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JLR updated their Oil Specification / Requirements no less than 5 times in the last 5 years... the most recent spec I have is from February 2018...
If someone want's to collate this information into something more digestible, here are all the bulletins...
Nice one, thanks for that. The (very) short version is, the current applicable oil standard from JLR for the AJ133 5.0 V8 is STJLR.03.5006. According to that document, the only oil which carries that Castrol Edge Professional E C5 0W-20.
Use good oil, either 5W-30 or 0W-30.
You will do fine.
In all probability, yes you will - but if you still have some sort of warranty and are unlucky enough to have any sort of engine failure, one of the things they'd look to use as a get-out would be whether or not the car has been serviced with the correct oil.
If someone want's to collate this information into something more digestible, here are all the bulletins...
Excelent. Thanks Cambo!
In review of Cambos data as it relates to the 5.0l only:
Juy 2014 Jaguar shifted to the new STJLR identifiers. No viscosity change per engine mentioned. (JLRP00019)
Jul 2015 Jaguar indicates viscosity change for 5.0l manufactured on or after 2015 or cold climate to STJLR.51.5122 (0w-20) (JLRP00046)
STJLR.03.5004 (5w-20) up to and including MY 2014 remains in effect.
Feb 2018 Jaguar indicates viscosity change for all 5.0l to STJLR.03.5006 (0w-20) (JLRP00119)
Quote: (STJLR.03.5006) will now replace the previously recommended Castrol EDGE Professional E 0W-20
(STJLR.51.5122) for AJ133. Note: This document states STJLR.03.5006 (0w-20) replaces only STJLR.51.5122 (0w-20)... It does not replace STJLR.03.5004 (5w-20).
The other JLRP documents to do pertain to the AJ133 engine.
V
Last edited by CleverName; 03-12-2019 at 05:54 PM.
Its funny how we hang on to every word JLR publishes.
As we should, they are in the car business and moron at Jiffy Lube who says anything goes, may or may not have any OEM experience.
I feel guilty not allowing Jaguar to get any compensation from me on the oil while still relying on them to keep up the research.
Another expert who can tell us with some certainty which oil not to use is probably this guy.
as of my last oil change, the dealer put in 5W20. But I'm in TX.... If we get near -35, starting a car will not be of worry as we'll all be dead.
I stayed with 5W20, never switched over.
My reasoning: I did not need the 0W to address oil pressure issues JLR was fighting. (this is one of the reasons they came up with the drain back plug in the patent I posted above). Cause I keep my engine cleaner than average.
While the 0W helps timing chain reach tension quicker and the phasing of the cams- it is also more volatile in terms or evaporation, i.e. more carbon build up.
Ok, I’ll admit that I am no oil expert, but as a layman, I’m a bit surprised to see Jaguar using such a light oil in such a big engine. Yes, I’ve been using 0w20 in my little 2.0 Subaru engine, but my understanding was that was the sort of high efficiency motor that grade was designed for. And by the way I still burn at least a quart between oil changes, and have blamed the lightness of the oil. I would have thought with the much more powerful 5.0 ( granted that is over double the cylinders) that you would be using the stronger pistons and rings that would benefit from a bit thicker oil. But I guess everyone is designed to such tight tolerances now, you don’t need that extra viscosity. Learn something new everyday.
Ok, I’ll admit that I am no oil expert, but as a layman, I’m a bit surprised to see Jaguar using such a light oil in such a big engine. Yes, I’ve been using 0w20 in my little 2.0 Subaru engine, but my understanding was that was the sort of high efficiency motor that grade was designed for. And by the way I still burn at least a quart between oil changes, and have blamed the lightness of the oil. I would have thought with the much more powerful 5.0 ( granted that is over double the cylinders) that you would be using the stronger pistons and rings that would benefit from a bit thicker oil. But I guess everyone is designed to such tight tolerances now, you don’t need that extra viscosity. Learn something new everyday.
My old Ferrari 308 used 20W-50 oil . 9 quarts and burned maybe 1/2 qt. in 3000 miles.
The TSB make no mention of oil issues.
The TSB is more likely addressing premature wear on the backside of the tensioner rails due to their aluminum construction. The rails are held tight via a steel tensioner plunger, which during idle is hammering the aluminum rail into deformity and causing the chain to leap teeth on the sockets.
This is identified in the tentative class action law suit filed against Jaguar for damage causing up to $20,000 in repair for an engine having 40k - 50k miles on it.
So that I can tell, the choice of aluminum is at fault, not the oiling system.
Has anyone installed a quality oil catch can on their 5.0 XK/R yet?
If so, maybe they could share some installation tips and their experience with it for the group.
I have yet to see one installed on an XKR X150 and have done quite a bit of looking. I've seen a pair of them installed on an XK8 X100, one on each side of the engine bay at the firewall. There isn't much room otherwise, and few mounting options. Please let me know if you find an example in an XKR X150.
The TSB is more likely addressing premature wear on the backside of the tensioner rails due to their aluminum construction. The rails are held tight via a steel tensioner plunger, which during idle is hammering the aluminum rail into deformity and causing the chain to leap teeth on the sockets.
This is identified in the tentative class action law suit filed against Jaguar for damage causing up to $20,000 in repair for an engine having 40k - 50k miles on it.
So that I can tell, the choice of aluminum is at fault, not the oiling system.
V
That just repeats what the lawyers for the lawsuit wrote and believed it hook line and sinker.
If there was an ounce of validity to that engineering claim, many of us on this forum would be replacing tensioners.
I bet not 1% here have. Which makes it one helluva aluminium.
It a complex web, that starts with the oil. Thats why timing chain wear is a test on the new G5 oil standards.
But if you believe that there is nothing new in this engine, or new oil strategy, then it brings discussion to a screeching halt.
Here is a great article from Car and Driver on the radical new technology VVT in 5.0 Jaguars. https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ystem-feature/
[QUOTE=Queen and Country;2039087
But if you believe that there is nothing new in this engine, or new oil strategy, then it brings discussion to a screeching halt.[/QUOTE]
Thank God....
I always look forward to accurate data. However you point us to an article on how Ford first introduced Cam phasing in 2009. Also note the article says absolutely nothing about oil 'strategies'. It merely describes its function.........(which by the way was done using 5w-20 oil meeting WSS-M2C930-A. specs.)
(Oh! Wait!.... does that mean this technology was in use prior to the Jaguar 5.0l? )
So yes, thanks to that article, I still believe 'that there is nothing new in this engine, or new oil strategy' as I stated some odd 50 posts ago.
So as I said.... Thank God this finally 'brings discussion to a screeching halt'
V
Oh... Also note several videos showing the tensioner failure, this is one that shows the problem and upgraded part.
Do you know what happened to that class action lawsuit on tensioners?...
JLR asked it be thrown out on grounds that 1person and 1 incident does not constitute a widespread problem.
Speaking of data, do you have any on what percentage of tensioners fail?
JLR believes its an insignificant amount. And while I have seen premature water pump failures in the majority, I havent even seen tensioner failures in the minority.
Just found this thread - early (2010-2012) Jaguar 5.0 engines absolutely do have a problem with timing guides wearing, they even make reference to this in the Workshop Manual where they advise you must fit the redesigned tensioner blade that has a disc of hardened metal on the back to combat the issue:
I had to rebuild the 5.0 S/C engine in my XF (spun connecting rod bearings due to oil starvation - rebuild thread here) and my timing guide blades had a hole worn into the back of them that was 1.8-1.9mm deep:
This hole reduced the tension on the chains enough that they rattled around in the front of the engine enough to cause burrs in the aluminium webbing and holes in the engine block:
Pretty hard to imagine that this didn't result in particles of metal in my oil, so my thinking is this definitely could have contributed to my engine failure.
Also interested to know more about the lawsuit given the above.
Just found this thread - early (2010-2012) Jaguar 5.0 engines absolutely do have a problem with timing guides wearing, they even make reference to this in the Workshop Manual where they advise you must fit the redesigned tensioner blade that has a disc of hardened metal on the back to combat the issue:
I had to rebuild the 5.0 S/C engine in my XF (spun connecting rod bearings due to oil starvation - rebuild thread here) and my timing guide blades had a hole worn into the back of them that was 1.8-1.9mm deep:
This hole reduced the tension on the chains enough that they rattled around in the front of the engine enough to cause burrs in the aluminium webbing and holes in the engine block:
Pretty hard to imagine that this didn't result in particles of metal in my oil, so my thinking is this definitely could have contributed to my engine failure.
Also interested to know more about the lawsuit given the above.
What mileage did your 5.0 SC engine have, when you had to open it?
Edit: was reading your rebuild thread. I think you wrote there it was 85k miles.
Also interested to know more about the lawsuit given the above.
Tibbsy, you are a bloody legend and a trailblazer mate!
If you can figure out and eliminate if there are any external factors responsible for the wear of the guides, I will give you a hand and join you. (I have lots of contacts and support in this community, my brother just won a class action against the largest aircraft engine manufacturer- a Goliath)
Man, just when a guy thinks he has got things figured out...BAM, along comes the oil controversy. I have been combing through the threads because I am about to embark on changing the oil on my XKR. I was planning on the usual 5w-20, but then I read about the 0w-20. It's enough to make a guys or gals head spin for sure. What is interesting is the additional information offered by davetibbs on the the 2010-2012 chain tensioner guides. Obviously this peaked my interest because my car is a 2010 model. With 27k miles on the clock I really am keeping my fingers crossed to try everything I can to avoid any potential issue with these guides. I would really like to do what I can to be pro-active. But, I am still on the fence as to whether I should change to the lower viscosity 0w-20 oil? Any of your veteran owners have any last minute advice on which oil I should use???
Tibbsy, you are a bloody legend and a trailblazer mate!
Ah mate, having lived in the US for almost 6 years now sometimes I miss being greeted by a fellow Brit
Originally Posted by Queen and Country
If you can figure out and eliminate if there are any external factors responsible for the wear of the guides, I will give you a hand and join you.
Not sure if we can ever really get a definitive answer to that, although I'd say that JLR's redesign of the timing guide (to include a disc of hardened metal on the back where it contacts the striker pin of the tensioner) at least tells us:
That JLR were aware of the issue internally from at least before the redesigned timing guides were released
That they considered the timing guides and possibly the tensioner pins to be at fault, since these were the only parts that were redesigned
That due to the changes in the redesign, they must have come to the conclusion that the guides had either worn (losing metal) or had the hole compressed into them by the strength of the tensioner and the hardness of the tensioner pin, and that this had lowered tension on the timing chains
That the problem was serious enough to warrant not only a redesign of the guides from that point on but also include a warning notice in the Workshop Manual
While we're on the subject of timing chains, did you know that there were two different pitches of chain fitted to the Jaguar 5.0 engines - 6.35mm and 8.0mm - though it seems after a certain date or VIN they were all 8.0mm. I've also not found anything to suggest that the Land Rover engines ever had 6.35mm chains fitted to them, though I'd love to be proven wrong on that point. Where it gets interesting is that this means that everything the timing chains touch - the crankshaft sprockets, the VVTs, the oil pump drive sprocket and the high-pressure fuel pump camshaft sprocket all have to be the same pitch as the chains, and there were obviously two versions of each made - though there were obviously a lot less 6.35mm chains/VVTs/etc made as they were only fitted for a certain number of VINs.
However based on a recent member's experience in the XF forum, I would be willing to bet that JLR have exhausted their supply of 6.35mm auxiliary drive chains (i.e. the one that drives the oil pump and fuel pumps) as they were quoted for fitment of new 6.35mm chains (at a price of almost $500 each if I remember correctly, so I bet they're running low on stock) but also instead of a 6.35mm auxiliary drive chain, they quote had a new 8.0mm crankshaft auxiliary drive sprocket, oil pump sprocket, and fuel pump camshaft as well as an 8.0mm chain - the price of these parts alone was well over $1k. This would suggest that the dealers are now being forced to upgrade any future 6.35mm auxiliary drive chains/sprockets to 8.0mm as they've run out of 6.35mm chains.
Where this could get really sticky is once JLR run out of 6.35mm primary chains (i.e. the ones that drive the cams), then any owners wanting new ones will also be forced to buy 4 new VVTs too, along with the new fuel pump cam and oil pump drive sprocket.
Whether it's fair to expect customers to foot the bill of these parts necessitated by JLR's own design changes is a different argument...
I changed all my parts from 6.35mm to 8.0mm chains when I rebuilt my engine.
I just got the entire court docket (paperwork filled) from my brother.
Will send you a PM as I am unsure if it is publicly shareable.
Perhaps you can discuss some of the points on this forum.
I believe you might have an additional point about the pitch, i.e. there is an additional expense burden perhaps missed by the lawsuit.
The one mistake I believe the lawyers are making is only looking at engines with catastrophic failure (such as yours) I bet if they were to measure chain slack they might realize its even more widespread. Wonder if there is a way to quantifiably and easily measure chain deflection?
A 2010 XKR forum member just had a dealer tell him there was extreme slack, without charging him, how did they know? From the oil fill port?
03-12-2019, 04:26 PM
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