas base and mids can pass through, compounding any sound stage equalization.
#109
I needed a new 'winter' car, so I acquired a 'new to me' 2014 Lexus IS350 AWD, and started to look around to see if there were any options/mods/upgrades available for it. Pretty sure I was on a Lexus accessories page (but I can't find that original page again) that took me to a 3rd party vendor that is making an audio upgrade for this model, because Lexus 'got it wrong'. Says they are currently in the pre-order stage ($1200) for a DIY kit, that includes 'plug-and-play' filters for the door speakers, a drop-in replacement subwoofer and enclosure, and a dedicated amp for the sub, along with all associated wiring.
Appear to have kits for some other brand vehicles (Toyota, Subaru, Scion, hmmm... all Japanese).
#110
I would suspect 'under' that.
I needed a new 'winter' car, so I acquired a 'new to me' 2014 Lexus IS350 AWD, and started to look around to see if there were any options/mods/upgrades available for it. Pretty sure I was on a Lexus accessories page (but I can't find that original page again) that took me to a 3rd party vendor that is making an audio upgrade for this model, because Lexus 'got it wrong'. Says they are currently in the pre-order stage ($1200) for a DIY kit, that includes 'plug-and-play' filters for the door speakers, a drop-in replacement subwoofer and enclosure, and a dedicated amp for the sub, along with all associated wiring.
Appear to have kits for some other brand vehicles (Toyota, Subaru, Scion, hmmm... all Japanese).
I needed a new 'winter' car, so I acquired a 'new to me' 2014 Lexus IS350 AWD, and started to look around to see if there were any options/mods/upgrades available for it. Pretty sure I was on a Lexus accessories page (but I can't find that original page again) that took me to a 3rd party vendor that is making an audio upgrade for this model, because Lexus 'got it wrong'. Says they are currently in the pre-order stage ($1200) for a DIY kit, that includes 'plug-and-play' filters for the door speakers, a drop-in replacement subwoofer and enclosure, and a dedicated amp for the sub, along with all associated wiring.
Appear to have kits for some other brand vehicles (Toyota, Subaru, Scion, hmmm... all Japanese).
#111
1) There appears to be enough space in the door. Is it possible, plausible, reasonable or most importantly, effective, to angle the speakers upward slightly? I realize this would require modification and in order to keep up an OEM appearance, angle the top of the speaker into the door rather than protrude the lower end out from it. Let's assume for this question, you found the speaker of your dreams and all other things are equal (yes I understand they aren't).
What's the difference between the sub woofer in the foot well and the door speakers? Yep, I'm just that dumb and I truly don't know. both are bass speakers 6 1/2".
What's the difference between the sub woofer in the foot well and the door speakers? Yep, I'm just that dumb and I truly don't know. both are bass speakers 6 1/2".
After giving this some thought and playing with what I have on my '07 with the Alpine system I've found that leaving the basic settings mid range and tweaking the surround up three notches gives a pretty good sound. There's still a huge gap of missing mid range. Even backing the bass and treble off a couple notches doesn't help. JLR isn't overdriving the extremes, but forgot the mid range. I still think when it's all said and done a good mid range door speaker will improve the system a lot.
Cambo, did you ever find time to measure the door speaker mount? Pretty please.
Last edited by Ranchero50; 12-06-2017 at 04:41 PM.
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Sean W (12-06-2017)
#112
#113
#116
Get your arms around this if you can.
The good folks who made your "shitty stereo with compressed mp3"
Made a film on how "shitty mp3 is" and they won an award for the film!!
Distortion of Sound
It explains beautifully whats wrong with your stereo.
The good folks who made your "shitty stereo with compressed mp3"
Made a film on how "shitty mp3 is" and they won an award for the film!!
Distortion of Sound
It explains beautifully whats wrong with your stereo.
#117
Get your arms around this if you can.
The good folks who made your "shitty stereo with compressed mp3"
Made a film on how "shitty mp3 is" and they won an award for the film!!
Distortion of Sound
It explains beautifully whats wrong with your stereo.
The good folks who made your "shitty stereo with compressed mp3"
Made a film on how "shitty mp3 is" and they won an award for the film!!
Distortion of Sound
It explains beautifully whats wrong with your stereo.
Now translate my "mediocre" 192k compressed files played under not so ideal circumstances, ie: in a car, and it's even harder to tell the difference.
Of course, YMMV, and I have a slight hearing loss above 16k (as I would guess most of us here do as well ) but I think using a crappy source file is probably not even part of the issue at hand here. I would agree that the internal DSP and possibly even how the EQ is processed internally would be something to look at....
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Cee Jay (12-07-2017)
#118
The ulterior motive for Harman making this expensive film, was not to tell you that their previous technology was "shitty". It was to pave the way for their new technology...
But why a 'new' technology called 'clarify'?- because they are about to have their **** handed to them. There is a VHS vs Betamax war and Harman is about 2 years too late to the party. Major record labels and top manufacturers have signed on with the technology that I am involved in....
So the comparison isnt between MP3 and WAV, the comparison is between MP3 and Clarify- and yes the results are shocking. Even to the uninitiated and particularly in compromised environments such as a car or low fidelity applications.
We knew all this 4 years ago, when we could take a inexpensive DAC and turn it into something that sounded fabulous by simply using the DSD format. Sony stopped pushing CD players after that- instead started making DSD players that sounded better $20k cd players. Lynn too came out against CDs.
Bottomline is, you can make less than average electronics, speakers and space, sound fantastic, better than even the good stuff, with high resolution content.
I fell asleep in my sauna yesterday, when I was doing some testing and listening to high resolution through horrible built-in speakers which I normally cant stand. Yes its that good.
But why a 'new' technology called 'clarify'?- because they are about to have their **** handed to them. There is a VHS vs Betamax war and Harman is about 2 years too late to the party. Major record labels and top manufacturers have signed on with the technology that I am involved in....
So the comparison isnt between MP3 and WAV, the comparison is between MP3 and Clarify- and yes the results are shocking. Even to the uninitiated and particularly in compromised environments such as a car or low fidelity applications.
We knew all this 4 years ago, when we could take a inexpensive DAC and turn it into something that sounded fabulous by simply using the DSD format. Sony stopped pushing CD players after that- instead started making DSD players that sounded better $20k cd players. Lynn too came out against CDs.
Bottomline is, you can make less than average electronics, speakers and space, sound fantastic, better than even the good stuff, with high resolution content.
I fell asleep in my sauna yesterday, when I was doing some testing and listening to high resolution through horrible built-in speakers which I normally cant stand. Yes its that good.
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shemp (12-07-2017)
#119
ahh. Interesting. So the answer to too much processing is more processing. .
You are right, there has been "dynamics plugins" on the market for a while now in the digital mastering world.
This won't be much benefit to those of us who don't use totally decimated mp3 files but it still may improve (or at least change) the sound of the system as a whole with good source files, just like the "Loudness" button did on the old home stereos.....
All of this reminds me of a comic I saw in a recording studio a while back. It was a kid with an electric guitar and a huge rack full of digital processing equipment telling his grandfather that he can get his electric guitar to sound just like an acoustic.....
You are right, there has been "dynamics plugins" on the market for a while now in the digital mastering world.
This won't be much benefit to those of us who don't use totally decimated mp3 files but it still may improve (or at least change) the sound of the system as a whole with good source files, just like the "Loudness" button did on the old home stereos.....
All of this reminds me of a comic I saw in a recording studio a while back. It was a kid with an electric guitar and a huge rack full of digital processing equipment telling his grandfather that he can get his electric guitar to sound just like an acoustic.....
#120
None of the old tricks to make music 'appear' better, ie. some dynamic manipulation. Nothing of the sort.
Preventing loses on the recording end.
Basically there is so much information previously missing that even losses of low fidelity electronics are not only sustained but the net quality vastly improved.
The actual analogy is a live electric guitar being played through a distortion pedal, soundboard, being amplified by low fidelity Crown (Harman)amps, out through crappy carpeted speakers, and the bloody thing sounds better than the best hifi,- the difference is tons of information on the front end, enough to spare for losses on the back.
Preventing loses on the recording end.
Basically there is so much information previously missing that even losses of low fidelity electronics are not only sustained but the net quality vastly improved.
The actual analogy is a live electric guitar being played through a distortion pedal, soundboard, being amplified by low fidelity Crown (Harman)amps, out through crappy carpeted speakers, and the bloody thing sounds better than the best hifi,- the difference is tons of information on the front end, enough to spare for losses on the back.