Jared,

Well, Not a word from Mr. Wright over the week-end nor Today. Guess I will give him another call Tomorrow with hopes of some results....

I'll check in tomorrow night...

Billy Clyde in Houston

 

Jared,

I called Mr. Wright again and left a message.....Since Friday, the 2nd Number that I gave you has been cancelled, so I'll wait to hear from him from the 1st number......We'll see if he will call me...

Hope you are getting on with the repairs as I am looking forward to you sending some photos of it on the road......

Still waiting for a phone call......

Billy Clyde

 

I have followed your post for a couple of days and wish you well on your endeavor. Something I noted is you are ordering and replacing a lot of modules. First, that is a really bad idea. The modules are connected to the CAN/BUS and need to talk to each other. When you introduce a new module you have to program it to communicate. By introducing a bunch of new modules you exponentially increase the factor for failure.
I recommend you open and clean and dry the existing modules. If you must replace one read the VCATS list in the spare tire wheel well and go with only that version number. It will simplify things. Where VCATS doesn't list a number make sure the module you are replacing has the same last alphabetical letter or higher. E.G version G can replace version F but can't replace version H ,
The module under the fuse box is the Security Control Locking Module(SCLM)
if you replace it your are starting programming from scratch.

 

I understand (to some degree, more learning to do on the programming side) the inner-connection between the modules. I know the transmission module was beyond repair. The SCLM (pic above) certainly has the possibility of being beyond repair as well. The Suspension was giving a "incorrect part fitted" on the dash and that module was removed/cleaned and I do have a replacement coming. (and yes, that one is programmable as well) I appreciate your input and knowledge that I might be creating faults by the replacements. Right now, I have a beautiful floor display that I want to bring back to life. I'm unsure how best to go about that if I have modules that are not functioning properly, nor have I found a way to test them. (and I don't have a dealer nearby). Your point is well taken though. Since I have tried to restore the SCLM and the suspension mod (contact cleaner, soft brush). This weekend we will attempt ignition with the originals and see what we have. I'll keep you posted!

 

The larger point is that this car is loaded with control modules organized around 3 data bus technologies (CAN, SCP and ISO9141). By now, you already know the electrical system on this car is going to require extensive repair, so you must look into acquiring the proper diagnostic software. Without it, you are flying blind and throwing parts at these problems. This approach is very likely to fail for a variety of reasons. You really need to switch strategy and build a known-good foundation of key modules (ECU, Instrument Cluster, etc.) so the diagnostic software can get started, and then built-out from there, based on what the software tells you.

At this point, it is unlikely anything short of the factory/dealer-level software is going to cut it. There is probably a long discussion to be had about this, but you can start with the offering from British Diagnostics, and go from there.

Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

Once you remove and replace the SCLM (security control locking module) you are not going to be able to use any of the keys you have. They will no longer be associated with the SCLM and will cease functioning. The RFI chip in the key is programmed into the module. The new module will not recognize the key and can put the vehicle into anti theft mode.
Probably your best course of action is to stay with all of the existing modules and try to work through the ones that are non functioning. They may look crusty and rusty but they really are pretty robust.

 

fmertz.

With as much as I don't know, (which you all know to be substantial when it comes to Jaguar's) I can not express my gratitude properly to you, and the forum members who are so willing to help. the British Diagnostics software/cable is ordered. And you are likely correct. (and something I had considered) in that at some point, i'm going to have to take this to a dealer. My hope. (optimist at heart after all) is that I would have a mostly functional car before that point. I'm only two weeks into this journey, with a lot to learn. I am enjoying the process. It will be very very interesting to see what the software tells me.

 

Curiosity question. I will be near a jag dealer in early March (and again in late march for that matter). Can a dealer could program my replacement module (if needed) to my existing keys without the car being present? or do they need the entire vehicle?

 

With that software, you are basically on a par with a tech at a dealer. At this point, it is not even sure your average dealership still has a tech capable of operating this older software, so you will quickly become more of an expert yourself.

This software can definitely add keys if need be. I have done all the research about keys, we can talk when you get to it.

Check the electrical manual (Fig 19 from memory) for the schematic of the data networks (you might even want to print it and put it in your shop). The layout of the CAN, SCP and ISO networks is shown, as well as it's mapping to the diagnostics connector. You will need to use this as a map to try and make sense of how the data flows, and how things connect. This schematic is actually fairly simple by design as the idea is to minimize the amount of wiring, and let these computer exchange data messages over those data networks. Also, keep an handy reference to all the acronyms for each of the modules. The diagnostic software makes heavy references to them.

Read this: jlr-sdd-instruction-manual

 

JTIS will also give you an insight into how much dialogue is occurring between the various modules:- the messages are listed in matrix form at the end of the document. One can only wonder the purpose of the 'CAN extra bong' message that the Adaptive Speed Control Control Module sends to the Instrument Pack

I'm afraid you are between a rock and a hard place with some of this. I'd concur that the SLCM is likely toast, and even if it does come to life, its longer-term prospects aren't good.

Where you have no option but to replace, most important (as avern1 states) is to match the numbers on the VCATS label, including the 3-digit suffix, as I'm not sure if the BD kit can flash code revisions. Hopefully it's survived getting wet. Apologies if this is glaringly obvious, but I've attached a pic. of mine.

How have the BPM and Key modules fared?

Best of luck,
Mike

 

Three goals for tonight.. Reassemble the Lock module/suspension/luggage fuse box, retrieve/inspect the Body module, and pull the radio. Finally a night where I accomplished all my tasks!.

After the lock/suspension/light mods were reinstalled I did a "key check" to make sure everything was as it appeared before. So plug the battery back in, turn the key and read the dash board. Bonnet open, boot open, suspension fault. hmmm no gear box fault. (there is a replacement transmission module in the car at this point..) perhaps something has gone right? I'll be very interested in the BD software when it arrives. (7 to 10 days). going to be fun to learn what my car thinks is wrong with it.

So, next the glove box. other than the seat being to far forward.. (still no seat movement on either side) that came out easily. Body module was removed and inspected.. and other than some light whiteness nearest the wiring harness it looks pretty good. (pics of course) I did my contact cleaner/soft brush to polish it back up and it's ready to go back into the car. An inspection behind the glove box does not show any water that would relate to what the interior of the glove box looked like. Air bag module, harness, rubber, hvac, metal tabs holding the shroud of the fan, etc.. all clean. I took the opportunity to remove the wiring harness that the previous owner had installed for his radar detector.

Center counsel wasn't to bad. as noted in some of the videos, the clips around the J-gate cause the most concern. but all in all, pretty straightforward. The radio was only displaying the backlight when the car arrived and by the state of the board it's pretty obviously fried. (pic included) a few of the resistors are actually flaking off. to me this is more of a sign of a power surge that blew the board then water. The area around the transmission j-gate, the walls of the carpet liner between the seats is also clean and no signs of debris/water/flooding. Also no signs of water damage behind the radio.

As much as I hate dismantling this beautiful car. I feel its necessary for me to learn the systems, and have an idea of what i'm in for once we get into real troubleshooting. You all have been a TREMENDOUS help and I hope you continue to help steer me in the best direction.

Now.. hmm time to debate original replacement? or aftermarket radio.. Thoughts? (and yes.. I'm sure someone will likely post a thread were the issue has been discussed before!)

Rick and I still plan to work on the starter and see if we can get any life signs in the engine on Sat. I'll keep you posted!

 

Did you order the "British Diagnostics" cable or the real one. I believe BD sells Mongoose clones. Programing with those are dicey. I'll defer to others but search will be your friend on that.

Best!

 

dsd.

I bought the BD V130 kit ISD and SSD which i'm guessing comes with their cable. And I agree it does seem to be a mongoose clone. As fmertz said, good place to start and right now, I need information. Is the Mongoose cable compatible with the BD software? (they are only $40 online)

 

Just try and work with what you ordered once you (eventually) get it. The cable is supposed to match specification J2534, which is meant to unify/simplify software updates to control modules through a standard cable. Speaking in general, with such a cable, you should be able to do "everything" that IDS/SDD is capable of. The only wrinkle I know of is that there have been conflicting report about the ability to perform actual software updates (as in replacing the entire code) for ECUs. OTOH, someone reported IDS/SDD successfully pushing an update to a transmission control module recently. As usual, things can change over time, and that cable could have been updated.

Keep in mind that one of the more important "flag" in IDS/SDD is the battery voltage. It is color-coded (red/yellow/green). I would not attempt anything committing unless the battery indicator showed "green".

Also, keep in mind IDS/SDD does LOTS of things besides updating software, like getting codes from ALL modules, graphing live data from ALL known sensors, add keys, change dealer options, deal with VCATS, etc.

 

I loaded up the 00-R (kinda a nice handle... double Aught R.. licence plate?) last night with most of the parts I was going to need for our 40 minute journey to Randy's garage and the lift we were going to need. Of course I forgot a few things, but nothing critical. (coil pack bolts are overrated right?)

We knew going into today that we had a frozen starter, some concerns with the trottle body, no idea if we had spark, or fuel pump, or water in the transmission. you know - the basic concerns.... everyday maintenance right?

We pulled - and by We, I'm giving full credit for the entire day to Rick, (and some to his brother Randy) who really know what he is doing. It makes the experience more enjoyable. Guys to bounce ideas off of, work through problems and drink a few brews!!!!

Anyway I digress. We pulled the X brace and the alternator snorkel tube to get better access to the starter. As you all likely know, not easy but it does come out without playing/moving with the steering system. Pulling it apart... well.. yea.. it sat in water.. likely for days. 3 of the 4 brushes were locked in, the bendix and plunger were frozen, the motor magnets were black, and the overall look had us a bit tempted to use it as a core exchange and buy a new one. But.. that's no fun!!!!! 90 minutes later, a few trials and errors and the Starter was cranking in the bench vice. I'd call it better than a pro rebuild as we sanded, cleaned, grinded, lubed, greased, and went through every part with a vengeance. Needless to say, we have a working starter. I'd love to say we just slapped it back on the car, but it took a bit more patience then that.

Throw a second battery behind the car.. put a charger on that, and jumper cables to the trunk.. should have solid consistent power.

Ok. feeling cocky now. engine turns freely (without plugs) Coil packs and plugs were tested.. all 8 good.. tossed the plugs in the engine, pushed on the coil packs.. throw the fuses back in for the fuel pumps and ... smoke... noise... some combustion.. and HARD STOP. like.. we couldn't turn the motor by hand hard stop.
Some.. (ok much) head shaking later, and pulled plugs and again had a free turning engine.. compression test time... Odd... back cylinders are running 250-300.. (and we MIGHT have blown the seals out of Randy's older compression tester... oppps)

Back cylinders are also spitting hard... hmmm don't like the butterfly valve anyway.. lets pull the throttle body... Ohhh.. would that intake full of standing water be part of the problem?

One shop vac, one fully rebuilt throttle body reinstalled, (motor was frozen, but came loose with BLASTER. - man.. that stuff worked GREAT on bearings today). 90 minutes of free (starter) turning later (in 15 second bursts)... we have 6 of 8 only throwing oil... Put 6 plugs in.. .. (exhaust manifold was lose, with a 1/4inch gap) and hmmm interesting.. we have some ignition. .but can't sustain it.. but boy is it helping push water out of the back 2. ... 30 minutes after that we are at 8 plugs again.

At some point we remembered to open the shop doors before we ended up a statistic... We have ignition on all 8.. but loud... up the lift goes... exhaust had thrown some significant crap out the gap.. so tighten that back up. Turn the key..
Ohh boy.,. getting close.. clean, smooth running for 1 -1.5 seconds.. then totally dead. rinse repeat... yep.. same thing 10 times over.. no matter what you do with the throttle. Fuel? or spark. Enter the starting fluid. .(yea yea. I know.. don't do that... to bad.. we did ). spark remains.. engine does and will run.. fuel issue to be resolved ... .tomorrow?

Transmission had some, not a lot, of water. Filter was changed and I will plan on doing another filter/pan drop after do run 200-300 miles. Rear Diff we will also crack tomorrow and see what it looks like.

We are close.. the girl has a heart beat... now to get it back to life!!!

Tomorrow's plan. change the oil again. (or at least loosen the plug and see what contamination we have.) Rear Diff. Work on fuel delivery. (filter change likely). Re-install the X brace, secure the coil packs/covers. Crossing my fingers for a stable idle.. if so.. lift the wheels off the ground, engage reverse and drive to let the gears spin...

Good day today.. great feeling hearing the cat want to Growl!! (short video attached)

 

I bought the BD V1.30 SDD/IDS software from them probably 4 years ago and have never had to use anything but their cable with it. In their paperwork back then they stated that they had their cables made specifically for them.

 

Jared,
Great progress! Congratulations.
I'll continue to follow your story with much interest.

 

Well done getting to this point!

Let me also add that any aspirations I've held to recover a flood car have been quelled!

 

Wow, where to begin today. Should I start at the end of the day? The highlight? The Low point? or Take you through my day from the beginning?

Oh Hell, I'll cut to the chase, 54 miles were driven in the Texas Flood car today!!!!!

Ok, now I'll back up, - the beginning.

Rick was gracious enough to spend another day in his Brothers Randy's garage today. Of course there is a BMW 330XI to finish a head gasket on, so I didn't want to tie up the shop for to long. (Randy never thought he'd see the day where a Jag and a Beemer were the two cars in his garage!) Anyway, early start, picked him up at 7:45, dropped the daughter off (babysitting gig today) Off to wallmart for some supplied. Namely Transmission fluid, rear diff lube, some more Blaster! (man, i'm a fan of that penetrating oil!) ended up with a few small funnels. (transmission fill is a pain as you all know) Rick picked up 1/4" deep well Stanley socket set and some labels, shop towels, and a pizza. (we do have to eat ya know, Jacks self rising if anyone is really curious).

We only had a few quarts of ATF yesterday, enough that we had some in the pan, not enough that we wanted to run the car for any length of time, in the event we got it to idle. Also brought down all the screws and plastics for the Coil packs, covers, Mass airflow, etc. Dropped in another 5.5 qt's of ATF, put the engine coil area back together, put some Gas in a spray bottle and made sure we still had ignition.. Check.. same 1 second or so run we had Sat.

Talking on the way down. We had three thought on the Fuel rail issue. We know the pump was running, (it never shut off). So.. bad sending unit and the tank is almost empty? Mostly plugged fuel filter? (we had one in hand) Computers shutting down? (didn't seem the most likely as the starting fluid would keep it running and we could hear the pump.

We were just about to tackle the fuel filter when Rick found the Gas pressure tester. Find the little blue cap, figure out a way to get it off, and the lead hose for the gauge on. (if you haven't every tried this.. yea.. it's as easy as it sounds.. ) And turn the pumps on. hmm 60 psi.. that doesn't sound right.... So we opt to turn the car over, see if pressure remains during the 1 second run, and what is the pressure after it stops. Turn the key.. 1 sec run...2 sec....3..4...5....6....7... crap.. we have a running engine!!!! Needless to say we had taken the dryer ducts off the exhaust and closed the garage door (it was -18 today) in anticipation of raising the car 6 feet off the ground.. Quick scramble to get the hoses back in place and out the bottom of the door. Fuel steady at 42.. engine left to run for almost a full minute.. dropped it's idle down to 700 rpm. .and sounded FREAKING AMAZING!!!!.

The shock took a while to wear off, And also put is in a "now what" state. We hadn't expected something as simple as a vapor lock in the line to kill fuel flow like that. Shut down the 00R (that really might have to be my vanity plate). and it took us twice as long to get the gauge OFF the valve than it did to put in on. Still in a bit of giddy school boy joy, we did an assessment and figured that letting the engine warm to operating temp, then changing the oil would likely be a valid option. (and park it outside while we do so). So.. with eager, and a bit nervous anticipation, we pulled in the lift arms, opened the door, and turned the key... Damn.. I love that sound. let it hit low Idle and slid it into Reverse. A super soft, very light 'tik' and the transmission engaged and I pulled my foot off the brake. For the first time during my ownership the car moved all of 30 feet under it's own power and out the door. Where it sat for the better part of 30 minutes running at idle. We watched the gauges, monitored the engine temp, Oil pressure, Voltage meter. etc.. All perfectly normal. (except for no heat in the cab... add that to the list). And pulled it back into the garage, finding a reasonably large transmission puddle where it was parked. No worries.. were in too good a mood, and we might have overfilled it, and it's going up on the lift for an oil change anyway. (the transmission pan, which was torqued yesterday during the filter change was not tightened down.. first time up to temp loosen the bolts?)

Oil had some light water in it. .nothing as much as we were thinking. Might be the shortest life oil ever changed.. was in a running car for under 30 minutes. Anyone need a good deal on Lightly used Mobile 1 5000 5w30? ok.. reinstall the Front X brace from yesterday and take a look at that Rear Diff..... ok.. if the little blue fuel line cap was going to frustrate three guys.. (two of them REALLY good wrench turners).. you can imagine what that damn 1/2" square drive fill point, you know the one 7/8's of an inch from the rear suspension arm was going to do. Knuckle.. nope.. 360 adjustable.. Nope. straight 1/2 drive.. nope. finally found a rather old.. very flat 1/2 drive that was likely from the 60's. he of the 5" handle variety. holy.. close. we can get it on... and with the help of a breaker bar got it loose. However.. you can only turn it out so far and you won't get the wrench out.. nor reverse the ratchet. I bit of luck, a few choice words later and NOT drilling a 2" hole in the trunk like Rick wanted to do. (in Fairness, he did get the plug out after we told him no). we have oil leaking from the fill point. hmm not good.. as that means water in the diff. (and I had not bought a gasket, and the local shops don't have one). hmmm ok... shop vac and rubber hose time. So we did.. for around a hour.. moving the hose every time we stopped pulling fluid. even swapped to a 1/4" line in an attempt to get everything out we could.. rotated the tires, (ohh and we did pull the rear sway bar off, but that was all we moved). Finally we got tired of the constant hum of the vac and filled the rear back up, Struggle with the bolt a bit, but we had a technique and it worked. Sway bar reinstalled.

Now what? we have a running motor. Transmission with fresh Fluid/filter. New heavy oil in the diff.. well obviously it's time to put it on the road!! (clear roads, just COLD) Pulled the quarter window relays, jumpered the windows back up and pulled her out of the garage and let it idle until back up to temp.. smoking a bit.. but with all we've found.. kinda expected that.

first drive.. 4 miles down and back. 1/4 mile gravel road, then a 55mph rural highway.. turn around in town and come back. Rick riding shotgun as we turned the car around and looked over the supercharger of the moving car. Gravel on this road is loose, but the 8" fronts and 10" rears slid less then my pickup... Backtop.. turn right. Nothing crazy now.. as much as I want to.. just ease it up to 30 - 40... 50.. DAMN that wind is cold... Exhaust pipes billowing smoke under any load... we know there was water in the mufflers... steam? oil? carbon? water burning off the oil? hmm gauges perfect, just like before.. 55 - 60... 70.... city limits... turn around and repeat.. get back to the garage. Randy jumps in.. back down the gravel. North this time.. a bit more aggressive.. let it climb to 2700 rpm, shift.. back off. 5 miles up.. top speed 70. steering is amazing.. tight as any sports car i've ever been in.. every bump, every pebble is felt through the bald P-zero's on the back end. but.. rock solid, no drift,, no sway.. just lots and lots of smoke. Into town.. pull over.. let Randy drive. .. back on the highway... and Randy puts his foot in it.. 4500-5000-5200 RPM. Transmission handles it perfectly.. no hard shifts, no sound.. just hit the next gate and go. back into the garage before we know it. 18 miles on the OD, Clock works and surprise.. so do the electric heated seats!.. (with no heat from the blower, this is HUGE! ). Smoke seems to be less then the first 10 miles.. scratch our heads.. to much we don't know.. engine sounds perfect.. very little smoke at idle.. only under load. Gotta believe in it. Clear the engine codes with an ODBII reader and see what happens!

Load up.. debate putting the cat on the trailer for the ride home.. hell no.. put it back on the road..no hood required!! (35 miles to home). Crawl in, feel that leather seat and turn it back around and bring the 00R home.

Half way home, with Rick following in the pickup the smoke was nearly gone.. By the time we hit the driveway... there is none. I mean.. not even -10 below condensation.. that Cat is BACK!.
On a side note, heat .. kinda came on part way home.. I know because crap kept coating the windshield on the inside.. (good thing shop rags were with me!). and while the selector isn't completely working. (floor and dash work, motor speed adjustment works.. defrost is iffy atm). It is warm.. not 90 degree hot as selected. but not blowing outside air either.

Tomorrow I'll post my to-do list. The car is far from perfect electrically, but stage one.. mechanically is WAY ahead of schedule. (and we now think that was a VERY Wet Jaguar.. just detailed VERY well to hide it).

Hope to meet some of you on the Road, new rubber and twisty roads are in my future!!

ps.. again my thanks to the Forum and it's members.. I can't tell you how many things we've looked up, or advise we've taken to get this far.. you guys ROCK!

 

Jared,

I tried Mr. Wright Saturday....No answer but I told the Machine for the 3rd or 4th time, who I was and what I wanted but still no phone call...so I'm afraid he doesn't want to help out with the project......

The Engine sounds pretty good in the little Video! At least it's running and starting up! Be sure to change the oil several times....Well you know all that!

Good Luck and continue to listen to Fmertz, he's pretty sharp on the Computer stuff.....along with some of the other Guys......They lost me when they computerized the Points and Condenser back in the 80's!

Your message concerning the drive to town just came through the system and I wanted to be the first to congratulate you on having a running XKR......If it continues to smoke and if it's white let me know as I may have a cure of that! Hang in there, you are almost there!



Billy Clyde in Houston