So I went out to check the results and I'm back, its about 11:40 pm .

After trying the same process but this time by firstly disconnecting the neg terminal to initiate the reset, then releasing the valve, and then manually unlatching, and manually retracting the top with the rams still unlocked from the first attempt, then closing the valve...

after over an hour of waiting I reconnect the terminal, start the car, wait a bit for it to adjust itself, then I try the button-roof up and nothing, no response at all, it doesn't trigger the pump or cause any sound or movement, simply nothing.

I even tried swapping the roof up and roof down relays in the trunk to make sure it wasn't due to a bad relay possibly causing the Button-roof up to no longer be working.

I think that the button-roof up no longer working and no longer activating the pump to fill the rams up and upwards may be why the rams are not locking even after I manually raise the roof completely and latch it down, I also tried to tug on the roof all I could to get the rams to lock but they don't, and that may also be why the back windows no longer rise to close either.

Another thing I tried and noticed is when I manually raise the roof all the way, then close the valve and try the only way the Button works now, to push the Button-roof down and hold it, eventually the roof goes downward and latches down, but yet even though it is latched downwards, the screen gives the message the roof is not latched, so I tried and noticed I can still push the roof upwards with my hand, so though the latch grabbed it and pulled it down, it didn't do so enough to lock it, it only hooked it and pulled it down, but that's probably because it was latched by pushing button-roof down instead of up, the normal way, and probably not the same strength and not strong enough to latch it locked and not enough to lock up the rams either.

I have to think we've gotten past worse and these are the lumps that come with owning older and somewhat more complicated/sophisticated designed cars, so hopefully tomorrow will bring new ideas and solutions.


Thanks a lot,
Sid

 

Today I will check/test the fuses in the trunk, then report back and post the result.

 

OK! Is the pump working at all?

First check all the fuses in the trunk and pay attention to fuse 1 or 2. From what you had indicated the pump had been running when the roof was up.

With the top open I want you to push down on both sides of the roof frame to be sure it is fully open and that the ram switch is reading it open and be sure the latch is fully closed then close the petcock on the pump.

The signal to the pump is from the security and body control module and the proper position of the switches. The face that the pump works in either open or close position of the roof tells me that the pump is functioning properly and I question the switches and or the security module signal to the relays.

In the beginning you said the pump was running and that the latch opened then when it was time to pull the roof open you had nothing but was the pump running when it came time to pull the roof back? In the roof open sequence the pump is running the solenoid on the pump for the latch open is activated when the switches in the roof are satisfied it is open then that solenoid is closed and the solenoid for the rams are activated the pump should be still running. If it is not running then one of the switches or one of the modules is not working properly. When the roof close sequence is activated it is the same operation with the exception of the pump it will run in reverse (the system is a push/push) and the solenoids will operate the roof first then the latch last. My guess would be a fuse, security module is confused or the ram switches.

Link to Roof operation http://jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepa...s/501-11AM.pdf

 

Hi Gus, please see above are my answers to your questions ( did a few edits since posting and email was sent to you by system).

Thanks a lot, much appreciated
Sid

 

okay so today, among the other things I did as I mention in the above posts, I noticed that the top was manually retractable even though the valve was closed at the pump, that really bothered me so I decided to try something, I also tried to lower the top manually and then I electrically, by using the Button Top DOWN, locked the rams down and locked the latch (had to fully lock it ending with the hex key), then I disconnected the neg terminal to try a reset.

So the thought was that technically the latch is locked and the top is down with the rams locked and it's all at the beginning of the cycle as required to perform a reset, and that since I was doing a reset/disconnecting the neg terminal, nothing about the computers or otherwise would recall and take into account how the status of the top etc got that way, whether manually or not, the requirements of the latch locked sensors and rams locked in the down position are met.

So I went back after over an hour and reconnected the neg terminal and reset the front windows while everything else was adjusting, but then when I tried the Button ROOF UP, still nothing happening from anywhere.

So is it because of the procedure or is something wrong with the button or some thing else???

Okay so I figured that the only way to truly know if the Button Roof Up was really inoperable due to anything that went bad during the procedure I followed to attempt the reset, was to put things back to the way they were prior to the whole procedure attempt I did from the beginning. I opened the valve and manually raised the top and locked it with the hex key, then i went and got a wooden tennis racket and gently forced the rams up til they each clicked, pretty sure I heard a click, anyway so then I went back to the rocker button and pressed Button TOP UP and this time it worked again, the back windows raised and all was back to how it was...

with the rams locked in the top up position when I push BUTTON TOP DOWN the windows open, latch unlocks and top raises but doesn't retract, then I push BUTTON TOP UP and roof goes to latch and locks up normally.

So the bottom line seems to be that the reason top reset isn't working is because it is not completing itself due to the BUTTON TOP UP not functioning to begin the cycle from after the computer reset - to raising the roof - to lowering again - and raising it again.

So we now know for certain that nothings wrong with the button or fuses etc and answering why BUTTON TOP DOWN doesn't retract the top even though it unlatches and raises, and/or why the BUTTON TOP UP isn't working from after a computer reset with the top down and latch locked are the key to getting the top fully functional again.

So bottom line is after everything, at least my windows are back up, I know I didn't mess anything up, and I'm back to where I started, but I learned things I didn't know and hopefully we picked up some good info along the way that would help solve the issue(s).

Thanks again,
Sid

 

So the main facts are that;

- from a top up closed/latched position

1. BUTTON TOP DOWN lowers windows, unlatches and raises roof, but doesn't retract/rams not lowering roof

2. BUTTON TOP UP brings top to latch locks it and raises windows

- from the top down position and after a computer reset

3. BUTTON TOP UP doesn't work

4. BUTTON TOP DOWN trigger pump and after a while of holding the button pressed, the latch opens and closes even though the top is down.


Thanks

 

So your top works as designed when opened but will not close the roof from the open position. I would be looking at the bottom switch in the right ram. That switch is not telling the computer that the roof is open and is ok to close.

 

Not quite,

It almost works as designed when closed, BUTTON TOP DOWN doesn't open it all the way down, it just unlocks it and raises the roof a few inches.
+
When opened all the way down manually, BUTTON TOP UP to close it doesn't work at all

 

So based on what you're saying,

maybe on BUTTON TOP DOWN a switch isn't telling the rams to lower the roof even though the pump is working
+
on BUTTON TOP UP, a switch isn't acknowledging the top is down and is not allowing the button to trigger the pump on to raise the roof

 

pump works when roof is up but rams don't lower the roof.

pump doesn't work when roof is down, nothing works, only the BUTTON ROOF DOWN even though the roof is already down

 

Please check this again...

- from a top up closed/latched position

1. BUTTON TOP DOWN (pump works) lowers windows, unlatches, raises roof only inches, pump is still working but roof doesn't retract/rams not lowering roof to back of car

2. BUTTON TOP UP (pump works) brings top to latch, locks it and raises windows - all normal



- from the manual top down position and after a computer reset

3. BUTTON TOP UP ( pump doesn't work)(Button Top Up doesn't work), BUTTON TOP UP doesn't do anything, nothing going on

4. BUTTON TOP DOWN (pump works) (Button Top down works)- triggers pump and after a while of holding the button pressed, the latch opens and closes even though the top is already down.



Thanks

 

Now I am confused!!! Brain is full!!! You need to call me tomorrow.

 

So sorry Gus, my head was spinning too.

Let me try to simplify;

When the top is up,
button works in up and down directions with pump working except the rams are not pulling down the roof open all the way down, the roof only opens a few inches upwards from the latch.

When the top is already down (from me lowering it manually);
the button roof up doesn't work , it does nothing, only Button roof down works to lower an already lowered roof.

hope this helps, and thanks a lot Gus,
Sid

 

I was wondering if its possible that the system is confused when it comes to the top not lowering all the way from the top up position...

and that I can't complete the reset procedure when the top is manually lowered, because pushing the Button top up is not working, and that button function possibly not working because the right ram lower switch is maybe not working, as you suggested Gus.

So if you think that can be true, then where is the lower switch, how do i get to it and how can i test it?

Thank you
Sid

 

So what I'm saying is maybe I can't solve the top up not lowering problem without first fixing the possible second problem possibly being the lower ram switch.

Is that possible?

Thanks again,
Sid

 

Proper operation to open in short
Quarter windows open and front windows drop
Chime sound
Latch opens
The top retracts
The latch parks

CONVERTIBLE TOP OPENING SEQUENCE Note: When operating the convertible top, the engine should be running to maintain maximum battery voltage. The following is a step-by-step description of the convertible top opening sequence. It can be used for fault finding to determine at what stage the convertible top opening sequence was interrupted, therefore giving an indication of which component is malfunctioning. The table at the end of the description shows the varying conditions (on = closed, off = open) of the switches, solenoids and relays as the convertible top goes through the opening cycle. The numbers in the top row of the table refer to the following description steps.
1. When the convertible top opening sequence begins the relays and solenoids will be in the off position, ‘Convertible top down switch’ will be the only switch in the ‘open circuit’ condition.
2. Pressing the convertible top switch will signal the Body Processor Module (BPM) to send a ‘Open Convertible top’ signal to the Security and Locking Module (SLCM). The SLCM will open both rear quarter windows, and sound the chime alarm to warn that the convertible top is about to open. (Note: the rear quarter windows will be powered for a maximum of 3 seconds).
3. If the front windows are closed they will be opened slightly. The SLCM will switch on relay ‘Top up relay’ and the ‘latch control valve’, the latch claw will start to raise.
4. As the latch raises ‘Convertible latch closed switch’ followed by the ‘convertible top closed switch’ will switch to ‘open circuit’.
5. When ‘Convertible top closed switch’ switches to ‘open circuit’ the SLCM will switch off relay ‘Top up relay’ and switch on relay ‘Top down relay’. This will change the hydraulic pump from push to pull mode to start the opening of the convertible top. When the convertible top leaves the latch claw ‘Convertible top ready-to-latch switch’ and ‘Convertible top raised switch’ will be switched to ‘open circuit’.
6. When the convertible top has fully opened ‘Convertible top down switch’ will switch to ‘closed circuit’. The SLCM will sound the chime alarm, raise any windows which it had lowered except the rear quarter windows, and switch off the ‘latch control valve’ causing the latch mechanism to close. 7. When ‘Convertible top latch closed switch’ is switched to ‘closed circuit’ in response to the latch closing, the SLCM will switch off the hydraulic pump.

Proper operation to close in short
Chime sound
Drop front windows
Latch opens
Top will go up
Latch grabs roof and closes
Chime sounds
Quarter windows up

CONVERTIBLE TOP CLOSING SEQUENCE Note: When operating the convertible top, the engine should be running to maintain maximum battery voltage. The following is a step-by-step description of the convertible top closing sequence. It can be used for fault finding to determine at what stage the convertible top closing sequence was interrupted, therefore giving an indication of which component is malfunctioning. The table at the end of the description shows the varying conditions (on = closed, off = open) of the switches, solenoids and relays as the convertible top goes through the closing cycle. The numbers in the top row of the table refer to the following description steps.
1. When the convertible top closing sequence begins the solenoids and relays will all be switched ‘off’. The ‘Convertible top latch closed switch’ and ‘Convertible top down switch’ will be the only switches that are ‘closed circuit’.
2. Pressing the convertible top switch will signal the Body Processor Module (BPM) to send a ‘Close Convertible top’ signal to the Security and Locking Control Module (SLCM). The SLCM will sound the chime alarm to warn that the convertible top is about to close.
3. If the front windows are closed they will be opened slightly. The SLCM will turn on the ‘top up relay’ and the ‘latch control valve’, the latch claw will start to raise.
4. As the latch claw raises ‘Convertible top latch closed switch’ will go ‘open circuit’.
5. When ‘Convertible top latch closed switch’ goes ‘open circuit’ the SLCM switches on solenoid ‘main control valve’; the convertible top will start to raise.
6. When the convertible top has fully raised it will touch the latch claw which will switch ‘Convertible top ready-to-latch switch’ to ‘closed circuit’, and the end of the convertible top cylinder travel will switch ‘Convertible top raised switch’ to closed circuit enabling a signal to be sent. The SLCM switches off the ‘Latch Control Valve’; and the claw pulls the convertible top in to the latch position allowing the locking pins to engage, securing the convertible top in place.
7. When the latch has closed ‘Convertible top closed switch’ and ‘Convertible top latch closed switch’ will be switched to ‘closed circuit’, the SLCM will turn off the hydraulic pump, sound the alarm chime, and raise the front windows.
8. Further pressure on the convertible top switch will raise the rear quarter windows.

In order for me to understand the problem I need a in short on what is taking place in both open & close operations.

 

- from a top up closed and latched position
I push BUTTON TOP DOWN back windows lower, roof unlatches, pump runs and roof raises only inches,then rams NOT lowering roof to back of car while PUMP is still running



- from the manual top down position

I push the BUTTON TOP UP to raise the roof ( pump doesn't work) nothing going on at all


Thanks

 

Top closed and latched position

The rams not lowering the roof with the pump running tells me that the solenoid is not activated or not working to open the roof.

Top Open and latch parked

The pump not running could be the button or the body control or security module not telling the pump what to do.

I would first check the switch to see if it is working properly for the closing command and see if this is an issue. I believe you have two issues but would like to verify the switch first.

 

Hi Gus, my answers to the suggestions you proposed are above .

Thanks a lot,
Sid

 

Top Open and latch parked

Gus: The pump not running could be the button or the body control or security module not telling the pump what to do.

Sid: in the top up position the button works perfectly fine in both directions, it closes the roof and latches it locked.

Sid: due to bcm or security still being confused and/or the ram switch?