XK Vs.F-Type target market.
#181
Sure does - despite the fact that it always finishes near the back of the pack when it comes to running fast on a road/street course. It is not a car that can be safely pushed to its limit, despite the low weight. A mid-engined Boxter or Cayman should outlap it with much less engine power.
Albert
Albert
#182
Current F-type is not a track car
Why so much discussion about weight and track times.
I recently bought a XKR with dynamic pack and performance exhaust. I bought an elegant classy street GT. I also considered the Nissan GT-R which is much more track oriented and would make the XKR look silly on the track. On the other hand the XKR shines on the street. The cars are similar in the sense they are GT's. However, one is a phenomenal performance oriented car and the other is more street friendly. If I wanted a track car I would have bought the GT-R.
The current F-type is a more street friendly version. Jaguar has mentioned in numerous articles the F-type will be improved upon with every iteration. I can see an F-type RS being built for the track oriented while also offering a more street friendly version such as the current F-type. The current F-type is not built for the track; without a dual clutch transmission, weight considerations, beefed up suspension, launch control, AWD with electronic stability control, etc. it has a huge deficit.
I recently bought a XKR with dynamic pack and performance exhaust. I bought an elegant classy street GT. I also considered the Nissan GT-R which is much more track oriented and would make the XKR look silly on the track. On the other hand the XKR shines on the street. The cars are similar in the sense they are GT's. However, one is a phenomenal performance oriented car and the other is more street friendly. If I wanted a track car I would have bought the GT-R.
The current F-type is a more street friendly version. Jaguar has mentioned in numerous articles the F-type will be improved upon with every iteration. I can see an F-type RS being built for the track oriented while also offering a more street friendly version such as the current F-type. The current F-type is not built for the track; without a dual clutch transmission, weight considerations, beefed up suspension, launch control, AWD with electronic stability control, etc. it has a huge deficit.
#183
#185
Let's play:
From the list of cars tested in Motor Trend's Best Drivers Cars comparison from previous page 9, indicate the 3 cars you would select in two categories. May give short reasons for choices but, do not thrash other people's choices, please.
Category 1:
Chose your favorite 3 cars if you were given them as a free gift. Money is not an object here. In the order of preference.
Category 2:
Chose your 3 favorite cars that you would spend your actual dollars on. In the order of preference.
To remind you, the cars in the test were:
Lamborghini Aventador
McLaren
Carrera S
XKR-s
Nissan GTR
Mustang Shelby 500GT
Camaro ZL1
Mercedes 6.3
Subaru
I'll start:
Cat 1:
1) Lambo Aventador - I owned two Lambos. They don't handle very well, rough, hard to drive but, "Oh My God", they are the closest you can come to riding a mad, raging bull. People will drop on their knees for a drive.
2) McLaren - Incredible performance and engineering.
3) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
Cat 2:
1) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
2) Mustang Shelby - Easy to modify; spend $3500 total for the following: higher rear-end gears, shorter springs, Wilwood front racing brakes, adjustable rear sway bar, tires, racing seats, cut weight and you will stick a heck of a race to the Aventador and the McLaren at Laguna Seca for less than 20 percent of the Lambo's price.
3) Camaro - I find it ugly as hell but, spend the same $3500 to gain several seconds off the listed lap times. Great performance bargain. Those magnetic shocks are tops!
Albert
From the list of cars tested in Motor Trend's Best Drivers Cars comparison from previous page 9, indicate the 3 cars you would select in two categories. May give short reasons for choices but, do not thrash other people's choices, please.
Category 1:
Chose your favorite 3 cars if you were given them as a free gift. Money is not an object here. In the order of preference.
Category 2:
Chose your 3 favorite cars that you would spend your actual dollars on. In the order of preference.
To remind you, the cars in the test were:
Lamborghini Aventador
McLaren
Carrera S
XKR-s
Nissan GTR
Mustang Shelby 500GT
Camaro ZL1
Mercedes 6.3
Subaru
I'll start:
Cat 1:
1) Lambo Aventador - I owned two Lambos. They don't handle very well, rough, hard to drive but, "Oh My God", they are the closest you can come to riding a mad, raging bull. People will drop on their knees for a drive.
2) McLaren - Incredible performance and engineering.
3) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
Cat 2:
1) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
2) Mustang Shelby - Easy to modify; spend $3500 total for the following: higher rear-end gears, shorter springs, Wilwood front racing brakes, adjustable rear sway bar, tires, racing seats, cut weight and you will stick a heck of a race to the Aventador and the McLaren at Laguna Seca for less than 20 percent of the Lambo's price.
3) Camaro - I find it ugly as hell but, spend the same $3500 to gain several seconds off the listed lap times. Great performance bargain. Those magnetic shocks are tops!
Albert
#186
The current F-type is a more street friendly version. Jaguar has mentioned in numerous articles the F-type will be improved upon with every iteration. I can see an F-type RS being built for the track oriented while also offering a more street friendly version such as the current F-type. The current F-type is not built for the track; without a dual clutch transmission, weight considerations, beefed up suspension, launch control, AWD with electronic stability control, etc. it has a huge deficit.
I see only incremental reduction in weight on the horizon for the highest performance iterations of the F if XK Series versions are any indication. Lots of aero mods, seats and cosmetics, and attention to suspension and electronic control of it. The ZF tranny is basically as good as a dual clutch already, launch control is only for 0-60 times, and many of the fastest cars are a well-executed rear wheel drive setups that don't need an AWD system or its weight penalty. GT-R keeps improving each year and is still trying to catch up to the faster rear wheel drive cars on high-speed race tracks. I just think if the F-Type was ever to be a lighter weight car it would have to have been designed along that line from the beginning.
#187
Albert,
Bearing in mind that I have an XKR, and it's close enough that I would rule out the R-S for that reason. Since I don't like most of the other cars, I'm going to go with the fun and lightweight Subaru FR-S for Cat 2, and a very well modified FR-S for Cat 1. It fits my definition of a sports car more than the others actually also, and think it could quite possibly be the most fun if it had a big power increase, decent suspension and great tires. Wouldn't get the most looks or be very exclusive, but neither were some of my other favorites from the past.
Bruce
Edit: Re : Cat1 choice. I'd be willing to accept a more expensive car for free...but only if I can sell it and buy one I like better!
Bearing in mind that I have an XKR, and it's close enough that I would rule out the R-S for that reason. Since I don't like most of the other cars, I'm going to go with the fun and lightweight Subaru FR-S for Cat 2, and a very well modified FR-S for Cat 1. It fits my definition of a sports car more than the others actually also, and think it could quite possibly be the most fun if it had a big power increase, decent suspension and great tires. Wouldn't get the most looks or be very exclusive, but neither were some of my other favorites from the past.
Bruce
Edit: Re : Cat1 choice. I'd be willing to accept a more expensive car for free...but only if I can sell it and buy one I like better!
Last edited by Bruce H.; 08-09-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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axr6 (08-08-2013)
#188
Let's play:
From the list of cars tested in Motor Trend's Best Drivers Cars comparison from previous page 9, indicate the 3 cars you would select in two categories. May give short reasons for choices but, do not thrash other people's choices, please.
Category 1:
Chose your favorite 3 cars if you were given them as a free gift. Money is not an object here. In the order of preference.
Category 2:
Chose your 3 favorite cars that you would spend your actual dollars on. In the order of preference.
To remind you, the cars in the test were:
Lamborghini Aventador
McLaren
Carrera S
XKR-s
Nissan GTR
Mustang Shelby 500GT
Camaro ZL1
Mercedes 6.3
Subaru
I'll start:
Cat 1:
1) Lambo Aventador - I owned two Lambos. They don't handle very well, rough, hard to drive but, "Oh My God", they are the closest you can come to riding a mad, raging bull. People will drop on their knees for a drive.
2) McLaren - Incredible performance and engineering.
3) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
Cat 2:
1) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
2) Mustang Shelby - Easy to modify; spend $3500 total for the following: higher rear-end gears, shorter springs, Wilwood front racing brakes, adjustable rear sway bar, tires, racing seats, cut weight and you will stick a heck of a race to the Aventador and the McLaren at Laguna Seca for less than 20 percent of the Lambo's price.
3) Camaro - I find it ugly as hell but, spend the same $3500 to gain several seconds off the listed lap times. Great performance bargain. Those magnetic shocks are tops!
Albert
From the list of cars tested in Motor Trend's Best Drivers Cars comparison from previous page 9, indicate the 3 cars you would select in two categories. May give short reasons for choices but, do not thrash other people's choices, please.
Category 1:
Chose your favorite 3 cars if you were given them as a free gift. Money is not an object here. In the order of preference.
Category 2:
Chose your 3 favorite cars that you would spend your actual dollars on. In the order of preference.
To remind you, the cars in the test were:
Lamborghini Aventador
McLaren
Carrera S
XKR-s
Nissan GTR
Mustang Shelby 500GT
Camaro ZL1
Mercedes 6.3
Subaru
I'll start:
Cat 1:
1) Lambo Aventador - I owned two Lambos. They don't handle very well, rough, hard to drive but, "Oh My God", they are the closest you can come to riding a mad, raging bull. People will drop on their knees for a drive.
2) McLaren - Incredible performance and engineering.
3) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
Cat 2:
1) XKR-s - so what if it finished last. IT IS GORGEOUS!
2) Mustang Shelby - Easy to modify; spend $3500 total for the following: higher rear-end gears, shorter springs, Wilwood front racing brakes, adjustable rear sway bar, tires, racing seats, cut weight and you will stick a heck of a race to the Aventador and the McLaren at Laguna Seca for less than 20 percent of the Lambo's price.
3) Camaro - I find it ugly as hell but, spend the same $3500 to gain several seconds off the listed lap times. Great performance bargain. Those magnetic shocks are tops!
Albert
1. Aventaor
2. Mclaren
3. Xkr-s
Cat 2 (money is a factor-my life)
1. Xkr-s (hey, that's what I chose!)
2. Gtr
3. Carrera s
Cat 2- I actually shopped these cars + 997 turbo S and gt3 (eliminated gt3 due to no back seat)- final result- xkr-s, then 997 turbo s, then gtr
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axr6 (08-09-2013)
#190
Corvette vs F Type
Bruce
Understand your points. Still, I do not like to be blown off the race track, or in a street encounter, by much less expensive cars, such as the Vette, which SHOULD lap quite a bit quicker than the F-type, judging from the power-to-weight ratios and given the huge, 500 lbs, weight advantage.
Sure, it might be unfair to compare the F-type to my or your modified street racer but, you can directly compare it to the stock base or future upper-end Vettes which, by all accounts have beautiful street ride qualities for taking your gal to dinner AND killer track performance. So, you can have your cake and eat it too but, probably not in the F-type. It is hard to justify a 4000 lbs car as a sports car.
In all honesty, I have difficulty even with the added 100 lbs in weight of the new Vette following the change from steel to aluminum construction.
Albert
Understand your points. Still, I do not like to be blown off the race track, or in a street encounter, by much less expensive cars, such as the Vette, which SHOULD lap quite a bit quicker than the F-type, judging from the power-to-weight ratios and given the huge, 500 lbs, weight advantage.
Sure, it might be unfair to compare the F-type to my or your modified street racer but, you can directly compare it to the stock base or future upper-end Vettes which, by all accounts have beautiful street ride qualities for taking your gal to dinner AND killer track performance. So, you can have your cake and eat it too but, probably not in the F-type. It is hard to justify a 4000 lbs car as a sports car.
In all honesty, I have difficulty even with the added 100 lbs in weight of the new Vette following the change from steel to aluminum construction.
Albert
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axr6 (08-10-2013)
#192
I think I'll have those ones...
#193
I was lucky enough to be standing next to Lewis Hamilton's 2008 Championship-winning McLaren MP4-23 at the Goodwood Festival of Speed when they fired it up for a brief test prior to its run up the hill. Then they fired up Ayrton Senna's MP4/4 turbo from 1988.
I think I'll have those ones...
I think I'll have those ones...
I had a solid 4 days of Powerball dreaming, and my virtual garage was in flux many times. It's quite difficult thinking my 6 car garage, and then there's 2nd house on Lake Geneva...
#194
Decades back, being a licensed and experienced race-car driver, I offered a friend $2000 for a single lap driving at Sears Point Raceway of a 1980's vintage Ferrari F1 Turbo. The dirty dog turned me down so, end of friendship . (I would have turned anyone down too, if I owned that ultra-classic). That was one of two pristine F1 cars he owned.
Albert
#197
If the XK was upgraded with a new front end to look like the rest of the Jag fleet it would be a much better looking car than the F-Type. The F-Type does have a generic look with a less than inspiring rear end.....and just looks too small. A great performance road car has 95% that of a track car....and better road manners. I'll take the XKR all day long....but please Jag, do something about the front end styling.
#198
If the XK was upgraded with a new front end to look like the rest of the Jag fleet it would be a much better looking car than the F-Type. The F-Type does have a generic look with a less than inspiring rear end.....and just looks too small. A great performance road car has 95% that of a track car....and better road manners. I'll take the XKR all day long....but please Jag, do something about the front end styling.
I have the luxury of owning both an F and an XK and I enjoy both of them. I think the XK is the sexiest car on the road. I think the F-Type is (to quote Jeremy Clarkson) "Bite the back of your hand beautiful."
You are going to get your wish on the XK front end. Personally, having seen a hint of where Jag is going with the front end I think it's going to make the car LESS attractive. But that's the thing about beauty. It is in the eye of the checkbook holder
#199
I agree with you here. I think right now, the Jaguar lineup is in sort of a good place where each car shares similarities, but the designs don't look like carbon copies of one another with slight adjustments here and there to accommodate the different body styles. However, if the Q-Type gets the F-Type's front end and so does the XK, I don't see it being a good thing!
#200
If the XK was upgraded with a new front end to look like the rest of the Jag fleet it would be a much better looking car than the F-Type. The F-Type does have a generic look with a less than inspiring rear end.....and just looks too small. A great performance road car has 95% that of a track car....and better road manners. I'll take the XKR all day long....but please Jag, do something about the front end styling.
Albert