TPS replacement
#22
Just taken some measurements of the Denso 198500-3300 TPS, as used on the X400 2.5 & 3.0, X202 2.5, 3.0, 4.2 & S/C, and the the X350 3.0, 3.5, 4.2 & S/C
Pins 1-4 = 2.272KΩ
Pins 1-2 Closed = 1.448KΩ
Pins 1-2 WOT = 2.376KΩ
Pins 1-3 Closed = 0.736KΩ
Pins 1-3 WOT = 2.169KΩ
Compared to Steve's measurements on the Denso 198500-3250;
Pins 1-4 = 2.24KΩ (very close)
Pins 1-2 Closed = 1.03KΩ (close but a bit out)
Pins 1-2 WOT = 2.4KΩ (very close)
Pins 1-3 Closed = 0.12KΩ (quite a way off, but also offset as 1-2)
Pins 1-3 WOT = 2.4KΩ (reasonable close)
Bear in mind the following;
1. My multimeter is a cheap one
2.I have made the measurements with the TPS still attached to the TB, so the closed position is not 0°, more like 7.5°, and if you turn the butterfly to the stop it goes well past 90°, so the WOT was positioned by eye.
If an XK or X308 owner wants to try fitting this TPS to their car let me know and I will send it to you (so long as I get it back or cash/goodwill in return).
Pins 1-4 = 2.272KΩ
Pins 1-2 Closed = 1.448KΩ
Pins 1-2 WOT = 2.376KΩ
Pins 1-3 Closed = 0.736KΩ
Pins 1-3 WOT = 2.169KΩ
Compared to Steve's measurements on the Denso 198500-3250;
Pins 1-4 = 2.24KΩ (very close)
Pins 1-2 Closed = 1.03KΩ (close but a bit out)
Pins 1-2 WOT = 2.4KΩ (very close)
Pins 1-3 Closed = 0.12KΩ (quite a way off, but also offset as 1-2)
Pins 1-3 WOT = 2.4KΩ (reasonable close)
Bear in mind the following;
1. My multimeter is a cheap one
2.I have made the measurements with the TPS still attached to the TB, so the closed position is not 0°, more like 7.5°, and if you turn the butterfly to the stop it goes well past 90°, so the WOT was positioned by eye.
If an XK or X308 owner wants to try fitting this TPS to their car let me know and I will send it to you (so long as I get it back or cash/goodwill in return).
#23
Hmm... The text on p4 sounds of the kind of thing an engineer might write for field service in explaining why there are two sensors with different output slopes while trying to avoid explaining differential signals.
For a test, I wasn't meaning anything so elegant. I only meant spoofing the voltage input to see if the interpreted response by the ECU was sensible. A bench test of sorts.
Purpose being to confirm the assumptions about what signal (or combination of signals) represents a throttle position.
The magic smoke leaked out of my AE dongle while testing a beta software for them so I wont be able to much beyond witty commentary for a few days but this is an interesting mystery.
For a test, I wasn't meaning anything so elegant. I only meant spoofing the voltage input to see if the interpreted response by the ECU was sensible. A bench test of sorts.
Purpose being to confirm the assumptions about what signal (or combination of signals) represents a throttle position.
The magic smoke leaked out of my AE dongle while testing a beta software for them so I wont be able to much beyond witty commentary for a few days but this is an interesting mystery.
#24
I saw this, thought it might be of interest, don't know if you guys have seen it already...
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-3300-a-82398/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-3300-a-82398/
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steveinfrance (10-13-2012)
#26
Looking at it from a different angle, what is the unit used on the Lincoln LS 3.9L engine?
As it's a Ford part, there may be a common sensor available via Ford's parts?
Anyone got access to an LS TB?
Looking through the Tomco-inc TPS parts list, the Lincoln LS 3.9 TPS info is as follows,
*(2003-2000 3.9L (A) 242") OE#F4SF-9B989AA type=PFI part #=14039 - can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
The above info would be useful to early S Type and AJ27 engine owners?
Page 340
http://www.tomco-inc.com/Catalog/tps%20sensors.pdf
*See page 357 for their version of the Denso 198500-0330 is #14135 can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
Also, the Range Rover 4.2 lump is the same engine, I just wonder if the TPS could be bought and used?
I'm going to call Brock LR on monday....if they can supply a TPS for a RR Sport SC at right money, I'll buy and bolt it on for a test, although this option would benefit 4.2 owners I guess (Denso 3300) It might be better to test on an XK/XKR X350/358 and later S Types...personally feel the denso 3250 and 3300 are close enough to swap, just hope it works...
As it's a Ford part, there may be a common sensor available via Ford's parts?
Anyone got access to an LS TB?
Looking through the Tomco-inc TPS parts list, the Lincoln LS 3.9 TPS info is as follows,
*(2003-2000 3.9L (A) 242") OE#F4SF-9B989AA type=PFI part #=14039 - can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
The above info would be useful to early S Type and AJ27 engine owners?
Page 340
http://www.tomco-inc.com/Catalog/tps%20sensors.pdf
*See page 357 for their version of the Denso 198500-0330 is #14135 can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
Also, the Range Rover 4.2 lump is the same engine, I just wonder if the TPS could be bought and used?
I'm going to call Brock LR on monday....if they can supply a TPS for a RR Sport SC at right money, I'll buy and bolt it on for a test, although this option would benefit 4.2 owners I guess (Denso 3300) It might be better to test on an XK/XKR X350/358 and later S Types...personally feel the denso 3250 and 3300 are close enough to swap, just hope it works...
Last edited by Sean B; 10-13-2012 at 08:58 AM.
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Country boy (10-29-2012)
#27
From pictures from eBay listings in the states, it appears that the 3.9L LS V8 has a completely different TB to the Jaguars. No luck...
I'd already seen the tomco catalog, it's another dead end.
The Range Rover might be the same since they are in essence the same engines. But i would be surprised if they actually sell the TPS separately...try it, see how you go.
I'd already seen the tomco catalog, it's another dead end.
The Range Rover might be the same since they are in essence the same engines. But i would be surprised if they actually sell the TPS separately...try it, see how you go.
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Country boy (10-29-2012)
#28
Also, the Range Rover 4.2 lump is the same engine, I just wonder if the TPS could be bought and used?
I'm going to call Brock LR on monday....if they can supply a TPS for a RR Sport SC at right money, I'll buy and bolt it on for a test, although this option would benefit 4.2 owners I guess (Denso 3300) It might be better to test on an XK/XKR X350/358 and later S Types...personally feel the denso 3250 and 3300 are close enough to swap, just hope it works...
I'm going to call Brock LR on monday....if they can supply a TPS for a RR Sport SC at right money, I'll buy and bolt it on for a test, although this option would benefit 4.2 owners I guess (Denso 3300) It might be better to test on an XK/XKR X350/358 and later S Types...personally feel the denso 3250 and 3300 are close enough to swap, just hope it works...
#29
This is the programmable contactless TPS - the two outputs are factory programmable to map any twin pot TPS
Penny + Giles | Throttle Position Sensors for OEM's, teams and enthusiasts
The only thing I can't find is exact price - somewhere around £120
Penny + Giles | Throttle Position Sensors for OEM's, teams and enthusiasts
The only thing I can't find is exact price - somewhere around £120
#30
This is the programmable contactless TPS - the two outputs are factory programmable to map any twin pot TPS
Penny + Giles | Throttle Position Sensors for OEM's, teams and enthusiasts
The only thing I can't find is exact price - somewhere around £120
Penny + Giles | Throttle Position Sensors for OEM's, teams and enthusiasts
The only thing I can't find is exact price - somewhere around £120
That's a very interesting alternative. Given that it is digital, it could even be mapped with a curve that tells little white lies to the ECU and throttle motor.
120 GBP isn't unreasonable if the alternative is a new throttle body. But a $50 knockoff would be good too
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Country boy (10-29-2012)
#33
Tomco says they have no cross on the number.
On the subject of the stock pots, the only critical part is the deposited film resistance tracks.
Some things to consider:
-- manufacturers hate to make new tooling when old tooling will do the job.
-- rebuilders can somehow rebuild these things
-- the only thing needed is the potentiometer disc and the pins
-- many tps have the same pin/layout/connector
Could it be that the rebuilders have access to a catalog of generic discs?
Could it be that the rebuilders have figured out which cheap tps they can use as a donor for the disc?
The only thing that is needed to make this work is that the disc have the same electrical characteristics and fit into the old tps carrier.
The way to identify likely suspects is to look at the static tps resistance tests in the matching factory repair manuals of each likely suspect. Toyota would be a good start as they use both Denso TPS and Denso ECM of various generation on almost all of their vehicles.
Or if someone, like an experienced procurement specialist had access to the right catalogs then it becomes much easier
On the subject of the stock pots, the only critical part is the deposited film resistance tracks.
Some things to consider:
-- manufacturers hate to make new tooling when old tooling will do the job.
-- rebuilders can somehow rebuild these things
-- the only thing needed is the potentiometer disc and the pins
-- many tps have the same pin/layout/connector
Could it be that the rebuilders have access to a catalog of generic discs?
Could it be that the rebuilders have figured out which cheap tps they can use as a donor for the disc?
The only thing that is needed to make this work is that the disc have the same electrical characteristics and fit into the old tps carrier.
The way to identify likely suspects is to look at the static tps resistance tests in the matching factory repair manuals of each likely suspect. Toyota would be a good start as they use both Denso TPS and Denso ECM of various generation on almost all of their vehicles.
Or if someone, like an experienced procurement specialist had access to the right catalogs then it becomes much easier
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batroute (10-17-2012)
#37
I'm a newbie to the forum, please excuse any protocol breach. On the TPS replacement I wonder if a unit from a 2004 Lincoln LS V8 might work. 4 conductor, picture looks the same, Rock Auto site, Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 3L5Z9B989AA, 5S9676, 6L2Z9B989A, 6L2Z9B989B, 6L2Z9B989C, 6L2Z9B989D, 6L3Z9B989A, TPS4212, TPS4224.
More Information for AIRTEX / WELLS 5S7264
More Information for AIRTEX / WELLS 5S7264
#38
Looking at it from a different angle, what is the unit used on the Lincoln LS 3.9L engine?
As it's a Ford part, there may be a common sensor available via Ford's parts?
Anyone got access to an LS TB?
Looking through the Tomco-inc TPS parts list, the Lincoln LS 3.9 TPS info is as follows,
*(2003-2000 3.9L (A) 242") OE#F4SF-9B989AA type=PFI part #=14039 - can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
The above info would be useful to early S Type and AJ27 engine owners?
Page 340
http://www.tomco-inc.com/Catalog/tps%20sensors.pdf
*See page 357 for their version of the Denso 198500-0330 is #14135 can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
Also, the Range Rover 4.2 lump is the same engine, I just wonder if the TPS could be bought and used?
I'm going to call Brock LR on monday....if they can supply a TPS for a RR Sport SC at right money, I'll buy and bolt it on for a test, although this option would benefit 4.2 owners I guess (Denso 3300) It might be better to test on an XK/XKR X350/358 and later S Types...personally feel the denso 3250 and 3300 are close enough to swap, just hope it works...
As it's a Ford part, there may be a common sensor available via Ford's parts?
Anyone got access to an LS TB?
Looking through the Tomco-inc TPS parts list, the Lincoln LS 3.9 TPS info is as follows,
*(2003-2000 3.9L (A) 242") OE#F4SF-9B989AA type=PFI part #=14039 - can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
The above info would be useful to early S Type and AJ27 engine owners?
Page 340
http://www.tomco-inc.com/Catalog/tps%20sensors.pdf
*See page 357 for their version of the Denso 198500-0330 is #14135 can someone in the USA call them about a price?*
Also, the Range Rover 4.2 lump is the same engine, I just wonder if the TPS could be bought and used?
I'm going to call Brock LR on monday....if they can supply a TPS for a RR Sport SC at right money, I'll buy and bolt it on for a test, although this option would benefit 4.2 owners I guess (Denso 3300) It might be better to test on an XK/XKR X350/358 and later S Types...personally feel the denso 3250 and 3300 are close enough to swap, just hope it works...
#39