XK Vs.F-Type target market.
#221
The Cayman and Boxter are no doubt superior and modern designs. I'm personally still not taken by the front-end design-looks of these new cars but, by all accounts they are true sports cars; light weight with very good chassis. What they really need is to step-out from the shadows of that mythical 911, be given the same powerful engine choices and prove their absolute superiority to the 911. Of course, the 911 faithful will scream bloody murder, just as the article describes. But, can those screams of the faithful and tradition-loving prevent the ultimate progress at Porsche indefinitely?
Albert
Albert
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amcdonal86 (08-19-2013)
#222
I saw a decked out new Boxster S next to my parents' house this weekend on the Cape. Wow! I can say the new Boxster is no 911 wannabe. It has its own thing going on and it looks pretty hot. I am not a big Porsche fan, but this one could sway my next car buying decision for sure.
Last edited by bocatrip; 08-19-2013 at 09:05 PM.
#223
I was very close to taking the plunge on a 2014 981 Cayman except for one big issue. It has the DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) which Porsche calls their PDK. After test driving a number of cars I very surprised to find an intermittent hesitation from a dead start under heavy or moderate acceleration. At one time I was trying to cross an intersection and I almost had a heart attack. I pushed halfway down on the accelerator and nothing happened for a second or so until it then took off. After further on line investigation I found quite a view unhappy owners of not only the Boxster/Cayman with PDK but the 911 with PDK as well. It seems that the dual clutch transmission and the lack of a torque converter characteristically has a lag when accelerating. They say it's equivalent to the time it takes to engage the clutch from a start. This hesitation is scary when it occurs and Porsche has no fix at this time. The F Type uses a different transmission and is one of the few sports cars today not using a DCT. The Porsche Cayman is now out of my equation. It is a beautiful car.
#224
This is not a DCT problem; it is a Porsche PDK problem. Other brands don't have this problem with DCT. Most DCTs are much more solid and definite than conventional slush boxes and are only found in high end performance cars. Manual transmissions are dead and slush boxes will be soon.
Basically, pre-selection boxes would have to be psychic to always select the next gear you want, and then have a crystal ball to select the one you actually need. The slush box has far more rev flexibility because of the torque converter, so it's much less fussy and more ready to respond when you hit the gas.
This is not to say I don't like the Fabia's 7-speed DSG - it's a terrific piece of engineering, and in Sport mode it is very responsive and just belts through the gears. But put it in Drive, slow down for a Give Way (Yield) sign and then boot it at the wrong moment, and there will be that soggy half-second where sod-all happens. It then rockets away, and has never really put me in any danger - but it feels like it's going to, and that's what puts people off. I'm learning to trust it, slowly - but I still won't be trying to nip across any junctions just in front of an oncoming truck, not unless I've already come to a stop first and therefore know that the box is ready for action.
#225
Weeeelllll - not sure I agree 100%, having driven a few DCT-equipped cars. While Porsche's PDK might be particularly bad (I have no experience of it), it is not uncommon to catch a DCT box just at the wrong time. This is usually when it's in the middle of a downshift sequence and you suddenly want to be off again and hit the gas. The box knows that the current active gear is too high for the revs, but it hasn't got the right gear lined up - rather than risking a stall or pinking, it tells the ECU to keep the throttle closed until the correct gear is meshed. This gives you an 'ono' second of absolutely nothing happening, then you're off. I've experienced this in our Fabia vRS and a Polo GTi, and even in a GT-R. It tends to be particularly bad when you're in Drive mode, where the TCU is (usually) optimised for smoothness & economy, so it tends to hold the car in higher gears.
Basically, pre-selection boxes would have to be psychic to always select the next gear you want, and then have a crystal ball to select the one you actually need. The slush box has far more rev flexibility because of the torque converter, so it's much less fussy and more ready to respond when you hit the gas.
This is not to say I don't like the Fabia's 7-speed DSG - it's a terrific piece of engineering, and in Sport mode it is very responsive and just belts through the gears. But put it in Drive, slow down for a Give Way (Yield) sign and then boot it at the wrong moment, and there will be that soggy half-second where sod-all happens. It then rockets away, and has never really put me in any danger - but it feels like it's going to, and that's what puts people off. I'm learning to trust it, slowly - but I still won't be trying to nip across any junctions just in front of an oncoming truck, not unless I've already come to a stop first and therefore know that the box is ready for action.
Basically, pre-selection boxes would have to be psychic to always select the next gear you want, and then have a crystal ball to select the one you actually need. The slush box has far more rev flexibility because of the torque converter, so it's much less fussy and more ready to respond when you hit the gas.
This is not to say I don't like the Fabia's 7-speed DSG - it's a terrific piece of engineering, and in Sport mode it is very responsive and just belts through the gears. But put it in Drive, slow down for a Give Way (Yield) sign and then boot it at the wrong moment, and there will be that soggy half-second where sod-all happens. It then rockets away, and has never really put me in any danger - but it feels like it's going to, and that's what puts people off. I'm learning to trust it, slowly - but I still won't be trying to nip across any junctions just in front of an oncoming truck, not unless I've already come to a stop first and therefore know that the box is ready for action.
#226
Discovery Science Channel will televise the series "How It's Made" on the Jaguar F-Type. It will air on August 29th, 2013. It will be a 30 minute show, and highly detailed.
It should be both fun and interesting to watch.
Check your TV schedule or Guide for times........it will repeat that night.
It should be both fun and interesting to watch.
Check your TV schedule or Guide for times........it will repeat that night.
Last edited by richzak; 08-24-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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axr6 (08-24-2013)
#227
Discovery Science Channel will televise the series "How It's Made" on the Jaguar F-Type. It will air on August 29th, 2013. It will be a 30 minute show, and highly detailed.
It should be both fun and interesting to watch.
Check your TV schedule or Guide for times........it will repeat that night.
It should be both fun and interesting to watch.
Check your TV schedule or Guide for times........it will repeat that night.
Albert
#228
#229
Hate to say it, but the pork may be the result of an underfunded engineering development program. Far more customers do not care about weight than those who do. And many like a heavier car for safety reasons for fear of being entangled with a damn SUV, pickup...etc. which are more than 50% of the vehicles on the road.
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amcdonal86 (08-24-2013)
#231
Albert
#232
I just miss rowing my own gears! I drove a friend's 1998 Honda Civic with 200k miles and a 5-speed miles last week during lunch and it was almost as fun as my XKR, if only for a moment. It's unfortunate that the only cars you can get a stick with anymore are base model economy cars and non-premium sports cars like the 370Z, Miata and BRZ. Oh, and the 911.
#233
This is in no way a knock on the use of the auto 8, but I can't help but wonder if the extra torque it provides with more flexible gearing is contributing to the V8S's grip issues in track testing. M.T. (and I think maybe another) describes cornering as initially under-steering and then over-steering as throttle is fed in. That doesn't happen with the XKR with the same engine and more weight. Can't imagine Jaguar suspension engineers would have toe and camber changes causing this. Limiting torque would help reduce the over-steer, as would lighter use of the throttle, but Mike Cross and others have suggested that the less powerful V6S might be the best drivers version.
Bruce
Bruce
#234
I imagine it's something like my 6-speed transmission, which is also buttery smooth!
I just miss rowing my own gears! I drove a friend's 1998 Honda Civic with 200k miles and a 5-speed miles last week during lunch and it was almost as fun as my XKR, if only for a moment. It's unfortunate that the only cars you can get a stick with anymore are base model economy cars and non-premium sports cars like the 370Z, Miata and BRZ. Oh, and the 911.
I just miss rowing my own gears! I drove a friend's 1998 Honda Civic with 200k miles and a 5-speed miles last week during lunch and it was almost as fun as my XKR, if only for a moment. It's unfortunate that the only cars you can get a stick with anymore are base model economy cars and non-premium sports cars like the 370Z, Miata and BRZ. Oh, and the 911.
Albert
#235
Those rev-matching (and hill-holder) manual transmissions boggle me. What's the point of having a stick if you're going to have the car help you do what you should be able to do well yourself?
Then again, most people I know who drive manuals (and have been driving them for years if not decades) cannot heel-toe revmatch downshifts or don't even understand why you would do that. None of them know how to double clutch either.
Then again, most people I know who drive manuals (and have been driving them for years if not decades) cannot heel-toe revmatch downshifts or don't even understand why you would do that. None of them know how to double clutch either.
Last edited by amcdonal86; 08-26-2013 at 08:37 PM.
#236
Realistically, an "R" is about 2 seconds between the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. The engine is silky smooth, don't run out of power, and you have not way of ascertaining 5,000 vs 7,000 rpm other than looking at the tach. If you want a stick and want to run it hard you'll need to focus all of your attention on the tach to control the shift points....and even then it is difficult. In the past sticks were faster, but not with today's huge power and more gears. Nobody can argue against the fun and involvement of driving a stick, but with today's ultra performance cars shifting has become exponentially more difficult. If you want a stick, get it but know that the fellow in the equivalent A/T car will probably out do you. Yet, you will probably be having more fun rowing your own. Is is a great time to be buying cars or what?
#238
The flip side is: I left-foot brake when driving an auto or DSG box, so I can get onto the brake faster, and off it and onto the power faster than someone who has to shift their foot from one pedal to the other. You have to be careful not to brake and accelerate at the same time, since that gives the TCU a headache, but if you time it right it works well.