V, on the oil properties subject. Set aside our cars and castrol for a minute.
Big difference between group 3 oils and group 4/5 oil. In performance and cost.

If you look around for other oils with the same properties, group 4 or 5, extended drain, low ash, low atomization.
They all cost the same or more.
Castrol syth is cheap group 3 oil- which is essentially a slight modification of mineral or dino oil. Castrol Edge OE is group4/5 which cost many times more.
Moreover, they are sold the same way too from all brands. i.e its very hard to find group 4. In a way the Castrol is the easiest to find, can walk into any Jaguar dealer. Try that with Amsoil the only alternative to the spec, even the dealer has to order it.
Nearly all racing oils are the same way. And Audi/BMW oils are the same way.


pwpacp turned me on to a great source which makes Castrol for me the least expensive and easiest to obtain group 5 oil even if I did not have a jaguar.

I wont not put anything less than group 4 in any of my cheap cars. It cleans better, preserves the seals better and last twice as long, so its a no-brainer.
I would not put anything in my Jaguar that could not stand up to the shear from direct injection carbon. Which is the GL5 rating for wear.

 

On the subject of oil certification, didn't Jaguar change the certification for the 5.0 part way through the 5.0 XK/XKR production? I read somewhere that they simply stopped using the old Ford certification number and assigned their own but the actual oils are interchangeable, is that correct?

 

 

Go buy and use any high quality oil of the correct viscosity. You'll be fine.

 

I use the Titanium... It is GF-5...
V

 

 

 

Thanks for the video. Good stuff.

So where does the Castrol OE professional oil sit on this list? If we have been using the OE- Pro religiously, where do we stand at 50k miles as far as crud buildup?
I know you can't answer that question but just wondering if the Castrol OE will help minimize valve crud buildup without a catch can.

 

We are in excellent hands. Especially if you stuck with the original 5-20 spec. There is a pretty easy way fro us commoners to measure evap loss.
Measure the oil you remove. I always do, there is minimal loss even with annual oil change.

We are pretty problem free to well beyond 100k miles judging by Range Rovers who have crossed that threshold without requirement for valve cleaning. Also you will be able to tell if you have loss of power or spontaneity.

 

I don't do the oil changes myself on this car, mostly because of the inability to get the Castrol OE. Dealer cost isn't too bad but I have a guy that buys from our dealer and it's just easier for me to pay him to do it. That said, I have not been able to measure oil removed, but it has always had dealer serviced oil changes with 5W20 since new (according to the records when I bought it.

This I don't totally agree with because loss of power will be slow and graduate as the carbon builds up over years. But I get what you are implying, it's possible for those of us who pay close attention to performance.

 

Has anyone installed a quality oil catch can on their 5.0 XK/R yet?
If so, maybe they could share some installation tips and their experience with it for the group.

 

Will this hand pump work for oil changes on 2010 XF 5.0?

: https://www.lowes.com/pd/hopkins-siphon-pump/1000731538?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-google-_-lia-_-107-_-lubricants-_-1000731538-_-0&kpid&store_code=1058&k_clickID=go_625671256_4744 2150442_217425881028_pla-297345646778_c_9027582&gclid=CjwKCAiA2fjjBRAjEiwAu ewS_QH7NONXLWLRROKkzTNyOEwS8ug_h7hQOBiLax0JaxkYUbn AbHiE8xoCYegQAvD_BwE

 

It SHOULD work, but as oil is thicker and therefore resistant to travel, it may be a workout for your arms to empty the sump. Also, you may need to use adapter lines to make the intake line fit tight to the sump pickup tube under the oil filler cap. Also, since the oil needs to be above ambient temps to properly flow, your grasping hand may get a tad warm. An electric pump would probably be better utilized in this case.

 

No idea on that pump, sorry pnguy28, but Home Depot has a extractor with 7.5qt tank for $40.

Q&C,
Need to get a few things out here...
First is your use of an Amsoil chart. The volatility rating of 11 is the exact same number for JLRs Edge Professional, so again, consumer grade equals Jaguar grade.

Second is thinking Jaguar did anything 'special' to the 5.0l. I’ll go out on a limb here with another educated guess that the driving force behind the development of our 5.0l was more likely emissions, not power. Failing emerging emission regulations shuts down your company. Failing to provide more HP will not. JLR was simply forced abandon the trusted 2 decade old 4.2l to catch up to where it should have been back around 2002. I would suspect the cost to update such an outdated block nearly matched the cost to develop a new and ‘less outdated’ engine.

I did say “less outdated”, not “modern”. When you look engines of the last two decades, you’ll see that Jaguar has put absolutely nothing 'new' in the 5.0l.creation. It was all there, and in use by other car manufacturers’ years earlier.
This includes mechanical tolerances on any critical components that I can tell. I have looked at areas such as crankshaft bearing clearances (0.022 - .040mm) , or cam journal clearances (0.025 - 0.065mm) and they are no tighter than any engine made in the last 2 decades.
..

There is serious good money in maintenance, and it makes financial sense to create unobtainium oil to secure the customers return to a dealership rather than an independent shop. Why not, when you can offer Castrol exclusive sales for 7 years by taking a already produced product and tweeking an additive by 1% to call it 'JLR exclusive'? Win-Win for both companies with virtually no cash outlay, but guaranteed high income from owners bringing cars back to just them!

I can't find anything unique about the 5.0l construction to justify why I need Jaguars unobtainium! Especially since the off the shelf Castrol has the exact same Flash point, Pour point, Density, Viscosity index and Noack Volatility numbers......

It all just smells like one big marketing game created by Jaguar.
Vince

(I'd welcome thoughts or information from anyone that counters or clarifies my educated guess, because in the end that is all I'm offering here....)

 

The oil strategies on the AJ133 are revolutionary. So much so that Ford licenses the technology from Jaguar.
I have friends who were part of that. I have posted the patents elsewhere on this forum.
They have done multiple things with oil that has never been done before, thus the patents.

Yes all to do with power and character, little to do with emissions.

BTW, your sentiment that Jaguar might not be as advanced in this arena is misplaced. They have always been at the apex of cam innovation- from the beginning, and still number1.
Guess the first engine in the world with electronic valves, i.e. no camshafts, timing chain, etc, Jaguar's Engenium engine. http://www.camcon-automotive.com/ivt-presentation
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ciency-diesels

That chart I posted was to show you the Castrol you use is not good for noack, cheaper Pennzoil is much superior.

 

OK, thanks.... Ill go research the patents... If you've posted them here they should be easy to locate the technical details to a degree.

My point on the Amsoil chart is that you say a Castrol with noack rating of 11 is not good for our cars, yet Jaguar disagrees...
Also note that I said this 5.0l brings nothing new to the table (which your comment on patents may easily prove me wrong).... Not Jaguar as a whole.

Vince

 

I was being lazy.
Here is one of the patents.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7841310B2/en

 

Indeed a valid patent.

Nitpicking a tad though, it was filed in 2006, so technically a Ford patent (yes, its inventor worked in GB, and most likely a JLR employee).

Next is that I could not match the patent to the part used on our engines (P/N C2P13996).
However, the valve (C2P13996) was used from 2007 onward, so again, it shows Jaguars 5.0l did not introduce it as 'new' technology.

Back to the oil discussion, if the same valve was used from 2007 on, then Jaguar spec oil (Castrol Professional with new and improved unobtainium) was never needed for this particular part.

V

 

• Jaguar is the inventor and IP owner. Ford pays Jaguar royalty on this. That's from the horse's mouth. (and how I came across all this)
• This is for the Jaguar oil actuated VVT in AJ133 Gen3
• There are at least 10 other good brands of oil formulated to this specification, so its very real. (which begs the most obvious question: why not chose one of them, what empirical evidence do you have against this specification?)

 

Good questions all.....
Again, as Jaguar was owned by Ford at the time of invention, I can only assume any inventions made were done off Ford dollars, and therefore property of Ford International LLC.
I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that the parent company which owns all of you, would own any patents made by you.

Also, if you research the Jaguar part number, it was also used on the 2007 and on 4.2l. Where possible error may occur is if the part was backward compatible to the 4.2l and parts resources simply used the newest 'revision'. Perhaps someone with access to a parts catalog from 2009 would be able to verify that, until then I agree there exists a margin of error on my part. However, the invention was made prior to filing for the patent in Dec 2007.

As for the oil, Jaguar specifically states Castro is the collaborative inventor. 'Castrol Edge (titanium) Professional' carries the Jaguar certification. I simply looked up the specification sheets on both consumer Castrol Edge titanium, and Castrol Edge (titanium) Professional. This is where I found nearly a perfect match between the two (+/- <1%). Consumer Edge did not list the Volatility number, but the Jaguar approved Professional did. Your Amsoil filled in that blank, which is an exact match to the Jaguar spec oil.



Speaking of Volatility.... some info others might be interested in….

First…. There is no such thing as multi-grade oil. All oils are created as a ‘base viscosity’.
Summer/Winter viscosity is achieved by additives to a base compound. It is those additives that alter the compound as needed.
Volatility of oils as a whole must include these additives, which also vaporize out of the compound through time and heating cycles.
What this means is that the additive which controls viscosity slowly evaporates, and the base oil is allowed to return closer to its original weight.

Rough Example: An oil with a 10/30W rating will degrade over time, and revert to something closer to a straight 30 weight as additives evaporate.
If the Jaguar oil volatility is a higher number, then theoretically this viscosity breakdown could happen much quicker than ones with a lower volatility.

Yet another reason I tend to error on the safe side with more frequent changes…